Pump shed light, 240V

[curliejones]

I want to power a-ceramic socket with a 75W incandescent bulb for heat in the pump shed during freezing weather. I don’t have 120V available. The well is powered at 240V with 12-2 + G. E27 base bulbs are 230V and locally available. Keyless ceramics are rated high enough and, though opinions seem split, I’d be okay with E27 base bulb in E26 socket. I’d need a double pole single throw toggle for ON/OFF and ground metal box. What I cannot find anywhere is how to wire the fixture. Brass screw gets one hot and silver gets the other? U.S. power differs from European from the POCO, so foreign instructions for 230V have a neutral. I’ve searched far and wide and cannot find info. I want to avoid using the Ground as neutral (a no-no) and pick up only one hot. That is dangerous and is the most common solution. Only need this heat on fifteen nights a year in Louisiana. Has anyone done this? My electrical supply stocks the bulbs in 100W (230V, E27) and they say they sell those to people who only have 240V available (like me). Any confirmation from someone who has done this is appreciated.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I want to power a-ceramic socket with a 75W incandescent bulb for heat in the pump shed during freezing weather. I don’t have 120V available. The well is powered at 240V with 12-2 + G. E27 base bulbs are 230V and locally available. Keyless ceramics are rated high enough and, though opinions seem split, I’d be okay with E27 base bulb in E26 socket. I’d need a double pole single throw toggle for ON/OFF and ground metal box. What I cannot find anywhere is how to wire the fixture. Brass screw gets one hot and silver gets the other? U.S. power differs from European from the POCO, so foreign instructions for 230V have a neutral. I’ve searched far and wide and cannot find info. I want to avoid using the Ground as neutral (a no-no) and pick up only one hot. That is dangerous and is the most common solution. Only need this heat on fifteen nights a year in Louisiana. Has anyone done this? My electrical supply stocks the bulbs in 100W (230V, E27) and they say they sell those to people who only have 240V available (like me). Any confirmation from someone who has done this is appreciated.

youre mixing things into the equation that have nothing to do with what you need.

You wouldnt be connecting a neutral to the ceramic base, since the bulb is rated for 230v. Ignore the color of the screws... you would wire 2 hots to the base. and no ground since there usually isnt a ground terminal on those bases.

Thus Im not sure why you stated: "I want to avoid using the Ground as neutral (a no-no) and pick up only one hot."

BTW i would use a 250v rated industrial bulb as a 230v rated bulb will suffer a shortened life running on 240v.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

you've got two hots, so you're not going to be not using two hots for a 240V bulb. no way around that.

 

[captaindiode]

What about a 240V to 120V transformer? Then you can use a standard bulb. Do you have 240V continuously or only when the pump runs? Something like this, with appropriate fuses:

Transformer

I use a ceramic reptile heater since incandescent bulbs are hard to find and prone to burn out.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What about a 240V to 120V transformer? Then you can use a standard bulb. Do you have 240V continuously or only when the pump runs? Something like this, with appropriate fuses:

Transformer

I use a ceramic reptile heater since incandescent bulbs are hard to find and prone to burn out.

why complicate things with a transformer? remember KISS

 

[35Ford]

Two 120v bulbs wired in series would work too.
A 240 volt utility room heater with a thermostat would be a good option.

 

[PoorUB]

I want to power a-ceramic socket with a 75W incandescent bulb for heat in the pump shed during freezing weather. I don’t have 120V available. The well is powered at 240V with 12-2 + G. E27 base bulbs are 230V and locally available. Keyless ceramics are rated high enough and, though opinions seem split, I’d be okay with E27 base bulb in E26 socket. I’d need a double pole single throw toggle for ON/OFF and ground metal box. What I cannot find anywhere is how to wire the fixture. Brass screw gets one hot and silver gets the other? U.S. power differs from European from the POCO, so foreign instructions for 230V have a neutral. I’ve searched far and wide and cannot find info. I want to avoid using the Ground as neutral (a no-no) and pick up only one hot. That is dangerous and is the most common solution. Only need this heat on fifteen nights a year in Louisiana. Has anyone done this? My electrical supply stocks the bulbs in 100W (230V, E27) and they say they sell those to people who only have 240V available (like me). Any confirmation from someone who has done this is appreciated.

Color me confused. You have 240 volt available. You can find 240 rated sockets. Find a double pole, single throw, (DPST), switch rated for 240 volt and wire it up.

You are on the USA, why bring up the European voltage info, it has nothing to do with your situation. You don't have a neutral in the USA on 240 volt, just two hots and a safety ground. One hot goes to one side of the bulb, the other hot goes to the opposite side of the bulb. The ground doesn't even come into play other than to ground your electrical boxes.

For around $50 you can buy a 400 watt strip heating element that will probably never burn out, but you will need to add a thermostat. Bulbs fail. The strip heater will need some sort of box ofr guard around it that is easily made, but it is and option to consider.

 

[The Cobbler]

I would put a 500watt 240 volt heater with a t-stat . far more reliable than a light bulb that will burn out .

 

[walta]

I am not the guy that has memorized the code book but I seem to recall it is a code violation to wire lighting circuits for more than 120 volts in residencies. Commercial or industrial location would be allowed.

Note when the lamps burns out it seems likely the next person will stick in a 120volt bulb without looking at the old bulb. That bulb is likely to fit because the sockets you selected are almost the same as the standard socket. Of course they will be surprised when the new bulb burns very brightly for 3 seconds and burns out.

It may not be cheap but the smart move is to comply with the code. Spend the money for a neutral wire or skip the light.

Walta

 

[u2slow]

I would argue a pump shed is a not a residence.

I would most likely do the small baseboard. I have seen them down to 300W.

If I wanted to use lamps.... I'd probably do the series-circuit trick in order to use old bulbs I have. I also know a SPST switch would do the job. I don't always follow Code for utility areas at home... my space, my rules (or lack thereof).

 

[klassenl]

I would argue a pump shed is a not a residence.

I would most likely do the small baseboard. I have seen them down to 300W.

If I wanted to use lamps.... I'd probably do the series-circuit trick in order to use old bulbs I have. I also know a SPST switch would do the job. I don't always follow Code for utility areas at home... my space, my rules (or lack thereof).

Post of the day.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Code is for the weak.

Post of the day.

 

[billconner]

I wonder how much longer you will be able to get incandescent bulbs and the LED won't do much for heat.

What size is circuit and what's size is pump? Wondering if bulb/heater is on when pump starts if it will handle it.

 

[u2slow]

What size is circuit and what's size is pump? Wondering if bulb/heater is on when pump starts if it will handle it.

It's a valid point, but you're going to notice a nuisance trip from your lack of water. Try again with less wattage. Something to be said if the circuit is sized that tight already.

 

[billconner]

I was really thinking if a 300 watt heater was used. A 60 to 100 watt a lamp not so I much.

 

[Showkey]

10 w/ft 240v Mid-Temp Self Reg Heat Cable Tinned Copper Braid

10 watts/ft 240 volt mid temperature, self regulating heat trace cable with tinned copper braid.

www.heatingelementsplus.com

 

[PoorUB]

Or this, on a thermostat. Aw hell, 120 volt!
https://www.zoro.com/tempco-heating-element-4-in-l-crr00010/i/G2039493/feature-product?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&gclid=Cj0KCQiAq7COBhC2ARIsANsPATEaeDY4V4PwCqFaNddSt4RLbcJhOCSXljoQJ2t1Sn3woNtadFAYva8aAlGVEALw_wcB&fqc:category=30/4585/18087/18095/7646

 

[PoorUB]

10 w/ft 240v Mid-Temp Self Reg Heat Cable Tinned Copper Braid

10 watts/ft 240 volt mid temperature, self regulating heat trace cable with tinned copper braid.

www.heatingelementsplus.com

But that heats only what it is attached too. He has a tiny pump hose, just heat the whole thing!

 

[Syberia]

Ceramic heat emitters like for reptiles come in 240 volts and all sorts of wattages. They screw into a light socket and should not burn out.

 

[wes73]

Sounds like a perfect use of a subpanel. I'd put in a 6 space 240 subpanel with 3 breakers (smallest I know of). One 20 amp breaker for the well. Two 15 amp breakers for the lights, one on each leg. Then add two light fixtures, one on each 15 amp breaker. This will give you redundancy and balance the load. (As long as both bulbs are same wattage) This will also give you a disconnect in the pump house for the well if you currently do not have one and allow you to still use the lights with the pump turned off when servicing. You could even add a forth circuit for an outlet to be used during servicing as well.

 

[mike93lx]

Sounds like a perfect use of a subpanel. I'd put in a 6 space 240 subpanel with 3 breakers (smallest I know of). One 20 amp breaker for the well. Two 15 amp breakers for the lights, one on each leg. Then add two light fixtures, one on each 15 amp breaker. This will give you redundancy and balance the load. (As long as both bulbs are same wattage) This will also give you a disconnect in the pump house for the well if you currently do not have one and allow you to still use the lights with the pump turned off when servicing. You could even add a forth circuit for an outlet to be used during servicing as well.

How would you get 120v without a neutral?

He either needs to use 240v bulbs or pull a neutral

 

[wes73]

How would you get 120v without a neutral?

He either needs to use 240v bulbs or pull a neutral

I assumed...my fault...that when he said "The well is powered at 240V with 12-2 + G" it was standard 12-2 (Hot, Neutral, bare) plus a separate insulated ground. 4 wires which could be marked and used accordingly.

 

[PoorUB]

12-2 + G

sounds like 3 wire to me!

 

[u2slow]

sounds like 3 wire to me!

Psst... bare conductors are not in the count!

 

[Dumber than lumber]

OP is going to make that pump house real homey for the alligators.

 

[PoorUB]

Psst... bare conductors are not in the count!

Yes I know, but the OP said 12-2 and ground, that is three wires. The post I quoted came up with four wire some how.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I assumed...my fault...that when he said "The well is powered at 240V with 12-2 + G" it was standard 12-2 (Hot, Neutral, bare) plus a separate insulated ground. 4 wires which could be marked and used accordingly.

Why would there be an insulated ground to a well pump?

Are you thinking of a pool pump?

 

[wes73]

Like I said...i assumed 12-2 + G was standard 12-2 (Hot, Neutral, bare) plus a separate ground, which i assumed was insulated if separate. I know 12-2 does not include the bare wire in the count. This is why I, again assumed, the ground was separate. I'll concede and let's focus back on the OP. Cheers!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Like I said...i assumed 12-2 + G was standard 12-2 (Hot, Neutral, bare) plus a separate ground, which i assumed was insulated if separate. I know 12-2 does not include the bare wire in the count. This is why I, again assumed, the ground was separate. I'll concede and let's focus back on the OP. Cheers!

have you ever read the embossing on the jacket of NM-b? It says 12/2 w/ Gr

The reason for the labeling of ground is because really old versions of NM did not have a ground wire....

 

[TractorJeff]

This is interesting reading for a "KISS" problem!
FWIW: We used 240 volt bulbs in pump houses for years. When we needed to keep Chicken Waters from freezing, we suspended a 100 watt 240 bulb in the Water and plugged it in a 120 volt outlet. Never broke as long as the bulb climatized before turning it on!

 

[u3b3rg33k]

This is interesting reading for a "KISS" problem!
FWIW: We used 240 volt bulbs in pump houses for years. When we needed to keep Chicken Waters from freezing, we suspended a 100 watt 240 bulb in the Water and plugged it in a 120 volt outlet. Never broke as long as the bulb climatized before turning it on!

if it broke i bet the fried chicken was delicious!

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, the 240 Volt Reptile Heater will probably be your better solution.