Punch and Flare Die Question

[Rockable]

I posted this on the HAMB but only got one reply. So, here goes.

I'm thinking about buying some Mittler Bros punch and flare dies. These use a draw bolt to punch and flare the hole. Obviously, you need to lubricate the dies for best operation. Drawing these in with a ratchet seems slow. Has anyone used a battery powered impact wrench to draw them down? How well does that work?

Also, I have a Blackhawk porta power. Does anyone make a readily available and reasonably priced hydraulic actuator that accepts the 1/2" unc draw bolts that i could use with these? Any experience comparing hydraulic vs impact wrench? Which is best? Thanks!

 

[Firebrick43]

I think you will need a lot less lube than you think, only needed on the bolt head and threads if using the bolt to actually draw the dies together. A friend has a set and I have used them, we both do it in a press and don't use any lube.

Multiple companies make hollow cylinders that a piece of all thread can be used with. Some under 100 bucks for import, just search "hollow portapower cylinder"

I dont know if long term use of an impact would be a good idea. Its easy work but the few times I did use a bolt to draw together in tight areas its the sudden stop I would be worried about when the flare die bottoms out that might damage the threads if you werent real good and fast on the trigger.

 

[no704]

Had a set of panel punches that used an enerpac type of hydraulic pump and cylinder. Impact would probably work fine, if your threaded parts are treated as consumable.

 

[RoninB4]

-Some photos would help so I don't have to go searching the internet.

 

[cvairwerks]

Greenlee has a hydraulic pulling head for their dies. Should be able to use it on anything with the same bolt size and thread.

 

[whateg01]

Dimple dies?

As others have mentioned, threaded tools like this generally don't like impact for long-term use. This would apply to pullers as well. I use my dimple dies in a hydraulic press with no lube. My greenlee punches for electrical work also get used with no lube. I use a hydraulic cylinder for the greenlee punches

 

[Rockable]

Greenlee has a hydraulic pulling head for their dies. Should be able to use it on anything with the same bolt size and thread.

It's expensive!

 

[whateg01]

It's expensive!

This one is similar to mine except mine has a hose. I don't know which I prefer. Each is nicer in some instances.

Yescom 1/2" to 2" Hydraulic Knockout Punch Set 8 Ton 6-Die Metal Hole Puncher Electrical Conduit Cutter KO Tool Kit - Amazon.com

Yescom 1/2" to 2" Hydraulic Knockout Punch Set 8 Ton 6-Die Metal Hole Puncher Electrical Conduit Cutter KO Tool Kit - Amazon.com

a.co

 

[OccupantRJ]

I use an impact on my chassis punches on sheet steel, and oil the bolt beforehand. Doing it with the impact is like a first ****** experience, leaves you smiling.

 

[Beerhippie]

It's expensive!

It's Greenlee!

 

[Beerhippie]

I use an impact on my chassis punches on sheet steel, and oil the bolt beforehand. Doing it with the impact is like a first ****** experience, leaves you smiling.

Hmm... now I wonder about using an impact for my knock-out punches....

 

[OccupantRJ]

Hmm... now I wonder about using an impact for my knock-out punches....

Same thing?

 

[whateg01]

Same thing?

Are you asking if that's a knockout punch? Yes.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Are you asking if that's a knockout punch? Yes.

I was actually asking if he considered it the same thing. I know them by both names.

 

[Beerhippie]

I was actually asking if he considered it the same thing. I know them by both names.

I think of chassis punches as rectangular or square, generally DIN-sized punches. The round ones are knockouts.

 

[Rockable]

double post

 

[Rockable]

Same thing?

A punch and flare die set does 2 things, it punches the hole, like a knockout die. Then it flares the hole to make it strong and visually more appealing. Therefor, a knockout die is half of a P&F die set.

 

[dscheidt]

A punch and flare die set does 2 things, it punches the hole, like a knockout die. Then it flares the hole to make it strong and visually more appealing. Therefor, a knockout die is half of a P&F die set.

dont know if long term use of an impact would be a good idea. Its easy work but the few times I did use a bolt to draw together in tight areas its the sudden stop I would be worried about when the flare die bottoms out that might damage the threads if you weren

What about an air or battery ratchet? Run it in until the ratchet stalls, then gronk it the rest of the way by hand.

 

[Firebrick43]

What about an air or battery ratchet? Run it in until the ratchet stalls, then gronk it the rest of the way by hand.

I think that would be better for at least the die. I don’t have but a small Milwaukee 3/8 ratchet not a 1/2” but you may not even need to “Gronk” it the rest of the way with a 1/2” air/battery ratchet.

 

[LeeG]

I have the Swag offroad dimple dies and a few of the Mittler Brothers punch and bead dies. I usually use my HF Punch Driver set to actually use them, although I have used a ratchet at times. I had heard that impact wrenches were not a good choice for this application, but have no real experience to back it up, other than it seems pretty similar to a screw jack, and impact wrenches are usually not recommended for that application.

Lee

 

[Rockable]

I have the Swag offroad dimple dies and a few of the Mittler Brothers punch and bead dies. I usually use my HF Punch Driver set to actually use them, although I have used a ratchet at times. I had heard that impact wrenches were not a good choice for this application, but have no real experience to back it up, other than it seems pretty similar to a screw jack, and impact wrenches are usually not recommended for that application.

Lee

Did one of the studs that came with the HF Punch Driver set fit the MB dies?