Push-On Plumbing Fittings

[bczygan]

We all know about Sharkbite.

But I just ran into Blue Hawk fittings at Lowes. Cheaper, and some marked down right now.

http://www.lowes.com/Search=sharkbite?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=sharkbite#!

Just as good?

Interchangeable?

Works with anyone's PEX?

Any other makers?

Did Sharkbite's patent run out? Or are they licensing to others or making them for others?

Bill

 

[zendriver]

If you put them on and they don't leak, they probably don't leak.

The technology does not look like rocket science anyway.

I'd use them.

 

[mmb617]

Interesting you should bring this up as I had the same questions. I only needed a couple fittings so I went for the genuine Shark Bites as I feel they are a proven commodity, but I'll be watching to see what others say about the Lowes version.

 

[capww8]

I used a bunch of them in my kitchen remodel, I was meticulous to route plumbing so that the non-crimp fittings were located in serviceable areas behind false cabinet backs, or in the crawlspace.

Talked with my plumber about it later, and he said he has switched almost entirely to these types of tool-less fittings for rough work, and has never replaced a single one... that made me feel better about the whole thing.

 

[Richard Cranium]

They are made by a different company but works just a well.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Don't know about this brand, but we have had Sharkbites leak quite a bit in an RV setting. Consequently, we do not use them or any variants. We have had good luck with compression fittings if you want to stay tool less.

 

[SH7mi]

I am old school and will take the extra time to solder every time. Same goes for painting, prime first then paint.

 

[Rookie2]

When used with pex ,there should be an insert that goes inside the pex to keep it from collapsing. On copper make sure you use a sharp cutter. If it is dull you will end up rolling the copper tube down in diameter which will leak.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I've used Watts quick-connectors on copper and PEX, so far so good.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_sub.asp?catId=71&parCat=138

 

[joeysh03]

I've used them and had to pull them back off and reuse and have had no problem. I've used there shut off valves too

 

[rharman]

Maybe I'm just old school but I don't trust those things at all. Can't shake the feeling they've been made so Joe Homeowner can feel like a plumber.

 

[JonnyMac]

Make good use of them... the douchebag plumbing industry here in australia can't be bothered to distinguish between water and gas so there are no "water only" connection systems on general sale due to the unions writing the regulations!!
Everything is solder based connections unless its garden/landscaping type connections!!

 

[finn]

Cars pretty much transitioned to push fittings thirty years ago.
A building seems like a much less severe environment, so it seems logical the a quick connect fitting would work there.

 

[bczygan]

Maybe I'm just old school but I don't trust those things at all. Can't shake the feeling they've been made so Joe Homeowner can feel like a plumber.

I think they actually save Joe Homeowner, who couldn't solder a joint to save his life.

Bill

 

[rieferman]

Don't know about this brand, but we have had Sharkbites leak quite a bit in an RV setting. Consequently, we do not use them or any variants.

Can you give more details please? I haven't read or heard of failures with these types of products very often, so I am interested to hear more about the particulars on your scenarios.

 

[Whitworth]

Those brass fittings work good, I've used them for temporary connections when updating my plumbing. There's another version that's plastic, sold alongside those which I've had leak on me. Not sure the brand name. Another good one is a screw together type plastic fitting by Vanguard. I haven't seen those for a while, maybe Lowes doesn't carry the line anymore. But they give a good solid feel when installed.

 

[JoeFin]

Maybe I'm just old school but I don't trust those things at all. Can't shake the feeling they've been made so Joe Homeowner can feel like a plumber.

No your not "Just Ol' school" your pretty dam smart. You couldn't pay me to put PEX in my house.

Plumbing systems are engineered by Mechanical Engineers for a reason. Every time water is turned On and Off or the toilet flushed in your house the plumbing system is subjected to mechanical forces. Additionally PEX doesn't play well with the small amounts of Chlorine in most municipal water systems.

And given PEX is color coded for the "Craftsmanship Impaired" I have little doubt the installations are more then questionable.

Copper is STILL an upgrade when buying a home for a reason

 

[LumpyMusic]

Cars pretty much transitioned to push fittings thirty years ago.

Example? I can't think of a push fitting anywhere in any of my vehicles except for maybe vacuum lines.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Example? I can't think of a push fitting anywhere in any of my vehicles except for maybe vacuum lines.


Sgt Lumpy

Maybe not as far back as 30 years, but just about all trans cooler, fuel and A/C lines are.

Tommy

 

[Norcal]

No your not "Just Ol' school" your pretty dam smart. You couldn't pay me to put PEX in my house.

Plumbing systems are engineered by Mechanical Engineers for a reason. Every time water is turned On and Off or the toilet flushed in your house the plumbing system is subjected to mechanical forces. Additionally PEX doesn't play well with the small amounts of Chlorine in most municipal water systems.

And given PEX is color coded for the "Craftsmanship Impaired" I have little doubt the installations are more then questionable.

Copper is STILL an upgrade when buying a home for a reason

Copper has not been subject to recalls, nor do you have to worry about rodents, or be careful about exposing to sunlight, don't care for CSST either, black iron is still the best.

 

[59 wagon man]

push to connect fittings have been around for long before sharkbites hit the street. i know my fox body mustang has them so thats 26 yrs old . John Guest has made ptc fittings for years for the plumbing industry, they just arent very popular. Think about it do you really want to pay a tradesman who uses them? As a plumber who does service work while i do love copper it sure would be easier to troubleshoot sometimes if it was color coded like pex

 

[nadogail]

As an owner and operator of several rental houses, I have switched to Shark Bights for all of my water heater change outs.

I have also successfully used them for main water service line repairs.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Can you give more details please? I haven't read or heard of failures with these types of products very often, so I am interested to hear more about the particulars on your scenarios.

I surmise the leaks were caused from all of the movement. Normal plumbing obviously doesn't move, and is restricted every x amount of feet. An RV doesn't have any of those requirements, and obviously it goes down the road so there is a lot of water line movement.
All of the fittings that we had leak, the metal prongs were flattened in one spot or another so I assume (you know what happens when you assume) that it was deformed, and leaked because of all the movement.

 

[94EG8]

Normally when they leak it's immediately and it's because whoever installed the fitting didn't debur the copper pipe or pex. When used properly they work great. I never noticed any difference between the Shark Bites and other brands (I've also used Tec-Tite, I'm not sure what else) I have also used them with aluminum pipe for compressed air and I haven't had an issues with leaking running 150 psi of air through them. I'm not scared of them at this point.

 

[nh_yota]

I question the long-term reliability of anything that relies on an o-ring for a seal because they can dry out and crack over time.

I'm halfway decent at soldering pipe even in tight spaces so that's my go-to method. I've used shark bite fittings a few times in the past for temporary repairs because they can be removed, but I'm not sold on using them permanently in spaces that are not easily accessible.

 

[ItsNemo]

No your not "Just Ol' school" your pretty dam smart. You couldn't pay me to put PEX in my house.

Plumbing systems are engineered by Mechanical Engineers for a reason. Every time water is turned On and Off or the toilet flushed in your house the plumbing system is subjected to mechanical forces. Additionally PEX doesn't play well with the small amounts of Chlorine in most municipal water systems.

And given PEX is color coded for the "Craftsmanship Impaired" I have little doubt the installations are more then questionable.

Copper is STILL an upgrade when buying a home for a reason

A flexible plastic tube is going to be able to withstand mechanical forces better than something rigid like copper. Hit a pex pipe a half dozen times with a hammer versus copper once, you'll see which is more durable. The colours are so you can easily see hot and cold, but they're interchangeable and they do make plain colours too. PEX needs less joints, so better flow and less places to leak from and will leak immediately unlike copper which could go some time before it springs a leak. Also PEX is quieter...every house with copper plumbing you can hear the water running clear as day, with PEX you hear the drains more than the supply. Copper is an "upgrade" because it costs more from both a materials and labour standpoint, not because it's a superior product.

Believe it or not, times change. Same reason why they don't use clay pipe for drains, better materials and methods come along.

All that said, sharkbite and similar are for the quick one off connection...not for a permanent inaccessible installation even if they're allowed to be installed that way they just cost too much. I usually only use them when connecting between copper and PEX.

 

[reader2580]

Don't know about this brand, but we have had Sharkbites leak quite a bit in an RV setting. Consequently, we do not use them or any variants. We have had good luck with compression fittings if you want to stay tool less.

Interesting, I have never heard of any Sharkbites failing in RVs. I doubt any RV manufacturers use them because of cost.

I plumbed my RV with Sharkbite and PEX pipes with no failures yet. I know plenty of others who recommend them for RVs others than price.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

^^They are certainly cost prohibitive from the factory.

 

[JRC3]

I use Sharkbite all them time. I use Watts sometimes and I've had two of those fittings leak. I crimp everything now and only use sharkbite push-ons for transitions.

Funny story, one of the Watts fittings I returned I wrote "defective" on the bag with a Sharpie. The return clerk saw it and said something like, "It's says defective right on the bag, they souldn't have put it on the shelf to start with." I explained that I wrote it so it didn't get put back on the shelf by mistake. Maybe she thought it came that way from the factory or something.

 

[dutchgray]

A flexible plastic tube is going to be able to withstand mechanical forces better than something rigid like copper. Hit a pex pipe a half dozen times with a hammer versus copper once, you'll see which is more durable. The colours are so you can easily see hot and cold, but they're interchangeable and they do make plain colours too. PEX needs less joints, so better flow and less places to leak from and will leak immediately unlike copper which could go some time before it springs a leak. Also PEX is quieter...every house with copper plumbing you can hear the water running clear as day, with PEX you hear the drains more than the supply. Copper is an "upgrade" because it costs more from both a materials and labour standpoint, not because it's a superior product.

Believe it or not, times change. Same reason why they don't use clay pipe for drains, better materials and methods come along.

All that said, sharkbite and similar are for the quick one off connection...not for a permanent inaccessible installation even if they're allowed to be installed that way they just cost too much. I usually only use them when connecting between copper and PEX.

The pex is certainly useful for long runs, we have had fittings of various makes fail over time and many that leaked when first filled, we try to avoid inaccessible joints. Various plastic pipe systems have been used here since the 70's so most of the issues have been worked out now.
We still use clay pipes for sewer for the mains under roads, with super sleeve plastic joiners, plastic pipe to connect the house usually. They have tried other materials but clay is still prefered.

 

[JoeFin]

A flexible plastic tube is going to be able to withstand mechanical forces better than something rigid like copper. Hit a pex pipe a half dozen times with a hammer versus copper once, you'll see which is more durable. The colours are so you can easily see hot and cold, but they're interchangeable and they do make plain colours too. PEX needs less joints, so better flow and less places to leak from and will leak immediately unlike copper which could go some time before it springs a leak. Also PEX is quieter...every house with copper plumbing you can hear the water running clear as day, with PEX you hear the drains more than the supply. Copper is an "upgrade" because it costs more from both a materials and labour standpoint, not because it's a superior product.

All that said, sharkbite and similar are for the quick one off connection...not for a permanent inaccessible installation even if they're allowed to be installed that way they just cost too much. I usually only use them when connecting between copper and PEX.

Try goggle for "PEX Failures" and you'll find not only is the PEX Tubing prone to failure at the connector but the chemical composure of PEX breaks down must faster then the manufactures have claimed

Engineers and other experts have debated whether the presence of chlorine on the fitting is from the residual chlorine found in most municipal water supplies. However, the concentration levels of chlorine on the failed fittings are generally found to be much higher than are expected in municipal water supplies and suggest the failure did not result simply from exposure to water.

Alternatively, traces of another corrosion-producing substance are also often discovered, which indicates the presence of flux.

Failures generally occur on the hot water supply piping and the failed clamp is often connected to a copper adapter fitting. More specifically, this adapter fitting is the point where copper pipes transition to PEX. Therefore, one side of the fitting has a soldered joint, and the other side uses the stainless steel clamp. The increased temperature of the water accelerates the rate of corrosion.

http://www.claimsjournal.com/magazines/special-report/2013/02/18/223085.htm

Problem with assuming the flexibility of PEX makes it less prone to mechanical failure is forgetting the tubing does act as the moment against the connector

So No, nothing in the arguments you've presented have changed my mind towards PEX

 

[ItsNemo]

Try goggle for "PEX Failures" and you'll find not only is the PEX Tubing prone to failure at the connector but the chemical composure of PEX breaks down must faster then the manufactures have claimed







Problem with assuming the flexibility of PEX makes it less prone to mechanical failure is forgetting the tubing does act as the moment against the connector

So No, nothing in the arguments you've presented have changed my mind towards PEX

Try googling just about anything + "failure" and you'll come up with thousands of results, including copper pipe. In my opinion both copper and PEX are equally good at acting as plumbing in a house and as such I'll happily take the less expensive one.

 

[jack stand]

I had well water, mildly acidic as it turns out. (no bowl staining or other indicators) The copper wore thin and started leaking. Got replaced with cpvc, that was 20 years ago. There's nothing prettier than a nice copper job, and pride of a neat installation, (you can only do so much with plastic) but alternates do have their place.

 

[aar0s]

We sell the **** out of the press on "shark bite" style fittings. They work with copper, cpvc as well as pex. In the few years and hundreds of fittings that I've sold to home owners and plumbers both I've only had two come back and I have a feeling that it was operator error as to why they failed. Most of the ones we sell are the removable kind, if they do leak the pipe can be pulled out and checked for a square cut and burrs.

 

[Whitworth]

No your not "Just Ol' school" your pretty dam smart. You couldn't pay me to put PEX in my house.

Plumbing systems are engineered by Mechanical Engineers for a reason. Every time water is turned On and Off or the toilet flushed in your house the plumbing system is subjected to mechanical forces. Additionally PEX doesn't play well with the small amounts of Chlorine in most municipal water systems.

And given PEX is color coded for the "Craftsmanship Impaired" I have little doubt the installations are more then questionable.

Copper is STILL an upgrade when buying a home for a reason

I felt the same way too, until moving out of the northeast and down south. There's something about the well water here, either acidity or the considerable amount of sediment, that leads to holes as big as match stick heads in copper pipe. A copper installation (yes, type L ) has a lifespan of 10-15 years before problems develope.
Adding more labor and more materials costs for copper doesn't help either. PEX is very accommodating for feeding pipe ( great for retrofits) and for minimizing connections.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Here in town, when they replace your water service from the main to the inside of your house its pix. No choice!

Capt. Chrysler

 

[Roberts210]

I am old school and will take the extra time to solder every time. Same goes for painting, prime first then paint.

Ditto that. Mee too.

 

[493mike]

As a retired steamfitter/ licensed plumber/ estimator I have watched for years the skill needed to install piping systems being lessened. This lowers the costs for labor. The opposite is true for material costs, the material/ labor costs are calculated to come just under the older, higher skilled methods. This results in less money for the installer-more money for the manufacturers. No wonder wages are stagnant!
Mike

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

I made my living soldering and brazing pipe for many years. I am not great with a torch (compared to many of the guys I work with), but seem to amaze the uninitiated, lol.

I use these on occasion. The house we bought a few months ago is all copper, done by my previous service manager (he built it). I had to replace the well tank, and the pluming was basically on the floor. I could have soldered it, but for ease and time, yea, I cheated and used sharkbites.

Many pros do the same in residential applications. Time is money. When I worked for a mechanical contractor who had a large plumbing install business but no service plumbing department (mostly process plumbing thank God) we used a pro-press. That thing was cool. No waiting to drain out a 3" main.

Time is money.

 

[John T]

We all know about Sharkbite.

But I just ran into Blue Hawk fittings at Lowes. Cheaper, and some marked down right now.

http://www.lowes.com/Search=sharkbi...ogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=sharkbite#!

Just as good?

Interchangeable?

Works with anyone's PEX?

Any other makers?

Did Sharkbite's patent run out? Or are they licensing to others or making them for others?

Bill

I recently installed a new kitchen sink/faucet etc. and had to reconfigure all the plumbing

I soldered most of it with copper
But the plumbing house gave me one of those to use for a dishwasher shutoff

I was a little leery when I first saw it

But they swore it would work great.

And it turns out they were right.

I will use them again if I ever have to do any plumbing.

EZ-PZ