Push-On Plumbing Fittings

[dave89iroc]

Example? I can't think of a push fitting anywhere in any of my vehicles except for maybe vacuum lines.


Sgt Lumpy

heater hoses, fuel lines, trans cooler lines, brake booster vacuum lines, even some radiator hoses

 

[Rookie2]

Big trucks use similar air line fittings.

 

[Thezapper]

Just for a test I used a 3/4 union shark bite on a compressor airline setup that works 6 days a week for the past 5 years. Flexible copper to ridgid copper. It even has a airline oiler. 5 years and going strong. Sometimes I even spin the fitting to see if I can make it fail but it's standing the test of time so far. On that line we don't run less than 150 psi.

 

[Dustball]

In my automated machinery job, push to connect fittings are used everywhere. On occasion when doing machine testing, we'll use a tank of nitrogen. I remember one time someone wasn't paying attention to the regulator on the nitrogen tank and put 600 psi through the 1/2" polyurethane tubing. The tubing split lengthwise but the push to connect fitting was just fine.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think they actually save Joe Homeowner, who couldn't solder a joint to save his life.

If it came down to that, I would still be living, but there would be way too much solder in the joint and half of the building might have burned down !

Like most things in life, "practice makes perfect". It also probably one of those thing s that after you have done it 1000 times, you can do it again without thinking !


Not sure why, but compression fitting never caught on in the US. YES, COMPRESSION FITTINGS WORK ON HARD COOPER PIPE ! They are widely used in EU, probably because they don't like open flames in houses. YES, YOU CAN REMOVE THE FERRULE (or in EU speak "olive") WITH THE PROPER TOOL !

If I ever have to re-plumb a bathroom/kitchen again I'll use PEX with those 90° copper stubs. They come with the end sealed so you can pressure test without plugs.

 

[cbogg]

I put them on the lines on my water heater. I have 18" of copper as required, then two sharkbite full flow shutoffs, two 24" lengths of pex , and two more sharkbites. After having to reconfigure the plumbing vent and gas lines for the new shorter tank (had to go from a tall 22 year old 50 to a short 40 because the "new and improved" tanks have vastly different dimensions and would have resulted to in about a. 3" vertical rise to the first 90 in the vent which is against code so I had to go to a short). This way when the new tank fails in the next 7-10 years it'll take me longer to go buy a new one and drag it downstairs than it will to replace it as opposed to the afternoon this one took. I periodically spin the valves as they're on the straight one to keep the o-rings from developing inherent flats spots. Not worried as much on the 90s as they have less potential movement. I also open and close the valves once in awhile, they're ball not gate so I'm not worried about them seizing like the old gate valves did but it can't hurt. As far as soldering goes, I'm not bad. I don't get excess solder inside (easy to see when making water heater stubs and stuff. Will occasionally be too slow in wiping a joint and leave more of a booger than I'd like. But in this case I wanted future replacement to be easier. I used the sharkbite brand as opposed to the blue hawk as due to the minor difference in price, 1-2$ each, the sharkbites seemed the better product. The seemed more substantial, more brass, the ends seemed better designed, less flimsy. The blue hawk may work just as well but the sharkbite at a minimum had better perceived quality. Went in super easy. Were leak free at installation and are still going strong 6 months later. With any luck when I replace this thing all I'll need is the 1.50 release tool and a few dollar o-ring kit and they'll go right back in service.

 

[99LeCouch]

I used Sharkbite fittings and PEX to install a fridge water line. Went in easy, like Legos for plumbing. Spent more time measuring than installing.

 

[Sharpest]

Not sure why, but compression fitting never caught on in the US. YES, COMPRESSION FITTINGS WORK ON HARD COOPER PIPE ! They are widely used in EU, probably because they don't like open flames in houses. YES, YOU CAN REMOVE THE FERRULE (or in EU speak "olive") WITH THE PROPER TOOL !

If I ever have to re-plumb a bathroom/kitchen again I'll use PEX with those 90° copper stubs. They come with the end sealed so you can pressure test without plugs.

Uh...what? I've been building homes for four years in South Texas and every plumber I've come across uses PEX line with the above pictured elbows for top-outs and nothing but compression fittings for trim-out. The most common source of leaks in this system is punctures in the PEX where it comes up through the concrete. I've done about half and half plumbing through the slab and over head, all of which with PEX. I've had much fewer leaks plumbing over head, and they were all with crimp fittings. I've had zero leaks at fittings with the heat shrink connections. Only PEX punctures from adjusting water lines through concrete slabs to move them a few inches into wall cavities. Getting the water meter on and water pressure applied at top-out is the solution. Small punctures dont leak immediately but will usually show up within a week or two before sheetrock is hung.

 

[nh_yota]

I think a major reason why some of use are resistant to newer materials like PEX and Shark Bite fittings is because we know about the issues with polybutylene pipe, which was the "plumbing of the future" 30-40 years ago. Granted, newer plumbing materials probably go through more rigorous testing because of what happened with PB pipe, but the stigma still exists.

 

[Eahild]

TLDR: Blue hawk brass fails after 2 years of normal use.

I had to place a shutoff valve on a line that used to be for a hot water circulator when I moved in 2 years ago. Without it, hot water wouldn't ever make it out of the top of the tank (it was a foreclosure home, and the bank paid some jack plumber to "plumb", so there were several things wrong with the plumbing). I was highly recommended these fittings, blue hawk to be exact. So I cut the copper, cleaned and de-burred, installed... no leaks for 2 years.

Well, before heading out to work last night, I hear the water running in the laundry room and assume the washer is running... except it is 11:30pm...everyone is asleep, so I check it out. Water is spraying across the room. No, not past the gasket, but right through the brass. It completely corroded apart. I shut and drained the line. As soon as I started trying to move it, the brass split in half. The copper in the house, as well as the shutoff outside, are all fine and now 30yrs old, but this brass rotted in 2 years! Soldered on copper caps today. I am not going to mess with, or recommend these fitting ever again!

FYI, Blue Hawk has a 50yr warranty on these, as long as it was installed correctly.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Example? I can't think of a push fitting anywhere in any of my vehicles except for maybe vacuum lines.


Sgt Lumpy

Ford has used push on A/C and fuel fittings for over 20 years ! Maybe 40.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If it is all PEX, I would use PEX fitting with which ever crimp.

EU has used compression fitting on soft and hard copper for many years (safer for retro fit; no open flame). These cost less than SharBites. The ferrule is removable with the proper tool.

I think a special fitting is required to transition from compression to PEX crimp.

 

[Keel]

A flexible plastic tube is going to be able to withstand mechanical forces better than something rigid like copper. Hit a pex pipe a half dozen times with a hammer versus copper once, you'll see which is more durable. The colours are so you can easily see hot and cold, but they're interchangeable and they do make plain colours too. PEX needs less joints, so better flow and less places to leak from and will leak immediately unlike copper which could go some time before it springs a leak. Also PEX is quieter...every house with copper plumbing you can hear the water running clear as day, with PEX you hear the drains more than the supply. Copper is an "upgrade" because it costs more from both a materials and labour standpoint, not because it's a superior product.

Believe it or not, times change. Same reason why they don't use clay pipe for drains, better materials and methods come along.

All that said, sharkbite and similar are for the quick one off connection...not for a permanent inaccessible installation even if they're allowed to be installed that way they just cost too much. I usually only use them when connecting between copper and PEX.

Anyone remember the plastic pipes used in r.v.'s etc that after time was found to cause health issues..
What are people with a house full of this pex going to do in 10-15 years and it is found to cause the same thing..
Sorry no thanks,, puff puff pass.

 

[bixxjs]

I used push fit throughout our house remodel,as I've mentioned before push fit is standard in industry for air and water.
It's great that some people still use copper pipe and solder the joints but technology has moved on and there's better and easier products now on the market.

 

[JRC3]

Anyone remember the plastic pipes used in r.v.'s etc that after time was found to cause health issues..
What are people with a house full of this pex going to do in 10-15 years and it is found to cause the same thing..
Sorry no thanks,, puff puff pass.

Too vague, what specific pipe are you talking about?

Well you can start by not drinking it. The same goes for lead and copper pipes as the protective layer that quickly develops on the inside of those pipes can dissolve and cause the metals to leach into the water...Ever hear of a town called Flint, MI? Low pH will also cause metals to dissolve and leach.

Your best bet is to filter anything you consume with multistage reverse osmosis. That water is then stored in a tank lined with butyl rubber, like chewing gum. It is also fed to the faucet with polyethylene tubing and polypropylene fittings, the same plastics used for pitchers, cups, milk jugs...For many, many years.

Cross-linked pex is probably plenty safe though, it is certified by the NSF for drinking water. http://www.nsf.org/newsroom_pdf/water_PEX_plumbing_products__faq.pdf

 

[driftpin]

I've used them during home remodeling and haven't had any issues. I wouldn't bury one in a concrete slab but I haven't had one fail. Car fuel systems use something similar don't they?

 

[JRC3]

Car fuel systems use something similar don't they?

As do transmission lines, for more than 20 years that I know. I think oil and power steering coolers do too.

 

[mikelee121]

I used a bunch of them in my remodel, I was meticulous to route plumbing so that the non-crimp fittings were located in serviceable areas behind false cabinet backs, or in the crawlspace.

Talked with my plumber about it later, and he said he has switched almost entirely to these types of tool-less fittings for rough work, and has never replaced a cheap Pedestal Sink single one... that made me feel better about the whole thing.

Hi
Elbow
Coupling
Union
Reducer
Tee
Cross

 

[krcoomer]

Lowes also has a fitting billed as the "Pro-Line". I have used a number of these one or two at a time in rental houses. A lot of the copper installed in the 70's is degrading due to galvanic corrosion from the electrical service being tied to the cold water lines. After this is corrected with a grounding rod, replacement of the offending copper with PEX has been our standard operating procedure for several years. I find it much easier to carry a few of these fittings than to have fittings, solder, flux and torch to make a simple repair. Also, PEX is about $3 for a 10' stick instead of the $27 I saw the other day for 10' of copper at HD.

 

[D1005]

While paying a plumber $50-$100 an hour to solder is all well and good, this 60 year old kid on disability can't afford one. Shelling out half a months income for a 5 minute repair is ridiculous.

I can solder, but I'm not real great at it.

Compression fittings are supposed to work, but I've had a lot of them leak. I just can't twist my body into positions to reach the fittings to tighten them properly I guess.

CPVC is ok, but can leak too if not cemented exactly right.

Then I discovered push on fittings and PEX. First Shark Bite, then off brands as they came out. Never had one leak, ever. Never had one fail, ever. Unlike just about all over forms of plumbing I've tried.

Now if you professionals who say copper and solder is the only way to go, want to start providing the materials and doing the work for free for the low income, fine. But I doubt the line will get very long. Which leaves many a homeowner on his own. Don't fault the manufacturers, nor the homeowner, for using what works very well for them, at a price they can afford.

 

[Jess]

Years ago, I used similar fittings during a basement bath reno in a place that buddy and I bought. It eventually went into rental and recently we have been clearing out a lot of old plumbing and questionable wiring. I can't remember the brand, but they worked and we never had a leak. For Sharkbites and similar, I think they are great for repairs and places it would be difficult to solder. My plumber uses them but if you are doing a full reno or build, they become too expensive. Pex with brass fittings and crimp rings are the normal for new work here.

In my 27yr old home, I have PolyB with brass fittings and crimp rings. Never had an issue, but since its a slab house, all the plumbing is in the attic. When we do a major reno on kitchen and baths, I'll redo it all in pex with home runs so no fittings are above the ceiling anywhere.

 

[JRC3]

Out of a dozen or so I don't know a single plumber who doesn't use them.

 

[manwithtools]

This is an interesting discussion. In the automation world, Push to Connect fittings and poly line have been used for 30 years or more. They carry water, air, gasses and oil. The single great advantage is the ease of line replacement. I've changed out air lies at 80 PSI without ever turning off the air. I'll grant you that this is not the preferred method, but it can be done when production demands it.

I would not have any qualms about a PEX in my house. as a matter of fact, that will be the system I use in my next home.

 

[JRC3]

That 1" Sharkbite has been there for nearly 2 years now. The well side before the CSV (cycle stop valve) sees 74-78 psi.

 

[jblnut]

I use all different types and brands of push-to-connect fittings at work with everything from oil, air, milk and water running through them.

This mess of pipes and valves has had 180 degree water running through them for the last 3 years with no issues. The pex gets mighty flexible but has been holding just fine.

This is the control side of a Lely Astronaut A3 robotic milker. Every single air line begins and ends with a push-to-connect fitting. These machines are engineered for 100% up-time with proper maintenance.

This set has had 125psi for 8 years with no issues.

The nice thing is that if there ever is an issue it's an incredibly quick and easy fix. It is very rare that we ever have a coupling or air line problem with these machines. This is the main valve block. Everything is push-to-connect.

 

[gasserdan]

Nice to see proof. Thanks for the pics that was great.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Anyone remember the plastic pipes used in r.v.'s etc that after time was found to cause health issues..
What are people with a house full of this pex going to do in 10-15 years and it is found to cause the same thing..
Sorry no thanks,, puff puff pass.

How long has it been since they stopped using full lead solder for copper piping in homes? I think full lead solder was banned in 1986.

If that is true, then most of the homes in the United States built before 1986 would have used the full lead solder on their pipes for drinking water right?

So are the people who still live/lived in those homes built before 1986 exposed to any lead poisoning?

Jim

 

[rlitman]

Anyone remember the plastic pipes used in r.v.'s etc that after time was found to cause health issues..
What are people with a house full of this pex going to do in 10-15 years and it is found to cause the same thing..
Sorry no thanks,, puff puff pass.

I don't recall that. I know of pipe systems in RVs that would burst...

Anyway, not only has PEX been around for a LONG time (just about 50 years now), the bigger issue is that polyethylene leaches far less chemicals than any other pipe system out there. PEX-A can possibly leach some stuff (though nothing considered to be even potentially bad), while PEX-B does not do that, and PEX-C does not even contain anything to leach.

If you're worried about chemicals causing health issues, you should be worried about PVC and brass. Even copper has its risks.

 

[Farrier]

I'm all for push/crimp fittings if they are fully exposed and can be readily fixed

 

[encantofred]

alot of the airbrake fittings on my bus are push to connect. i also have sharkbite fittings on my RV water system.

i use sharkbite where it makes things much easier for routing and where they might have to be removed for access.

tom

 

[gtae07]

And given PEX is color coded for the "Craftsmanship Impaired" I have little doubt the installations are more then questionable.

I take it, then, that electrical wire is "color coded for the 'craftsmanship impaired'" as well?

In any other industry, things like color-coding, labels, keyed connectors, etc. is considered a good practice to improve maintainability and reduce errors. I guess that means all the rest of us are just incompetent