Iroc-Z
Well-known member
What are your opinions on new outlets that allow you to push the wire in to lock it instead of ****** it around the screw?
Push pin outlets
- Thread starter Iroc-Z
- Start date
Depends, if all you do is stick the wires in a hole and you are done, they ****. If you push the wire in the hole and then tighten the clamp on the wire, those are great
Zrexxer
Well-known member
Whatever floats your boat, but I never felt compelled to **** an electrical component.
But talking about back-stab fixtures, this was my experience with them: Damn near caught my house on fire. The backstabbed connection started to create resistance, followed by heat, and I suspect the heat cycling made it worse and worse over time until it started sparking and just burned up.
Mickey O
Well-known member
Usually referred to as back stabbing, it's UL approved and meets NEC code, I would never do it and the new one are only for use with 14 ga, so no good for 20 amp circuits. I do have some old ones that are rated for 12 ga, still prefer a loop and screws.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Whatever floats your boat, but I never felt compelled to **** an electrical component.
But talking about back-stab fixtures, this was my experience with them: Damn near caught my house on fire. The backstabbed connection started to create resistance, followed by heat, and I suspect the heat cycling made it worse and worse over time until it started sparking and just burned up.
The wire on that switch is clearly wrapped around the screw (though not the 2/3's of the way required by code) how do you say that it was backstabbed connection?
Charles
Bevis
Well-known member
Looks like the lower one is back stabbed
Zrexxer
Well-known member
Because the wire indicated below was backstabbed into that switch, and that's where the sparking/burning started. The backstab connection became burned so badly that the wire popped out, which is how I found the problem - the circuit went dead downstream. The damaged screw terminal that you see on top was collateral damage from the heat.
Despite your willing skepticism, I do know the difference in a screw terminal and a backstab.
Attachments
Never heard of the 2/3 code?
MrMark
Well-known member
It's in there. Look under wiring methods. And that screw looks 2/3 to me. I use the needle nose and bend them all the way around. I get at least 3/4 that way.
Aceman
Well-known member
It looks to me like there was a loose screw connection on that recep. The wire on the screw is far more melted than the wire that pulled out of the back. I have a feeling when the screw connection heated up, it ruined the springs temper so the wire pulled out when you removed the device.
The closest you'll find is 110.3(B) which states to follow manufacturer's directions when installing their equipment. If the manufacturer has a requirement for 2/3-3/4 wrap then you must, but the code doesn't specifically require that.
The closest you'll find is 110.3(B) which states to follow manufacturer's directions when installing their equipment. If the manufacturer has a requirement for 2/3-3/4 wrap then you must, but the code doesn't specifically require that.
Worsedog
Well-known member
The other thing I was thinking that if it was a screwdown backstab then with both the screw and the backstab being used it did not tighten properly. Which lead to the next question, isn't there something in the code about not causing a problem downstream if a device fails? Or does that only apply to the ground circuit?
Aceman
Well-known member
That applies to the neutral of MWBC(shared neutral) circuit.
MrMark
Well-known member
I thought I saw it in the Code somewhere, maybe under aluminum wiring commentary, maybe I am imagining things. Must have been the device instructions then.
I see it in the handbook under aluminum wiring but its commentary not code.
Zrexxer
Well-known member
You can postulate any theory you like...
I was there. I'm quite certain what happened. Feel free to wire your whole house that way - there won't be any more backstabbed connections in mine.
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I love the type with the push in-screw down clamps. I try to use only industrial grade switches and outlets in my house and shop, and most of those come with that sort of thing.
I would never use the backstab kind without any screws. I can't believe UL/NEC allow that.
I would never use the backstab kind without any screws. I can't believe UL/NEC allow that.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
UL allows all kinds of ****. Never depend on UL listings. Look for Canadian, German, or European listings.
Never depend on the back stab electrical connections.
Never depend on the back stab electrical connections.
The big issue is the 2008 NEC requires "tamper resistant" receptacles in residential , so the better grade devices will be harder to find.
& stay code compliant.The nickname for backstab is "Push & Pray" push them in & pray they hold...
Agreed. There's also a bunch of electricians out there who've never read the codes. Only electrical I've worked on worse than US was a chinese machine
Do you still call it backstab if it's on the side of a breaker?
I guess the only thing worse than a 20 amp backstab breaker is a ZINSCO 20 amp backstab breaker.
Zinsco is 1 reason I have no respect for UL.
Only thing I hate worse then Zinsco/Sylvania* is Europeon electrical gear/ machines.
*Sylvania later became Challenger , which now no longer exists.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
I like the European electrical gear.
Jay H 237
Well-known member
Ahh, so that's why I never heard of them! My parents house (built 1989) has a Challenger service panel. When I saw that panel I had never even heard of that brand.
sberry
Banned
Homeline and Ch's BR was the response to Challenger, they beat them up pretty bad.
sberry
Banned
My place was wired with back stabs, they are listed for 12 wire and I was really surprised at how well they worked. When I first saw them I thought, "oh man" and checked several of them. If I recall they were a Cooper maybe? The quality of them is very good but I am with the rest of the guys here, I never install them that way and surprised code still allows them especially for feed thru.
Aceman
Well-known member
Just had a service call to an apartment with no power to part of it today. What do you know, bad backstab.
Frankbank
Member
I don't know if you guys ever saw one but Square D actually had a circuit breaker that had a stab in type connection built into it.Needless to say I replaced a few of those.
Not true. BR stands for BRYANT which was Westinghouse's residential/light commecial line, they later dropped the Bryant name in favor of Westinghouse.
Westinghouse also bought the Challenger Electrical Equipment Corp. & replaced the Challenger breakers w/ breakers of their own design & in 1994 or so,they bought the CBS television network & decided to dump all their industrail lines, so the distribution & controls was sold to Eaton Corp. who folded it into their Cutler-Hammer unit. Challenger & the Westinghouse safety switch line was sold to Thomas & Betts who renamed it T&B, after they marketed it for a few years it disappeared....
After SQ Q brought out the HOM (Homeline) panels, Cutler-Hammer & Siemens both introduced a UL "Classified" replacement for SQ D QO breakers.
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sberry
Banned
Thats all the whats and who's but out in the world where Challenger had an edge was cost, 2 contractors bidding the same 100A service saves about a hundred bucks or so by using that stuff vs QO and CH, the SQ D marketing geniuses are people I wouldn't mind having work for me. They taken over as the big brand in the box stores now and mobiles and modulars I have seen lately come with Homeline stuff as OEM, real brainstorm.
Current production SQ D QO & HOM are just cheap quality junk,compared to the prev. (Ceased production in the 80's) QO line which had a well deserved reputation for quality, a sure sign of a cheap quality install is GE, SQ D HOM, & C-H BR panels, the successors to Zinsco.
Oh, I forgot to add Murray to the list.....Current production SQ D QO & HOM are just cheap quality junk,compared to the prev. (Ceased production in the 80's) QO line which had a well deserved reputation for quality, a sure sign of a cheap quality install is GE, SQ D HOM, & C-H BR panels, the successors to Zinsco.
Don't forget the FPE stab lock breakers!
Those panels are out of production, like Zinsco they don't count, even the Canadian Federal Pioneer has ceased production.
Coach James
Well-known member
My house, built 1999, has outlets ansd switches done with push in connections. We bought the house six years ago and I've replaced at least nine, I think. All were sparking or buzzing etc. Made me nervous as can be. I've thought about replacing the others even though they haven't failed..yet. I would never use that type. Screw terminal or clamp between two plates only for me.
Coach
Coach
Any tract type, or spec built home will use back stabbed devices, older ones were better then whats out on the market now. Anything built by lowballers is going to be wired in that manner, 'cause that method is quick & cheap, that being said pigtailing & not relying on the device for the downstream connection is best practice.
Backstabbed = "Push and Pray". (Push & pray they work until the warranty expires, then it's a $ervice call).
Backstabbed = "Push and Pray". (Push & pray they work until the warranty expires, then it's a $ervice call).
burleymike
Well-known member
My parents house had an FPE panel. When they sold it the buyers could not get financing until it was replaced. I remember as a kid growing up the breakers tripped as they were supposed to when my mom revved up the microwave, toaster, and coffee pot.
The GFCI that protected the receptacle for the patio did not. Being a know it all kid I had to stick some wire in that outlet and see if my dad was telling me the truth that a shock hurts. GFCI never did trip, not even when my friend tried it on a dare.
When we bought this place it had an FPE panel. When I replaced it I was not super surprised to see some burned breakers. That was the least of the electrical problems this house has seen. I could write a book about it.
The GFCI that protected the receptacle for the patio did not. Being a know it all kid I had to stick some wire in that outlet and see if my dad was telling me the truth that a shock hurts. GFCI never did trip, not even when my friend tried it on a dare
. When we bought this place it had an FPE panel. When I replaced it I was not super surprised to see some burned breakers. That was the least of the electrical problems this house has seen. I could write a book about it.