Put NM connector with screw side inside box????

[enochian]

Someone said to put the screw side inside the box, because you can then loosen the screws if necessary.

 

[BrandonV]

NEC and UL require following the manufacturers instructions.

Not sure I'd deviate.

 

[Innovate1]

Normally I put them outside. I have put them inside a few times - such as on some 4' tube fixtures where I put a box up for lights and then put the fixture over that. Hard to tighten if it's above and then push the wire into a small box. But in hindsight I didn't need the box and could have just put the clamp on top (outside) and pushed the extra wire into the ceiling. So put them outside unless there is a reason to put them inside - just being able to loosen then later in most situations isn't a good reason IMHO.

 

[mike93lx]

"someone"?

Just install it as designed. Why would you need to loosen it?

 

[wssix99]

This has come up before... but doesn't make sense and doesn't pay off. If the wire is installed correctly, it should be stapled inside the wall and loosening the clamp doesn't get one anything.

Having the clamp inside-out also puts sharp edges inside the box and reduces the ability to fill, which are all bad.

 

[enochian]

NEC and UL require following the manufacturers instructions.

Not sure I'd deviate.

Just install it as designed. Why would you need to loosen it?

I've never seen manufacturer's instructions.

How do we know its designed for the screws to be outside?

 

[mike93lx]

I've never seen manufacturer's instructions.

How do we know its designed for the screws to be outside?

Locknut goes inside the box. It's SOP. Excerpt below from Halex documents as a reference.

Also found this from Halex " Insert threaded portion of connector into knockout in outlet box so that the clamp portion is outside the box."

 

[acer66]

Locknut goes inside the box. It's SOP. Excerpt below from Halex documents as a reference.

Also found this from Halex " Insert threaded portion of connector into knockout in outlet box so that the clamp portion is outside the box."

All nice and dandy but do we really want to take advice from a company that promotes the use of handy boxes?

 

[mike93lx]

All nice and dandy but do we really want to take advice from a company that promotes the use of handy boxes?

Ha!

But the corners are so smooth. Gotta protect gentle hands

 

[Norcal]

I do not make a practice of of it, but there are times I have done it.

 

[sparky 1971]

I've done it. It isn't a habit but there have been times a pancake box was the only thing that would work. I put the clamp in so that when the drywallers rotozip the wires off, all I had to do was loosen the clamp and pull a little more cable in. Now. I use the plastic connectors. Pulling some slack in easy, sometimes too easy and I do it when I don't want to.

 

[mike93lx]

I've done it. It isn't a habit but there have been times a pancake box was the only thing that would work. I put the clamp in so that when the drywallers rotozip the wires off, all I had to do was loosen the clamp and pull a little more cable in. Now. I use the plastic connectors. Pulling some slack in easy, sometimes too easy and I do it when I don't want to.

Begs the question... Who causes more problems... Drywallers or plumbers?

 

[Axehandle2]

Begs the question... Who causes more problems... Drywallers or plumbers?

Answer to question...Yes.

 

[sparky 1971]

Begs the question... Who causes more problems... Drywallers or plumbers?

That's easy. Since I won't begin a rough in before the plumbers and HVAC are finished, it's the rockers. I'm trimming out a house now and on the walk through was able to point out five receptacles and a switch that were covered by drywall.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That's easy. Since I won't begin a rough in before the plumbers and HVAC are finished, it's the rockers. I'm trimming out a house now and on the walk through was able to point out five receptacles and a switch that were covered by drywall.

time to get the hammer out and have fun blowing holes in the wall to find your receptacles

 

[sparky 1971]

time to get the hammer out and have fun blowing holes in the wall to find your receptacles

I made the owner have them come back and cut them out. I don't mind a couple even though it shouldn't happen at all but I'm not screwing around with six.

 

[kbuhagiar]

I made the owner have them come back and cut them out. I don't mind a couple even though it shouldn't happen at all but I'm not screwing around with six.

Jeez, was the guy blind or just hates electricians?

 

[nadogail]

More probably just LAZY

 

[Kuma601]

More probably just LAZY

It's more fun to think there's some beef with the sparky's.

 

[Fatboy148!]

I got to the point where I would mark the floor with a permanent marker line where the boxes were. Two OO's through the line for an outlet and a line through it for a switch height box. It's also fun to clean all the dust, Durabond and joint compound out of the boxes,

 

[larry4406]

I got to the point where I would mark the floor with a permanent marker line where the boxes were. Two OO's through the line for an outlet and a line through it for a switch height box. It's also fun to clean all the dust, Durabond and joint compound out of the boxes,

Our electricians just use a key hole saw and start poking and cutting till they find the buried items without care of the damage they cause. They get it done and the drywall crew ***** it up with the repairs.

 

[mike93lx]

Our electricians just use a key hole saw and start poking and cutting till they find the buried items without care of the damage they cause. They get it done and the drywall crew ***** it up with the repairs.

Teamwork makes the dream work

 

[Boogerman]

6 foot level/straight edge finds 90% of the covered boxes, close enough to put a sheetrock saw inside the box and cut it out like the drywaller should have.

 

[whateg01]

I've done it. It isn't a habit but there have been times a pancake box was the only thing that would work. I put the clamp in so that when the drywallers rotozip the wires off, all I had to do was loosen the clamp and pull a little more cable in. Now. I use the plastic connectors. Pulling some slack in easy, sometimes too easy and I do it when I don't want to.

If they cut the wires, how do you get ahold of the loose wire that's outside the box behind the drywall to pull more in?

 

[larry4406]

6 foot level/straight edge finds 90% of the covered boxes, close enough to put a sheetrock saw inside the box and cut it out like the drywaller should have.

Electrician’s use pocket levels at best to plumb devices. A 6 footer is not in their toolbox so poke poke stab saw cut cut bingo and the drywall crew solves the mess on their dime.

 

[Norcal]

I have heard of the sledge hammer box finder, sometimes they deserve it but it is not recommended. (Impulse control).

 

[ybnormal]

That's easy. Since I won't begin a rough in before the plumbers and HVAC are finished, it's the rockers. I'm trimming out a house now and on the walk through was able to point out five receptacles and a switch that were covered by drywall.

they are that dumb they actually covered up the outlets?

 

[larry4406]

they are that dumb they actually covered up the outlets?

Drywall crews cover lots of stuff SOP.

 

[cmandp]

Plumbers cause issues for framers since they just hacked half a joist away for that drain line. Electrical is just collateral damage if he didn't look behind the joist to see that cable he just cut with his sawzall.

But since this is a drywall thread now. How do I patch all those holes that electrician just made in my beautiful, uninterrupted by outlets, rock work?

 

[bronc076]

My dad was an electrician in Chicago back in the 50s/60s. He told me about a job where the bricklayers just pushed some boxes back into the wall and bricked up in front of them because the electricians had not put the boxes at the right height to correspond with a mortar line or something. There was a fist fight.

 

[sparky 1971]

If they cut the wires, how do you get ahold of the loose wire that's outside the box behind the drywall to pull more in?

The wires get cut inside the box

 

[Fatboy148!]

The masons have also been known to cut the PVC pipe right off using a piece of their string line

 

[Zeke]

I've seen a lot more loose lock nuts than clamp screws. Clamps outside for me.

Seems to me that there's a rule about exposed screw threads in a box anyway.

 

[dave*99]

Seems to me that there's a rule about exposed screw threads in a box anyway.

What does that rule say? Device (switch and receptacle) mounting screws and light fixture screws have exposed threads in the box.

 

[Zeke]

What does that rule say? Device (switch and receptacle) mounting screws and light fixture screws have exposed threads in the box.

Oh the rule exists and has been discussed many times here. Just feeling combative? I'm not going to look it up and cite chapter and verse.

It was just a comment. Like it or lump it.

 

[dave*99]

Oh the rule exists and has been discussed many times here. Just feeling combative? I'm not going to look it up and cite chapter and verse.

It was just a comment. Like it or lump it.

Not combative at all. I've read a lot on this forum and never saw mention of this. Since you have, I figured you would share.

 

[Zeke]

314.23(B)(1) Nails and Screws.Screws shall not be permitted to pass through the box unless exposed threads in the box are protected using approved means to avoid abrasion of conductor insulation. Mounting holes made in the field shall be approved.

N 314.5 Screws or Other Fasteners. (1) Screws shall be machine type with blunt ends. (2) Other fasteners shall have blunt ends. (3) Screws attaching a cover shall extend no more than 3⁄8 inch.

406.5 Receptacle Mounting. Receptacles shall be mounted in identified boxes or assemblies. The boxes or assemblies shall be securely fastened in place unless otherwise permitted elsewhere in this Code. Screws used for the purpose of attaching receptacles to a box shall be of the type provided with a listed receptacle, or shall be machine screws having 32 threads per inch or part of listed assemblies or systems, in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

There's one for panel cover screws allowed as well. I'm not the code police. I'm providing my findings simply to satisfy a statement.

 

[mike93lx]

The screws used in a cable clamp have a blunt end, so I wouldn't think that applies

 

[Zeke]

Probably doesn't. I should have never replied.

All I know is the last box I made up tripped a breaker and smoked a wire. It was a screw supplied with a device. Also in this gang box was a dimmer that took up nearly 1/3rd of the box putting the make up behind a recep and another flip switch. Somehow while stuffing the box with folded wires, grounds first way to the back, then neutrals with yellow nuts and finally the dimmer leads, nuts, jumper, switched and hot, I got one close enough that while driving said supplied screw with a driver drill, it wore into a hot. Blunt or not.

I like the 3/8ths rule but they are for covers, not the tabs of the device. It might be a hassle to get shorter screws started. I have seen really long screws for a fixture crossbar long enough to hit the back of the box. I try to use the shortest screw that I can get started w/o cussing.

So my thoughts are to limit screws and to use proper ones. It's just a thread about screws. I'm surprised no one brought up drywall screws. Now there's a topic for discussion. Even I, a long time ago, may have used a DW screw when a device screw stripped out. Not good, but I've seen it.

And I'm surprised at the sentence, "Mounting holes made in the field shall be approved." I've read that screw heads are not allowed inside a box.

314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes. Provisions for supports or
other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be out-
side of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to
prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the
supporting screws.

You have to conjure up some unusual circumstances for that one to make sense. Well, here it is: likely this scenario would occur during a remodel where an old work box is not that stable so someone drives 2 screws through the side of the box. (I believe they make a metallic box with provisions to drive screws from the inside at an angle.) But on the NM box whatever screw Mr. Remodeler uses may hit a shear wall or lathing screw therefore potentially energizing the lath if the screwhead in the box comes in contact with a hot.

Sorry, it's just a slow day and I'm bored if not a bit cranky.

 

[dave*99]

I suspect this:

314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes. Provisions for supports or
other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be out-
side of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to
prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the
supporting screws.

May refer to this where all the metal is outside the box and therefore can't be energized.


The nonmetallic boxes for dryers have a large plastic cable clamps with metal screws in the box, but the screws in those are recessed into the plastic.