Putting a basement under my garage (& back yard) ?

[ez-duzit]

11--you're probably a very bright guy. Can you not readily see how preposterous the whole scheme is? Even though you have never excavated a basement, yourself (I have), can you not visualize the horrendous difficulty your crew would face by doing the project you have herein described--grading a ramp down to a level that would provide for 9' ceilings, beginning close to an alley which I presume must be kept clear for neighbors' use--creating that excavation, not just close to the house and garage, UNDER them!--giving up part of the garage for the installation of an elevator, to get in and out of your shop!? Is this really what you want?

 

[Daniel Dudley]

The last time I did a project like this, we passed long steel I beams under the building, and jacked it about 9 feet high on cribbing. The long I beams enable you to move the cribbing out away from the foundation, so you can dig right under the building.

Sometimes you can dig out the center, and put the cribbing inside of where the foundation is going, then did the foundation wall space from the outside and empty out the center later. With I beams, you can be creative about where and how you distribute the weight. Cribbing simply enables you to lift it to any desired and convenient height.

 

[someguy11]

Wondering if you are aware of the difference between "I'm constantly building things." and "I'd be the general contractor (on a complex and costly construction project I've never done before)."

I was the general contractor on the extensive renovation of our house. I did all the electrical and plumbing myself. I formed and poured a ton of concrete as a kid. I'll hire someone to advise me as soon as I feel I'm over my head.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I think the "idea" is great, the plan? Well you haven't addressed a major issue of the big dig, shoring. What are you going to do to keep the hole from swallowing you and your skidsteer? What are you digging into? Your cycle times seem rather implausible, you are not just picking up loose material from a pile.

Steve

 

[someguy11]

11--you're probably a very bright guy. Can you not readily see how preposterous the whole scheme is? Even though you have never excavated a basement, yourself (I have), can you not visualize the horrendous difficulty your crew would face by doing the project you have herein described--grading a ramp down to a level that would provide for 9' ceilings,

The ramp is 40 feet long, so the slope isn't terrible. We'd be working with ICF blocks, not heavy forms. We'll use a concrete pumper to move the concrete. We'll have to place rebar, but we can bring it down with the skid steer and work with it in small bundles.

Dunno if this is so bad... I've done a lot worse.

beginning close to an alley which I presume must be kept clear for neighbors' use--

Nope, we can get a permit to shut it down for a limited time. My structure guy needs to do a slope stability test to determine how far back our wall needs to be set. We'll pour the alley wall last, as its own pour. We can reach that wall easily from the alley.

creating that excavation, not just close to the house and garage, UNDER them!--

We'll be excavating right up to the house foundation. Not seeing the issue there.

We'll be under the garage portion, just don't hit the blocking holding it up !!!! We may do things in sections so that only part of the garage is unsupported at any time.

I think if we go slowly and work safely it can be done.

giving up part of the garage for the installation of an elevator, to get in and out of your shop!?

I'd obviously rather not give up floor space for an elevator, but I don't really have a choice.

What are my choices ?

- no connection between the main floor and the basement of the garage. <- not an option.
- stairs only. Can't move dirt bikes, table saw, steel, up and down easily. <- not an option.
- no basement at all. No place to store dirt bikes, steel, table saw, etc. <- not an option.
- move to a larger lot. Won't be inner city, way more $$$, won't have a beautiful house. < not an option.
- live without dirt bikes, table saw, steel, tools, work bench. <- not an option.

Thus I'm thinking of building a bunker ! It will be way better than if the shop was in the basement of a house.

FWIW, I'm thinking of using a fork lift mast for the "elevator". I'm looking into how to make it safe. I can pick up a slightly used 14' dual stage, dual cylinder mast for $1500.

I'm hoping to design a stair system to sit in the 'elevator" shaft. When I want to use the elevator, I'll move the stairs out of the way. Normally the elevator will sit at the bottom of the shaft, mostly unseen. This will allow me, wife, kids to go from garage basement to main floor safely. I'll put up a removable railing around the elevator "hole", making it no different than going up and down the stairs in the house.

I might also have the option of using the elevator hole floor space by parking the lift at floor level.

I'm hoping the lift goes a few feet above the main floor so that one can unload items directly off a pickup truck or trailer onto the lift and then lower them to the main level or the basement. Would be pretty handy. Remember, my goal is to have the main floor of the garage mostly empty except when I am working on a project.

I'm thinking the elevator shaft would be 5x8 or 5x10. Pretty hard to get a stairway into something that small though. There is a garage attached to a house with a half bunker nearby. I watched them build it. The stairway is about 3" wide and takes up most of one wall of that garage. Seems like an OK trade off for how nice the storage is in the half bunker. And they aren't using it for shop space.

Obviously, I'm still working on the details of all this. It helps me to explain it to other people and read their comments back. It doubly helps that said people are garage nuts ! Isn't the Interweb a wonderful "place" ?

 

[someguy11]

I think the "idea" is great, the plan? Well you haven't addressed a major issue of the big dig, shoring. What are you going to do to keep the hole from swallowing you and your skidsteer?

Dig in the fall when its dry. If we encounter wet material, we may have to put a mini excavator in the hole and load the skid steer bucket, keeping it on dry dirt. We may have to put down matting.

What are you digging into?

Loam and sandy loam. Well drained. No rocks.

Your cycle times seem rather implausible, you are not just picking up loose material from a pile.

I'm estimating 1 minute per 3/4 yard bucket. I'll be using an 80ish HP machine. If the cycle times are longer, we'll have to work at it longer.

I think a small wheel loader would be faster, but not sure it would work. FWIW, I've seen many basements dug with a wheel loader, not an excavator. If the soil conditions are good, they work fine. The ramp needs to be long.

If we get lucky, we could back a small trailer down the ramp and load it.

If I can't get trucks to sit and wait for loading, we may get a permit to stock pile dirt on the street and then reload them. Big hassle if we have to do that.

I know this isn't how one would do this project if starting from scratch, but given the garage is there and the expense of replacing it, this is what we have to work with. I estimate that it would cost $40K to replace the garage. Materials, labor, demolishing the old garage and hauling it away. How much extra is it going to cost to work around the garage ? I got a quote from one contractor to excavate the whole basement with the garage in place using a skid steer for $20,000. It will probably cost me $5,000 ? Its just fuel, my time and wear on the machine. If I can run my machine for $50/hr, I can spend 100 hours or 2 weeks digging that hole. That is 6 yards per hour or 10 minute cycle times.

The owner of the house beside our rental house inquired about putting a basement under his. They would dig it with a skid steer. Ramp would be the length of the back yard, to get deep enough to get the skid steer under the house.

To be honest, the part I'm worried about is cribbing the roof pour(s). I don't have any forms, I'm going to rent (?) them ? Big unknowns there.

 

[ez-duzit]

...Dunno if this is so bad... I've done a lot worse.
...Not seeing the issue there.
...I think if we go slowly and work safely it can be done.
...thinking of using a fork lift mast for the "elevator"...When I want to use the elevator, I'll move the stairs out of the way...
Obviously, I'm still working on the details...

Maybe I overestimated you.

Seriously, I'm surprised your consultants are going along with this.

 

[someguy11]

I should set up a live webcam and charge you guys to watch me do the dig ! LOL.

 

[ez-duzit]

I'm in!

 

[Toolfool]

This would be a monumental owner/builder project. Subscribed.

 

[readhead]

You can rent floor forms or use steel decking and put in temp shoring. Sounds like a cool project. Anything is possible and it sounds like you have thought this through pretty well. Trench shoring is available to rent also.

 

[Steve from Socal]

How deep are you going to dig? Without bracing there is a good chance you will have a cave in, this is beginning to sound like. Hold my beer and watch this!

Why don't you demo the floor in the garage and start digging from the alley? Unbolt the garage from the foundation and brace the garage down the sides. You are doing a lot of unnecessary work with the original plan and, your access is better.

Steve

 

[mikeburris]

I should set up a live webcam and charge you guys to watch me do the dig ! LOL.

Thats a great idea, and while your at it take bets from the naysayers and recoup some of your money. You obviously have the balls for the project, see if they have them for the bet

 

[James-W]

Thats a great idea, and while your at it take bets from the naysayers and recoup some of your money. You obviously have the balls for the project, see if they have them for the bet

The forum members who don't think it is a good idea are simply expressing their honest opinion. If the opening poster didn't want our opinions he shouldn't have started the thread in the first place. To put in mildly, just because something is possible to do doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. Additionally, many things are possible to do but are not really practical to do. We feel the proposed project falls into this category.

In the final analysis, the opening poster is free to do whatever the local building/construction codes will allow. Whatever amount of money he wishes to spend on the project is up to him as well. I have a feeling if he goes ahead with the project he will end up spending a whole lot more money than he ever imagined. But again, that is entirely up to him.

 

[fountain]

I have subscribed to see if this actually happens. If it does it should interesting to watch the process. Good luck someguy and please keep us updated and please post drawings as you finalize the design

 

[CNGsaves]

OP, an idea you might consider is conveyor/auger system to move dirt up and dump in trailer, once at the point that time is wasted running back & forth with skidsteer.

My dad . . hand dug . . basement under house and used auger to move dirt out onto a trailer. He dug within 3 ft of existing foundation, and created "step wall" for holding the soil in place to prevent basement cave in. Obviously, he never pursued jacking up house, and putting in 100% full basement. He settled for 80% but his costs were peanuts. Ford 9N tractor pulled the trailer full of dirt to farm field nearby.

OP . . after hearing your ramblings & experience, I have no doubt that you CAN pull this off, if you choose to spend the money/effort/time to get it done. When you do big portion yourself, you'll control costs and eliminate surprises/mistakes by vendors.

I like the forklift for elevator idea. Presume that you're going with electric/hydraulic . . right?? Would be nice for bumpout to house the elevator so you don't lose floorspace of garage.

Good luck . . . and . . . Go For It !!

 

[Tdoriot]

Yikes! That's one ambitious project! Having been in the custom home building business for 35 years, I can tell you that this project will be an educational process for all ! Whatever you calculate for a budget, double that and you'll no doubt be in the ballpark. I own a couple of Bobcat 753's and a TB135 hoe. We have excavated under a couple of places in a similar fashion. The skid steers don't excavate as fast in that type usage as you might think. If the ground is loose enough to dig easily, it usually won't support itself well and cave ins are pretty much guaranteed without shoring. We used our excavator with the cage removed, then scooped the loose soil with the 753. That worked pretty well. We had enough real estate to run the dirt out in a daylight fashion and dump it. I can't imagine loading trailers and all that monkey motion. Toss in trying to support the garage then pouring a suspended slab, and you are doing pretty much every difficult operation on one project. As others have said, it can be done, but I'll bet it will be a *****. Then toss in some rain and mud and things will get crazy in a fast fury. I think the most prudent move in this case is sinking a 4x4 in the front yard and nailing a "For Sale By Owner" sign on it. Take the proceeds, what you have to spend on this remodel, your anticipated business windfall and build what you really want. I guarantee it will take less time and your final product will be worth more ! If you don't believe any of this, rock on! We will all be along for the ride!

 

[someguy11]

I met with a garage builder today. The replacement cost on my garage is about $35K due to factors like wiring, stucco, stone work, roof detail, etc. By the time one demolishes it and hauls it away, it would be $42K.

He highly recommends that we try to lift the garage and excavate around it. If we find we can't, we can always demolish it, haul it away and build a new one. But its best to try and keep it if we can.

 

[ez-duzit]

I met with a garage builder today...He highly recommends that we try to lift the garage and excavate around it...

Come on.

 

[someguy11]

Come on.

I think I'm done posting on this topic.

 

[JpRngr]

Don't stop just cause of a few naysayers. If they really wanted to be helpful, they'd be giving you ideas on how to make it work. Sounds like you're doing your best to get your ducks in a row before you decide if you're even going to do it. Sounds like you're trying to do your homework first, so keep it up. If you do stop posting, at least update the post later to let us know what you decide. I'm curious to see pics of this as you go along as well as some pics of it's current state to get a better picture of your plans.

 

[Playwme]

Yeah, ignore him.

I think you're nuts, but I want to hear more. I look at my backyard and imagine the same thing. It would be insanely expensive here though.
I'm curious to hear your initial estimates on what it will cost you.

 

[SALIV8]

I havent read all the posts on this, but have a question. Instead of going down, can you build up instead? add a another level to the existing property and tie it all together? I would think costs would be somewhat competitive between the two options?

either way i would love to see this idea and project come together. seems like quite the undertaking and expense, you must love the property and location.

 

[volleyball]

I think I'm done posting on this topic.

Biggest mistake of the whole project is to not contemplate the naysayers. These are the people who will be most valuable if you proceed. You will get lots of what if scenarios that you haven't thought of.
Things like it is an inner city lot. the building is 2008. What 4 buildings were there before? What will you have to deal with? Digging dirt isn't too bad. 100 tons of junk fill is another story.
Where in the world do you propose this? The costs of permits and blocking streets, sidewalks and such are huge in NY, Chicago and such places.
How much is that view over the garage worth? A view of the water can be worth it.
I am far from a naysayer. But I would not give it the green light.
How far are you from cheap real estate? A friend spent a huge amount expanding the garage on his victorian house to have a work area. Lost a big portion of yard. Still wasn't enough space. Found an old dealership not far away in the next town for less than the renovation cost. He got real work bays, lifts and shop space. Rented out the store front and is turning a profit.
I almost bought an old inner city property myself with a parking garage. I was going to put a deck on top of the garage and get a place in the country that had living space over a large garage. Sort of a weekend retreat. Maybe you could find such a place and you don't have to live/work in a "cave".
If you have a view, maybe expand the garage over most of the yard. Put your yard on top, enjoy the view as well as increase your privacy. Making the garage look like a house would go a long way towards making your property more valuable, not less.

 

[bczygan]

This thread needs photos to go with the descriptions. Hard to visualize otherwise, and promotes naysaying.

OP, please post photos of the site and surrounding areas from ground level and Google Earth, so we can see what you are dealing with.

Everything is possible. You just are figuring out the best way.

Bill

 

[machsnell]

First off...awesome dream and sounds like good plannning and you posses good general know how. Go for it. All of it sounds and is feasible. it will be a job but something to be proud of when finished.

On the skid steer front. they cost more but definitely get a track machine. i only use bobcat and i have had all of them. get a t250 or t300 to have some muscle and you will make quick work of it. If space is tight and you dont mind it taking longer and you need a smaller machine for the construction then get a t190. tooth bucket for sure. couple days of digging and you will be good. renting a mini to help loosen for a couple days not a bad idea if you have someone that is good on a hoe.

send pics and dont listen to all the negativity. from what i have heard you have a response for all of their concerns. Lots of people cant do and have to hire for all and dont get the value of sweat equity.

I moved my garage, relocated my septic, built a 7 foot by 150 foot wall and moved 100 truck loads of dirt on my property to build my dream 1,700 sf garage and have done most of it besides the framing and roof, myself with the help of some of my employees. i am a paving contractor and not a builder. Learning curve on some trades but research and gen skills will take you far.

good luck..

 

[flippin]

I love the idea and dreamed since I was a kid of a tunnel joining my house and my detached garage. This is even better. Like others have said ignore the morons who have nothing better to do than take shots across your bow. Imagine a world without inspired people. We'd be left with the sheep that do not have the imagination or guts to challenge themselves.

I work on large scale construction projects daily (bridges, dams etc) We often negotiate the use of adjacent property in the interests of costs. Would access to your lot through your neighbors property assist your objective and if so maybe paying your neighbor "rent" could greatly assist.

There's is no doubt that many of us support your idea and are eager to see your ambitious project succeed. Please do not let a handful of naysayers ruin it for the rest of us. Keep us updated. After all that is what GJ is all about, sharing ideas, information and support.

Thanks
-Paul

 

[shoot summ]

I think I'm done posting on this topic.

Don't let the **** heads discourage you from posting. It's really easy to add them to your ignore list and that way you wont see their negative posts.

Your idea is obviously going to garnish some feedback, and some folks actually have the ability to provide feedback without being a **** head.

I'm going to follow this thread as I think it's a really cool idea, and you seem to have put a lot of thought into it. I like the forklift/elevator idea, and using the same space as a staircase if possible.

Keep the posts coming!

 

[bczygan]

Lets add some things about this kind of structure.

Being basically a basement with an upper level structure, water is a concern.

What is the soil and subsurface geology? Where is the groundwater level at different seasons?

Drainage will be important. And a battery backup sump pump and pit is advised.

I've often though of building an addition completely underground. It would require a lot of planning and work.

http://www.zillow.com/blog/house-of-the-week-las-vegas-home-built-completely-underground-135135/

 

[volleyball]

Don't let the **** heads discourage you from posting. It's really easy to add them to your ignore list and that way you wont see their negative posts.

Your idea is obviously going to garnish some feedback, and some folks actually have the ability to provide feedback without being a **** head.

I'm going to follow this thread as I think it's a really cool idea, and you seem to have put a lot of thought into it. I like the forklift/elevator idea, and using the same space as a staircase if possible.

Keep the posts coming!

This is a poor attitude IMO. Will I be on your ignore list now? If you want just people to kiss your ****, then hire them.
None of us have any investment in this project. It is easy to say do this, just like all those kids when you were young, edging you on to do something stupid. Maybe you will succeed and show them. Maybe you will fall on your face and have huge bills.
If the OP calls it quits because of people pointing out problems, I guarantee the project will fail.
I've done several projects that others didn't see my vision. And they admired the finished project. I also had I told you so when I failed.

 

[ez-duzit]

I love the idea and dreamed since I was a kid of a tunnel joining my house and my detached garage...

Anything is possible when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[shoot summ]

This is a poor attitude IMO. Will I be on your ignore list now? If you want just people to kiss your ****, then hire them.
None of us have any investment in this project. It is easy to say do this, just like all those kids when you were young, edging you on to do something stupid. Maybe you will succeed and show them. Maybe you will fall on your face and have huge bills.
If the OP calls it quits because of people pointing out problems, I guarantee the project will fail.
I've done several projects that others didn't see my vision. And they admired the finished project. I also had I told you so when I failed.

Not a poor attitude at all. There is a monumental difference in pointing out problems, or making constructive suggestions, and being an ***.

And yes, if you regularly act like an ***, I will put you on my ignore list. Just like I'd ignore you if you were being an *** in person.

 

[Tyberius]

I'm interested in hearing more about this.

I also think it would be worth it to relocate the garage next door (even if that means replacing the sod on the neighbors yard, replacing fencing, etc)

Without the garage in the way you can:
- Do your forms and pour all at once
- shore up the dig using the forms
- access the garage floor for planks
- or anything you want

I don't think you would need to have posts in the basement if you don't want them. What kind of span are you thinking?

The garage space will have to be gas sealed from the lower living space, so I'm not sure how the lift will work with the garage. The lift can be behind a sealed door, which is probably what you were describing, but I don't see how it could be in the garage itself.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The OP has an interesting idea; the technical challenges can be dealt with but, at what cost? There is a point of diminishing returns, what is the project cost Vs what value it ads? While the scope of work is absolutely possible, are the nuances of the job being dismissed as trivial when they are anything but trivial. All the issues discussed here have solutions, most of them ad significant incremental cost to the work. At what point is the value exceeded?

Are we talking about lake front property at Geneva or Tahoe? The property is kinda small, make plans to move to larger quarters in X years and work towards that. No matter what you do underground the house will still be the same house and, retain about the same value.

JMHO,

Steve

 

[tasmith5]

Long time lurker here. This project/discussion caught my attention because I am in the planning stages of a similar project. With proper planning, forethought, and engineering, of course cash, this project is absolutely doable. The OP appears to be taking his time to carefully think this project through. So what if it ends up costing 200K or more? I'm more interested in seeing the planning and the implementation of that planning for a finished product. He has already considered alternatives to which none will satisfy his vision. So give the guy a break. Offer your opinion and let it lie. I say go for it, but please post some pictures continue posting your process. Cheers.

 

[Garage Dog]

We have a large, newish (2008) house on a 50x120 inner city corner lot.

In the back yard, facing the alley, is a 22x31 garage with 9 foot ceiling, 5/12 roof. I've added storage in the loft. Stucco exterior.

I'm thinking about (early planning stages) putting a basement under the garage and probably the whole back yard, thus connecting it to the house.

The back of our house is 37 feet wide. The house is about 22 feet from the garage. I could add about 1400 square feet (35 x 40) of man cave, maybe more. I'd probably use some of the space for "fun", but the rest would be solely used for shop purposes.

I'm thinking 9 foot ceiling, ICF construction. I think we'd still want grass over the top of the underground portion of the basement. I'd put a lift between the basement and the garage main floor so that I could move things (table saw, small lathe, etc.), between floors as needed.

I just came back from a planning meeting with the city. They've seen several of these built and they don't have a problem with it, subject to meeting some of their building codes.

Thoughts, ideas, advice ?

1. I would go back to the city and find out who "they" are that have built several of these recently. Try contacting them and ask about who did their build and how it went.

2. The individual elements of the project you are describing are all rather straight forward. a) lift & hold garage, b) excavate, c) pour footings, pour walls, d) drain tile inside & out, e) set garage back down, f) place span-crete panels or place concrete for engineered deck, g) insulate to prevent sweating, h)plumbing, i) power, j) landscaping, etc, etc.

The real trick is understanding how much more difficult, time consuming and expensive it is to do all these things on a 50 x 120 lot with a house and garage in place without a place to pile the fill from your excavation.

Just know that the project you are contemplating is deceptively complicated if you haven't done it before.

Good Luck,

GD

 

[someguy11]

I shouldn't need to repost facts that have been previously posted, but it seems people aren't reading them, so...

- there is no place to move the garage to, other than to slide it 20 feet closer to the house. There is no room on the neighbors lot. It doesn't fit down the back alley.

- the garage can't be removed from the lot short of a) using a helicopter, b) dismantling it, including the roof or c) demolishing it.

- the replacement cost on the garage as quoted by a garage builder that would love to sell me a garage is about $35K, plus demolition costs if it comes to that.

- the house is a high end house, built new in 2008. Renovated by me and helpers in 2013. 3800 ft^2 above ground + basement. Replacement cost about $1.5M. As you might imagine, we have a number of somewhat expensive belongings in the house and garage and I'm not too interested in advertising where I live. I'll post some selective pictures as we go along.

- the house is perfect for us. We expect to live in it for the next 20 years. Its the perfect combination of house and location. There are nicer houses in our neighborhood, but only a very select few on larger lots and none at this price range. We know you get more land in the suburbs. You also get an extra hour of commuting every day. We have chosen to live where we are and this garage project is an attempt at making the most of the situation.

- I have a competent structural engineer and an architect/designer working casually with me on the project at this point. As people are pointing out, there are many issues and most seem to have solutions or can be worked around. Of course its going to be a complex project ! Got any better solutions to gain me 1400 ft^2 of shop space ?

- I've met with the city planning department and there are no show stoppers at this point. The city has seen several projects similar to this one before.

- adding another floor on top of the garage is not an option due to permitting and even if it was, it would be expensive because the entire garage including the foundation would have to be redesigned and rebuilt. And it would only gain 700ft^2, not 1400 ft^2.

- there are real costs to owning and storing equipment. I have a ton of stuff, used both personally and professionally. I've used storage space for the last 10 years and I'm sick of it. I'm at the point where I need space to actually use some of my equipment and that sort of space is even more expensive and less convenient when one is working on a project. We also want space in the garage to actually store our vehicles ! This basement project seems to be the solution to this issue.

- I'm looking for good constructive feedback and ideas to move the project forward. I thought this sort of project was the realm of this forum and the people on it. I'm looking forward to hearing from people of that ilk.

 

[someguy11]

1. I would go back to the city and find out who "they" are that have built several of these recently. Try contacting them and ask about who did their build and how it went.

City can't release that information due to privacy code. I found a friend of a guy who did one. I'm in the process of contacting him.

The real trick is understanding how much more difficult, time consuming and expensive it is to do all these things on a 50 x 120 lot with a house and garage in place without a place to pile the fill from your excavation.

Total excavation will be nearly 600 cubic yards, all of which will be hauled away. I'll back fill with dirt excavated from another nearby project. That dirt will be free or nearly free. Hauling costs for my dirt will be more expensive than the excavation itself.

 

[someguy11]

Here is a picture of the side yard, the back of the house and you can see the garage through the trees.

The distance from the back of the house to the garage is about 24 feet, the garage is 22 feet deep and there is a 4 foot set back from the garage to the back property line.

Those trees are about 40 feet tall and cannot be removed. They are on the city side of the property line and there is a fine/fee of about $5,000 per tree for removing them.

FWIW, I did the side yard landscaping last spring. Without a skid steer ! The bed was almost at the right elevation before I started.

The total width of the lot is about 60 feet. My portion is 50 feet. The garage is 31 feet wide now, will be 34 feet wide when I am done, leaving me a 16 foot yard beside it.

 

[bczygan]

I shouldn't need to repost facts that have been previously posted, but it seems people aren't reading them, so...

- there is no place to move the garage to, other than to slide it 20 feet closer to the house. There is no room on the neighbors lot. It doesn't fit down the back alley.

- the garage can't be removed from the lot short of a) using a helicopter, b) dismantling it, including the roof or c) demolishing it.

- the replacement cost on the garage as quoted by a garage builder that would love to sell me a garage is about $35K, plus demolition costs if it comes to that.

- the house is a high end house, built new in 2008. Renovated by me and helpers in 2013. 3800 ft^2 above ground + basement. Replacement cost about $1.5M. As you might imagine, we have a number of somewhat expensive belongings in the house and garage and I'm not too interested in advertising where I live. I'll post some selective pictures as we go along.

- the house is perfect for us. We expect to live in it for the next 20 years. Its the perfect combination of house and location. There are nicer houses in our neighborhood, but only a very select few on larger lots and none at this price range. We know you get more land in the suburbs. You also get an extra hour of commuting every day. We have chosen to live where we are and this garage project is an attempt at making the most of the situation.

- I have a competent structural engineer and an architect/designer working casually with me on the project at this point. As people are pointing out, there are many issues and most seem to have solutions or can be worked around. Of course its going to be a complex project ! Got any better solutions to gain me 1400 ft^2 of shop space ?

- I've met with the city planning department and there are no show stoppers at this point. The city has seen several projects similar to this one before.

- adding another floor on top of the garage is not an option due to permitting and even if it was, it would be expensive because the entire garage including the foundation would have to be redesigned and rebuilt. And it would only gain 700ft^2, not 1400 ft^2.

- there are real costs to owning and storing equipment. I have a ton of stuff, used both personally and professionally. I've used storage space for the last 10 years and I'm sick of it. I'm at the point where I need space to actually use some of my equipment and that sort of space is even more expensive and less convenient when one is working on a project. We also want space in the garage to actually store our vehicles ! This basement project seems to be the solution to this issue.

- I'm looking for good constructive feedback and ideas to move the project forward. I thought this sort of project was the realm of this forum and the people on it. I'm looking forward to hearing from people of that ilk.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/lpski1/Misc%20Gifs/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif

OP, I'm an Architectural Designer and builder, and the words of this thread aren't enough to properly define the problem so I can offer any advice. Please post up some, especially birds eye view or plot plan and Google Map, so the existing conditions are clear. Otherwise, everything is possible and impossible.

Bill