Putting tractor on a 2-post lift?

[FTG-05]

I need to work on my tractor and I've never put it on the 2-post lift before. It is a Kubota L4330, ~40 hp with 4wd. The Front End Loader (FEL) will be on but no implement (bucket, grapple etc.). The rear tires are filled ~750 lbs of liquid ballast and there are two lead, steel concrete wheel weights of 500 bs. No rear implement.

Good, bad, ugly? Any hints, tips or tricks?

Thanks!


See post #13 for update.

 

[Firebrick43]

I need to work on my tractor and I've never put it on the 2-post lift before. It is a Kubota L4330, ~40 hp with 4wd. The Front End Loader (FEL) will be on but no implement (bucket, grapple etc.). The rear tires are filled ~750 lbs of liquid ballast and there are two lead, steel concrete wheel weights of 500 bs. No rear implement.

Good, bad, ugly? Any hints, tips or tricks?

Thanks!

What are you doing that you think you need a lift. Having worked on tractors my whole life, sometimes for a living, I haven’t ever thought I wanted to put one on a lift like I do vehicles.

 

[TurnipTruck]

TractorTimeWithTim reviewed this beam attachment:


I have no experience with it, nor do I know the capacity.
Also; why?

 

[FTG-05]

I have a bad hydraulic leak somewhere underneath it. I want to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

 

[PCustoms]

I have a bad hydraulic leak somewhere underneath it. I want to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

Hose it off well and use a creeper.

I sure wouldn't want to balance one on a lift.

I'm guessing the hydraulic routing is pretty basic and it should be obvious

 

[N_Jay]

I need to work on my tractor and I've never put it on the 2-post lift before. It is a Kubota L4330, ~40 hp with 4wd. The Front End Loader (FEL) will be on but no implement (bucket, grapple etc.). The rear tires are filled ~750 lbs of liquid ballast and there are two lead, steel concrete wheel weights of 500 bs. No rear implement.

Good, bad, ugly? Any hints, tips or tricks?

Thanks!

What is the total weight? What is the weight distribution?

 

[finn]

Maybe a four post, but even then, the load has to be distributed per the manufacturer’s recommendation, ie, they aren’t suitable for something like a skid steer that would concentrate the weight in the area of the center of the ramps.

 

[Firebrick43]

I went through that last year, ended up rebuilding my SCV valves and it’s dry again.

I could see maybe that would be helpful but probably take more effort to set up than just washing with a pressure washer and rolling under with a creeper.

 

[cvairwerks]

Quick rough numbers, you are over 6500 pounds....

 

[FTG-05]

What is the total weight? What is the weight distribution?

Quick rough numbers, you are over 6500 pounds....

Per TractorData. com and the Owner's Manual, the tractor itself weighs 3440 lb. Add 47x2x8.1 lb/gallon for liquid ballast + 500 lb wheel weights gets the tractor weight at: 3440 + 760 + 500 = 4,701 lb total weight on a 12k lb lift.

The tractor weight does not include the LA853 FEL (no implement), so add 1157 lbs; call it 5860 lbs for everything.

 

[whateg01]

I don't think it's as much about the total weight. It's about where the weight is and how your going to balance it. Also, where are you going to lift it from? You don't have the same frame or unibody a car has. The best place to list one would be the rear axle and front of the block I would think, but how would you do that? As open as a tractor is, I can't imagine doing that any other way that on a creeper.

 

[PCustoms]

^^^theres a good chance the leak is on top anyway.

I blew an o-ring on a valve, easiest way to get to it was to pull the seat and pan. Other options was to pulling rear tire.

Lift wouldn't have helped at all.

 

[FTG-05]

BIG PROBLEM!

Got it centered and balanced fore and aft, left and right - and went to lift 1-2 mechanical latches to test rock it.

No lift mechanical latch on the right side. and

Best of three pics I could get of the problem; this is the left side; note the notched rail behind the black column; barely visible at top center is the mechanical spring loaded latch.




The right side:




Bad pic, I know. Note that the latch doesn't appear to come close to latching. Latch spring loads perfectly; it's just not closing onto the latch rail.



I NEVER use this lift without dropping it onto the mechanical latches. I have no idea what caused this; it's never happened before. I don't even know how to get to the bottom of the latch rack to see why it's leaning forward so much. I can't move it with hand strength.

This is now an Atlas Lift Problem Thread - forget the tractor for the moment.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Off hand, I would guess it's not as balanced as you thought ai has put the lift in a bind if this has never happened before.

 

[FTG-05]

The lift arms are on the ground, there is no weight on them. The latch rack/beam is still out of alignment. I still can't move it.

I've e-mailed Atlas for their advice. The owner's manual/installation instructions say nothing about installing the latch rack or even the carriages; they come installed into the bottom columns from the factory. The safety latch rack is not shown in either list of materials nor the pictures of all the parts.

Here is what I have if anyone is interested in checking it out.

http://cdn.gregsmithequipment.com/documents/manuals/2postlifts/Letter_PV-12P_Manual_ATPK-PV12P.pdf

 

[PCustoms]

So everyone universally recommended against it, you did it anyway, and broke s***

 

[FTG-05]

The Kubota weighs less than 2000 lb than my Ford F-350 PSD. How in the world could I break anything?

 

[PCustoms]

The Kubota weighs less than 2000 lb than my Ford F-350 PSD. How in the world could I break anything?

Weight and weight distribution are both important

 

[FTG-05]

Better pics:





The only way I can figure that rack would move away from the column is if something got behind it and forced it out when lifting the arms. However, since the latch rack moves with the carriage anything between the latch rack and the column would make a heck of a racket - and there has not been any strange noises. And there are no paint scratches (see above two pics) to indicate something stuck between the two, forcing them apart.


An Atlas rep has already called me back and left a VM. Apparently, this isn't an unknown-unknown. He said he has a couple ways to fix it. 4:36 PM here now, so hopefully I'll here before COB for him.

 

[whateg01]

BIG PROBLEM!

Got it centered and balanced fore and aft, left and right - and went to lift 1-2 mechanical latches to test rock it.

The lift arms are on the ground, there is no weight on them.

How is it balanced and how do you know it's balanced if the arms are on the ground?

 

[FTG-05]

Weight and weight distribution are both important

As we used to say at Boeing: Motherhood and Apple Pie. Meaning: Worthless empty words.

There is no credible evidence anything I did caused this problem.

 

[mike93lx]

As we used to say at Boeing: Motherhood and Apple Pie. Meaning: Worthless empty words.

There is no credible evidence anything I did caused this problem.

Except that it broke after you lifted the tractor?

 

[FTG-05]

Ok, I talked to Josh over at Atlas. He's seen this problem 3-4 times over his career, always with older Atlas 2 post 12k and 15K lb lifts*. He says it's nothing I did since it takes years for the problem to develop.

There are two possible solutions, the Hard Way and The Easier (somewhat) Way.

The Hard Way is to dismantle the right side column and either replace (!!!$$$$$$$) the carriage or just bend the ladder rack (that's the real term for what I've been calling the "latch rack") back into straighthood. The ladder rack is welded to the carriage and there is no adjustment or even any access to it below the top of the column.

The (slightly) Easier Way is to get a huge clamp (which I don't have) and an acetylene torch (which I also do not have) and both bend and heat the ladder rack back to straighthood.


However, I think there is a third way: Pass a bolt through the column, grab the ladder rack and torque the bolt until the ladder rack flies right. Unfortunately, there are no bolt holes in the column and I'm not all that thrilled about drilling one into it either.

Fortunately, there is already a pretty nice-sized hole in the column and Atlas knows all about it: The latch hook hole.



He's sending me .pdf instructions for fixing this the (slightly) easier way. He says he's never heard this not working.

The other good news is that above about 30" or so, the ladder rack gets close enough to the latch that it starts catching correctly; so in an emergency (which this isn't), I could use the lift above 30" or so.


* This lift was installed some time from 2006 to 2011; in other words, the previous, previous owner of my property. I'm going to get the serial number off the lift and see if Josh can figure out when it was manufactured.

 

[Jason280]

I have nothing to offer other than the L4330 is one of the best tractors ever offered by Kubota...especially with the GST transmission.

Good luck getting it (and the lift) fixed!

 

[FTG-05]

Got the writeup from Josh, seems pretty straightforward. Use of the clamp (singular) was easier than I thought, similar to my bolt idea.


"Repairing the Lock Ladder

1. Disassemble the lock assembly on the column with the malfunctioning lock ladder.

2. Raise the lift until the top of the last lock that does not engage is flush with upper portion of the lock hole on the column.

3. Insert a C-Clamp and tighten it until the lock ladder pulls in toward the column. There should be no more than a ¼” of space between the back of the lock ladder and the column.

4. Heat the lock ladder until it is flexible enough to hold its position. Be careful and do not heat up the hydraulic cylinder. If the lock ladder is not heated, it will spring back to its prior position when the C-Clamp is removed.

5. Remove the C-Clamp after the lock ladder has cooled thoroughly.

6. Assemble lock assembly and test.

7. Greg Smith Equipment Sales has touch up paint.


NOTE: Steps 3 and 4 may need to be repeated at different positions on the lock ladder."

The only real question I now have is will the little MAP/propane gas burner unit I have heat the metal up enough that it will relax the steel to stay in place.

 

[whateg01]

Got the writeup from Josh, seems pretty straightforward. Use of the clamp (singular) was easier than I thought, similar to my bolt idea.


"Repairing the Lock Ladder

1. Disassemble the lock assembly on the column with the malfunctioning lock ladder.

2. Raise the lift until the top of the last lock that does not engage is flush with upper portion of the lock hole on the column.

3. Insert a C-Clamp and tighten it until the lock ladder pulls in toward the column. There should be no more than a ¼” of space between the back of the lock ladder and the column.

4. Heat the lock ladder until it is flexible enough to hold its position. Be careful and do not heat up the hydraulic cylinder. If the lock ladder is not heated, it will spring back to its prior position when the C-Clamp is removed.

5. Remove the C-Clamp after the lock ladder has cooled thoroughly.

6. Assemble lock assembly and test.

7. Greg Smith Equipment Sales has touch up paint.


NOTE: Steps 3 and 4 may need to be repeated at different positions on the lock ladder."

The only real question I now have is will the little MAP/propane gas burner unit I have heat the metal up enough that it will relax the steel to stay in place.

Well, I think that depends a little bit on whether you are using mapp, map pro, or propane. If you are using straight propane, I would guess it will not get hot enough because you will not be able to put enough heat into it fast enough.

Reading that it was easier than you thought made it seem that you had already done this. But then again you also said the tractor was balanced and then it sounded like you had not gotten the tractor off the ground yet. So many confusing things going on here.

It is interesting to me that the top of the lock ladder is allowed to float. That would be the end I would think should be securely held in place. But, I guess they have engineers that know better.

 

[pancholasvegas]

NOTE: Steps 3 and 4 may need to be repeated at different positions on the lock ladder."

The only real question I now have is will the little MAP/propane gas burner unit I have heat the metal up enough that it will relax the steel to stay in place.

The answer to this question is a resounding No. You will need an Oxygen/Acetylene or Oxygen/Propane Torch. Anything handheld or "Little" is not going to put out sufficient heat for the operation you are trying to perform.

I wouldn't even waste my time with one of those handheld bottles - It'll just burn the paint up and stink.

 

[FTG-05]

Well, I think that depends a little bit on whether you are using mapp, map pro, or propane. If you are using straight propane, I would guess it will not get hot enough because you will not be able to put enough heat into it fast enough.

Reading that it was easier than you thought made it seem that you had already done this. But then again you also said the tractor was balanced and then it sounded like you had not gotten the tractor off the ground yet. So many confusing things going on here.

It is interesting to me that the top of the lock ladder is allowed to float. That would be the end I would think should be securely held in place. But, I guess they have engineers that know better.

When talking to Josh, he mentioned the use of a "big" clamp. That made me *assume* that the clamp was used from the inside of the column; something that would require a clamp in the 10"-12" size. Use of a clamp from the lock assembly hole (which I pictured above) requires what I would call - at most - a medium sized clamp i.e. 5-6" or so. Which is, by the by, I am using as we speak to hold the lock ladder in its correct position.

There is a picture in Josh's writeup, but I don't know how to copy it here. I'll take a pic of my setup next time I go to the shop.

The tractor was lifted 10-15" or so, enough that I could: a) visually see the lift pads were in their correct location and b) perform a rock test for stability. This is something I do for almost everything I lift and especially for any vehicles. I think part of the reason I never discovered this before is that when lifting most vehicles, I lift them 45-50" so I can see the lit pad positions easier. At that height the mechanical locks work just fine, hence I never noticed a problem.

 

[FTG-05]

The answer to this question is a resounding No. You will need an Oxygen/Acetylene or Oxygen/Propane Torch. Anything handheld or "Little" is not going to put out sufficient heat for the operation you are trying to perform.

I wouldn't even waste my time with one of those handheld bottles - It'll just burn the paint up and stink.

Well that *****. Josh made it clear significant heat was required to keep the lock ladder in place; otherwise it will just spring out of alignment again.

 

[whateg01]

Well that *****. Josh made it clear significant heat was required to keep the lock ladder in place; otherwise it will just spring out of alignment again.

Well, Josh is right. The only way to do this without putting a lot of heat into it would be to remove it and bend it past straight so that the spring back allows it to be straight. But it doesn't sound like you're removing it so you'll need heat

 

[FTG-05]

Well, Josh is right. The only way to do this without putting a lot of heat into it would be to remove it and bend it past straight so that the spring back allows it to be straight. But it doesn't sound like you're removing it so you'll need heat

Removing it requires the complete disassembly of the right-side column. There is no access to the lock ladder without removing the carriage.

 

[FTG-05]

Well, I think that depends a little bit on whether you are using mapp, map pro, or propane. If you are using straight propane, I would guess it will not get hot enough because you will not be able to put enough heat into it fast enough.

Reading that it was easier than you thought made it seem that you had already done this. But then again you also said the tractor was balanced and then it sounded like you had not gotten the tractor off the ground yet. So many confusing things going on here.

It is interesting to me that the top of the lock ladder is allowed to float. That would be the end I would think should be securely held in place. But, I guess they have engineers that know better.

I bought one of these yesterday. Yes, no?

 

[PCustoms]

No

 

[whateg01]

I bought one of these yesterday. Yes, no?

Sorry, "real" mapp gas isn't available for purchase anymore. What you have is "map pro". I didn't know they were labeling them that way. If you read the label, it does say propylene, which is the real identifier.

 

[pancholasvegas]

I bought one of these yesterday. Yes, no?

No. Oxygen / Acetylene or Oxygen /Propane are the only options available that will achieve the heat you need. That’s it.

 

[c39er]

Warning! Get rid of your old Atlas 12,000/15,000 Lb 2 post lift...it's gonna fail on you when you least expect it!

 

[FTG-05]

Sorry, "real" mapp gas isn't available for purchase anymore. What you have is "map pro". I didn't know they were labeling them that way. If you read the label, it does say propylene, which is the real identifier.

I've calling some DIYers I know to see if I can borrow an O-A setup; so far no joy. I really hate to have to spend $250 for a used setup plus have to deal with CL/FBM morons.

 

[CraigStu]

Do rental places rent OA setups?

 

[jblnut]

Take it apart and fix it. You may learn some new things and get to buy a few new tools for your disassembly and reassembly adventure. Plus no paint loss or fire involved to put heat stress in areas you may not want it.

Nothing ventured nothing gained

 

[logical]

Sometimes an extra two posts comes in handy.✌