PVC airline explosion - pictures

[Olafur]

Pictures taken today by yours truly this evening.
What happened? -unknown edit: see post #90
Anyone got hurt? - unknown. (edit: no injuries)
Time since installation? - 6 months edit: see post#90
Pressure? - approx 9 bar.
Radius of shrapnel distribution? - at least 30 ft
Diameter of line? - 32mm

This is how it was done:


Update: Digging through my pictures I found one of the very same spot before the explosion.



oops:










This was on the floor approx 30 ft away:


Pieces are spread all over, this one is about 20ft away:


An no, these guys do not read the Garage Journal.
...still, quite worried about injuries, hoping for the best.

 

[PapaD]

No expert here, but I see a lot wrong with that whole set up beyond the pvc. My pvc is good so far after three years.

 

[boobag]

is that pvc rated for air? it looks really thin.

 

[nine4gmc]

No expert here, but I see a lot wrong with that whole set up beyond the pvc. My pvc is good so far after three years.

Right on, I had PVC in my old shop for a few years without incident but I'm holding out at my new place for a better alternative.

And, flame suit on.

 

[nine4gmc]

is that pvc rated for air? it looks really thin.

That was my VERY first thought, before looking at the rest of the issues there.

Also OP, how are injuries unknown? Seems like you would know if someone was injured or not since you are taking pictures.

 

[Olafur]

No expert here, but I see a lot wrong with that whole set up beyond the pvc. My pvc is good so far after three years.

Exchange pvc for steel and this would work fine. Ugly- yes, wrong pipe diameter for the usage - yes, looks like a hack job - yes again.

Basically I am pissed at my self for not pressing harder when I told them this set-up was not safe and it would not last.

However I didn't know how thin the walls actually are, and how brittle this material is. And I also knew they were not interested in some technical safety B.S.

But they will listen Monday!

 

[Olafur]

Also OP, how are injuries unknown? Seems like you would know if someone was injured or not since you are taking pictures.

Shop is closed during weekends. I went there just before midnight Saturday evening and noticed the air was off and discovered this.

 

[boobag]

if you read the writing on the pipe, it says "pn10" as in max pressure is 10 bar. and they were running 9 bar? it looks like they used the cheapest material possible.

 

[Alfanuts]

Maybe the pressure switch off valve failed and overpressurised the system.

 

[larry4406]

PVC air lines - just say no.

 

[hpw]

Anyone got hurt? - unknown.

just look for the blood trail or the bodies

 

[Shadowdog500]

No expert here, but I see a lot wrong with that whole set up beyond the pvc. My pvc is good so far after three years.

The thing with a time bomb is you don't know if and when it will explode. You have a time bomb in your shop.

Chris

 

[DekeT]

if you read the writing on the pipe, it says "pn10" as in max pressure is 10 bar. and they were running 9 bar? it looks like they used the cheapest material possible.

10bar of LIQUID, not gas.

 

[Showkey]

You got love these reports of ......"no problem yet"..............it's like saying I smoke 3 packs per day...and.....no cancer yet. So every thing is all good .......


Since we are in the garage.........never change the oil in the new truck........all good .....I am at 65,000... no problems

Lucky we live in America .....where we can do what ever we want.......( until someone else gets hurt) then you just claim I didn't know it was problem.

 

[WhiffySpark]

One of our shops is plumb with pvc. 1 inch for the normal air tools / lifts. 1.25 for the 1 inch guns.

I'm at a different location now with steel pipes. But a horrible design. We have no drops and nothing but water all the time.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Why do people still defend/use that ****?

 

[Kevin54]

Why do people still defend/use that ****?

^^^^This^^^^

To me, using PVC is nothing but cutting corners for a DIY'er. Go the extra and use some actual pipe that you KNOW won't explode into shrapnel.

 

[djjsr]

is that pvc rated for air? it looks really thin.

I've never seen ANY pvc that is rated for air. If someone knows of it's existence, please post.

 

[slodat]

I recently bought RapidAir Maxline for my new shop. My really good friend, a journeyman machinist, was over. He says he uses PVC for air. I mentioned the issues with it. His defense; my dad and I have used it for years without issue. I mention it's not rated for compressed air. He's a very smart guy. I dropped it. No sense alienating my friend when he's convinced. :/

 

[K13]

Why do people still defend/use that ****?

Because they are lazy and cheap but don't want to admit it.

 

[joe_padavano]

I've never seen ANY pvc that is rated for air. If someone knows of it's existence, please post.

Not that I would ever use or advocate PVC for air lines, but why does "air" vs. "liquid" matter? Pressure is pressure and the line will fail at a certain PSI whether the pressure comes for water or air. Pressure rating of the lines/fittings and workmanship of the assembly are the only things that matter.

 

[The Cobbler]

Not that I would ever use or advocate PVC for air lines, but why does "air" vs. "liquid" matter? Pressure is pressure and the line will fail at a certain PSI whether the pressure comes for water or air. Pressure rating of the lines/fittings and workmanship of the assembly are the only things that matter.

compressed air has stored energy. liquid doesn't compress so no stored energy

fill a balloon with air & poke it, what happens?
fill a balloon with water & poke it, what happens?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

That was all obviously all photoshopped. Everyone knows PVC is the perfect material for compressed air lines...

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

if you read the writing on the pipe, it says "pn10" as in max pressure is 10 bar. and they were running 9 bar? it looks like they used the cheapest material possible.

32 mm PVC-U EN 1452 is rated at 15 bar, not 10...

Tommy

 

[csargents1546]

Had pvc air lines in my garage from previous owner. Was doing some work, BOOM as one of the fittings shattered.scared the hell out of me. Sent debris all over the shop. That is when I found this forum. Addional research states that the oil from a compressor actually attacks the glue joints. PVC is a petroleum product. Petroleum dissolves petroleum. After that I ripped it all out and went with black pipe. Never had a problem after that. The other issue is pvc is not impact rated. The smallest impact can cause it to shatter and release all that energy stored in compressed air.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Not that I would ever use or advocate PVC for air lines, but why does "air" vs. "liquid" matter? Pressure is pressure and the line will fail at a certain PSI whether the pressure comes for water or air. Pressure rating of the lines/fittings and workmanship of the assembly are the only things that matter.

What about compressor oil that does get in the line and degrades it over time.
What about the fact that PVC gets brittle over time.
What if you accidently hit it with a ladder(or something else) and it explodes mid line(which has nothing to do with installation error)
What about the fact that the manufacturers specifically state that it is not to be used for compressed air above ground.

People have been killed from PVC air lines exploding, why even play the time bomb game.


Chris

 

[Cypherian]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-pressures-d_796.html

Maximum operating and required minimum bursting pressures at 73oF (23oC) for PVC pipe fittings according ASTM D1785 "Standard Specification for Poly Vinyl Chloride (PVC) Plastic Pipes Schedules 40 and 80 are indicated in the diagram and table below:



1.ASTM D2466 - 06 Standard Specification for Poly(Vinyl Chloride) (PVC) Plastic Pipe Fittings, Schedule 40
2.ASTM D2467-04e1 Standard Specification for Poly(Vinyl Chloride) (PVC) Plastic Pipe Fittings, Schedule 80
•1 psi (lb/in2) = 6,894.8 Pa (N/m2)

Note! The maximum operating pressures derates with temperature. At the maximum operating temperature for PVC - 140oF (60oC) - the strength is derated to approximately 20% of the strength at 73oF (23oC).

Be aware that maximum operating pressures varies with the fittings design. Consult the manufacturing data.

 

[DekeT]

What would you have me infer from this chart? That pvc is good for hundreds of psi pressure?

 

[Lassen Forge]

PVC pipe is great for some things...

Compressed gasses aren't one of them.

Ever leave PVC pipe outside in the sun and forget about it for a few years - then go pick it up? Your air lines are also exposed to daylight and sitting there for years.

But hey, if you want to have something like this around your home shop, where your sweetie and/or rugrats may bump into it by accident... or just have it get old, brittle, and go off... or in a shop where you're working and get a faceful of 9bar fed shrapnel...

Adding tot his... what blew up - looks like CONDUIT service, not PRESSURIZED service PVC... when I saw the gray color and how thin the walls were, it made my hair stand on end. Looks like the same stuff we ran wires inside of both here and over in Italy.

Me? I think I'd be either making sure they replace that junk with metal tubing or piping made for pressurized air service. Sure, steel or copper is expensive, but what is a life (or a pair of eyes or a hand) worth? IF they don't care (or are too cheap to do it right), then I'd be working somewhere else. Sooner rather than later!

 

[Strouty]

compressed air has stored energy. liquid doesn't compress so no stored energy

fill a balloon with air & poke it, what happens?
fill a balloon with water & poke it, what happens?

This is the best answer that puts it into caveman terms. Now if you don't understand, please do not breed.

 

[Firebird 1]

That is why I would never use plastic for an air line. I have copper and black iron.

 

[Kevin54]

Not that I would ever use or advocate PVC for air lines, but why does "air" vs. "liquid" matter? Pressure is pressure and the line will fail at a certain PSI whether the pressure comes for water or air. Pressure rating of the lines/fittings and workmanship of the assembly are the only things that matter.

Air and liquid compresses at different rates. And if PVC was ACTUALLY a good product for airlines, you would see everyone using it. The fact that it can send shrapnel when it explodes, joint failure, etc., is why you don't see it on the market and also see all kinds of warnings about using PVC for air. But beause of the fact that someone see printing that says the PVC is good to 250lbs of pressure, they think that the PVC will also take 250lbs of air pressure also. In reality, that is not the case though.

If someone was near that line when it exploded, and did not have safety glasses on, chances are someone could have possibly lost an eye, hit a jugular, or something else, by the shrapnel. Hopefully no one was hurt when it exploded.

When it comes to PVC air lines on Garage Journal, we may come across as assholes and very abrasive, but we do care about others on here, and would honestly hate to see anyone hurt by an exploding PVC air line. So please.......if anyone has them, don't keep buying your time. Bite the bulled and swap it out for iron, or swap it out for a longer air hose until you get the runs replaced. Lead by example, and not a statistic of accident. It's no different than using a jack under a vehicle and crawling underneath. The jack may be rated for 5,000 pounds, but you don't want to crawl underneath without added support. And most will heed those cautions, but with air lines they won't. I need to run air lines in my place, and could DIY it easily with PVC, but I'll use extra long air hose until I can properly do things correctly, and do so in a safe manner that will outlast me.

 

[Olafur]

Update:
They were working but no one was close to the explosion, so thankfully no injuries. It seems "nothing happened" to the line, it just burst ....out of the blue.

Heat was hardly the problem since this outlet is (was) over 150ft from the compressor, and air usage was minimal.
-----

Here I found some info regarding the pipe:
http://www.ipsflowsystems.com/pdfs/pvcu/pvcuabout.pdf

PVC-U pipes according to BS/EN 1452 (formerly BS 3505/6) and PVC-U fittings according to BS 4346 use the ‘class’ system of
pressure rating their components. Regardless of size, pipes and fittings are rated for use at a maximum working pressure accord
ing
to the ‘class’.

So PN10 means 10 bar max working pressure.

Maximum continuous pressure ratings
Pipes, fittings and valves are designed to operate continuously for 50 years at their maximum rated pressure at 20°C as follows
,
unless otherwise stated

Not sure how fluctuating pressure plays into this.

Finally they say:

Chemical resistance
PVC-U has excellent chemical resistance to common industrial
chemicals such as acids, bases and salt solutions. Resistance to
sodium hypochlorite solutions is also very good. PVC-U is not
resistant to aromatic and chlorinated hydrocarbons, solvents,
esters and ketones. The chemical resistance should be checked
with our technical department for applications involving varnish,
oils or fats, and PVC-U is not recommended for use with
compressed air or gases.

 

[fourjeepin]

Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015

Because they are lazy and cheap but don't want to admit it.

No need for insults. Some were just not informed when they installed it. I had it in my old house for 6 years and in my current for 4 years. Wasn't aware of the issues until after installed at the new place.

 

[hpw]

Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015

No need for insults. Some were just not informed when they installed it. I had it in my old house for 6 years and in my current for 4 years. Wasn't aware of the issues until after installed at the new place.

Excatly....
Installed a air line in a commercial warehose (where i was employed and still am) with PVC. Was randomly searching the internet and found garagejournal. Saw a thread on pvc airlines and the hazard potential. Showed my boss and he agreed we needed to tear it out. We redid the lines with black iron pipe

 

[bczygan]

Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015

Excatly....
Installed a air line in a commercial warehose (where i was employed and still am) with PVC. Was randomly searching the internet and found garagejournal. Saw a thread on pvc airlines and the hazard potential. Showed my boss and he agreed we needed to tear it out. We redid the lines with black iron pipe

I love it when GJ helps in this way.

This is one thread subject that does bear repeating, so it will come up in Google, and help educate people.

 

[gorilla]

QUOTE=Kevin54;5017648]Air and liquid compresses at different rates. And if PVC was ACTUALLY a good product for airlines, you would see everyone using it. The fact that it can send shrapnel when it explodes, joint failure, etc., is why you don't see it on the market and also see all kinds of warnings about using PVC for air. But beause of the fact that someone see printing that says the PVC is good to 250lbs of pressure, they think that the PVC will also take 250lbs of air pressure also. In reality, that is not the case though.

If someone was near that line when it exploded, and did not have safety glasses on, chances are someone could have possibly lost an eye, hit a jugular, or something else, by the shrapnel. Hopefully no one was hurt when it exploded.

When it comes to PVC air lines on Garage Journal, we may come across as assholes and very abrasive, but we do care about others on here, and would honestly hate to see anyone hurt by an exploding PVC air line. So please.......if anyone has them, don't keep buying your time. Bite the bulled and swap it out for iron, or swap it out for a longer air hose until you get the runs replaced. Lead by example, and not a statistic of accident. It's no different than using a jack under a vehicle and crawling underneath. The jack may be rated for 5,000 pounds, but you don't want to crawl underneath without added support. And most will heed those cautions, but with air lines they won't. I need to run air lines in my place, and could DIY it easily with PVC, but I'll use extra long air hose until I can properly do things correctly, and do so in a safe manner that will outlast me.[/QUOTE]

By definition liquids do not compress.

 

[Caman]

compressed air has stored energy. liquid doesn't compress so no stored energy

fill a balloon with air & poke it, what happens?
fill a balloon with water & poke it, what happens?

Actually in a contained form like was in the pipe, 9 bar air is the same as 9 bar liquid, it is exerting the same pressure on the pipe.

Now if you are looking at the amount of energy behind the liquid or air when released since the air is compressed it has more energy but only when released.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Black Iron pipe in mine, But I have a close friend that when he showed me his shop, it has pvc pipe in it, I tried to warn him about it and his answer was the same as every one else's "it has been in for 10 yrs and have not had a problem with it. I will not go back into his shop until it is changed, My life is worth more than pvc pipe is... I guess I will never go back into his shop...Good guy, just hard headed.

 

[bczygan]

QUOTE=Kevin54;5017648]Air and liquid compresses at different rates. And if PVC was ACTUALLY a good product for airlines, you would see everyone using it. The fact that it can send shrapnel when it explodes, joint failure, etc., is why you don't see it on the market and also see all kinds of warnings about using PVC for air. But beause of the fact that someone see printing that says the PVC is good to 250lbs of pressure, they think that the PVC will also take 250lbs of air pressure also. In reality, that is not the case though.

If someone was near that line when it exploded, and did not have safety glasses on, chances are someone could have possibly lost an eye, hit a jugular, or something else, by the shrapnel. Hopefully no one was hurt when it exploded.

When it comes to PVC air lines on Garage Journal, we may come across as assholes and very abrasive, but we do care about others on here, and would honestly hate to see anyone hurt by an exploding PVC air line. So please.......if anyone has them, don't keep buying your time. Bite the bulled and swap it out for iron, or swap it out for a longer air hose until you get the runs replaced. Lead by example, and not a statistic of accident. It's no different than using a jack under a vehicle and crawling underneath. The jack may be rated for 5,000 pounds, but you don't want to crawl underneath without added support. And most will heed those cautions, but with air lines they won't. I need to run air lines in my place, and could DIY it easily with PVC, but I'll use extra long air hose until I can properly do things correctly, and do so in a safe manner that will outlast me.

By definition liquids do not compress.[/QUOTE]

Ummmmm.......liquids, including water DO compress.

http://www.answers.com/Q/Can_a_liquid_be_compressed