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PVC underground with rigid/IMC aboveground?

FordTruckWench

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Jan 8, 2015
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539
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I'm helping friends run more power to their garage.

The situation: Detached garage 26 feet from a house. Main panel is surface mounted at the corner of the house - so about 28 feet to the garage. There is a foundation pier for a deck support right on the straight line route. Currently wired via 3/4 buried conduit - steel at the house, and plastic at the garage end.

Option 1: A PVC 90 elbow, two 10' sticks of schedule 40 PVC, a 45 elbow (to dogleg around the deck pier), a partial stick of schedule 40, and another 90 elbow underground. Then aboveground at each end a half stick schedule 80 PVC riser, topped with a PVC male threaded adapter at the main panel end, and an LB conduit body feeding through the wall into the back of the subpanel.

Option 2: Underground the same as option 1. Each 90 elbow is topped with a male threaded adapter, then a steel coupling, and then a half stick of rigid steel or IMC. This connection is underground and uses the factory threading on the steel conduit. Male PVC into female steel keeps the plastic from eventually splitting. Both risers are topped with a compression connector. One goes into the main panel, the other threads into a metal LB.

Both ends of this conduit run are in high traffic areas. There's some steel conduit on site. It looks good despite being 50 to 65 years old. There's also PVC that's perhaps 30 years old. Although this conduit itself is not broken, it looks dumpy, floppy and is sagging. All PVC retaining straps and weatherproof receptacles were broken.

Which option should we choose: Continuous PVC? Or transitioning to metal aboveground?

Also what size? At minimum we'll run copper THWN 6-6-6-10. I am suggesting 4-4-4-8. The 6ga could in theory be in 3/4. The 4ga fits in 1 inch, except the schedule 80 needs to be 1 1/4. I am leaning towards 1 1/4 but how about 1 1/2? (The panel knockouts fit a max of 1 1/2.)
 
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Aceman

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Can you post pics?

From experience, I can tell you that if you run 6's, use 1" minimum. 4's, 1 1/4. PVC is cheap, and in the sizes you're thinking about using, it's not any harder to run even bumping up a size. You WILL be glad you did it when you pull the wire.
 

RoyBell

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Chicago
Run pvc below grade and imc/rmc above grade. You can use a female adapter and thread the heavywall right into it. Nothing will split and you save on having to buy 1 threaded coupling ( a stick should already come with one).

Wire size is dependent on what he has out there. #6 should be sufficient for most any regular garage loads. If he plans to have more tools and welders, you should look at 4s to be safe.

What size breaker is currently feeding the sub-panel?

1.25 vs 1" pvc and rmc cost difference is so minimal. Go with the largest you can to save your back when you are pulling.

I don't think you need 80 below grade. 40 should be sufficient, or at least it is here.
 
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Norcal

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1 1/4" or 1 1/2" PVC SCH 40 underground w/ SCH 80 aboveground is going to be the easiest, using IMC, or rigid above ground will be more expensive & difficult as either the pipe will have to be threaded or a compression connector has to used on one end.

The following photo is a indoor panel in the background and PVC with female adapters transitioning to EMT, but it would not have been much harder to use IMC there instead.

 
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FordTruckWench

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Can you post pics?

Not much to photo at the moment.

if you run 6's, use 1" minimum. 4's, 1 1/4.

I've already decided on at least 1 1/4. The question is do we max out to 1 1/2? Or would that be overkill.

You can use a female adapter and thread the heavywall right into it. Nothing will split and you save on having to buy 1 threaded coupling ( a stick should already come with one).

The following photo is a indoor panel in the background and PVC with female adapters transitioning to EMT, but it would not have been much harder to use IMC there instead.

I've read that when connecting plastic and metal water pipes, it is important to use a plastic male and metal female configuration. Otherwise the female adapter (which is under tension) can break, especially if the connection is overtightened.

What size breaker is currently feeding the sub-panel?

:lol: 240V 30A on 10ga wires without a ground. And no, neutral and ground were not bonded in the old panel - the panel simply has(had) no provisions for any ground wiring at all! The intent of this exercise is to handle a 240V compressor and/or weld thicker material. The 10ga hookup is obviously not original - I don't know how it would have been connected when the property was built.

using IMC, or rigid above ground will be more expensive & difficult as either the pipe will have to be threaded or a compression connector has to used on one end.

The above ground portions shouldn't need more than about half a stick of conduit. That means we can cut a stick in half, use the factory threaded ends to connect to the PVC, and use compression fittings at the top ends. At the subpanel end, this fitting would provide a useful degree of freedom - it'll allow the LB conduit body to be rotated exactly as needed.

I checked pricing and came up with these totals:
1 1/4 all PVC: $32
1 1/2 all PVC: $39
1 1/4 PVC/IMC mix: $74
1 1/2 PVC/IMC mix: $89
I may get pushback on these. My friend is the type that will do horrible hacks. (This is why I'm upgrading the wiring!) This is also why 6ga is even being considered.
 

CNGsaves

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KS and OK
Just go 1 1/2 sch 40 conduit in the ground and Sch 80 when above ground . . .
. . . . . BUT . . . . . .
I'd recommend go with MHF Al 2-2-2-4 wire (mobile home feeder) since you'll be in conduit end-to-end. Wire is cheap at $1.50/ft and will future-proof the garage up to 90 Amp.
 
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