Q: Issue with Adjustable Flex Head Drive Tools

[diyer999]

Hello,

I have about a dozen adjustable type flex head drive tools, ratchets and breaker bars in various lengths, in 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive, all of them Snap-on except for one SK. I am having an issue with the 3/8 drive models. I like the flex part to be very tight. I have noticed that I can easily adjust the 1/2 drive tools to retain the adjustment-tension of the flex in any position I want. But not so with the 3/8 drive tools. The tension on those flex joints only remains tight when the drive end is facing straight out, but as soon as I start to turn the drive end, it looses most of the tension and then sometimes even flops, like for a 90 degree turn of the joint. The SK is among the 3/8 and suffers the same issue, so its not a brand/model issue. All of them are virtually new. Is this the way the 3/8 were designed or are they defective ?

I have some additional information but I'm not sure if it helps to determine what the cause is:

--One of the ratchets that has a loose flex, has a 1/4 drive handle and 1/4 drive size fork -- different specs than the 3/8 drive Snap-on or SK.

--All of the Snap-on 3/8 drives use the same flex repair kit and have the same ID and OD of the fork.

Seems more like a quality control issue than a design flaw, because none of the 1/2 drive flex heads have the issue.

 

[gdocktor3]

Knock the pin out, get yourself a lock washer and grind it down to the same size as the stock washer. That will greatly increase the tension. I've done it numerous times, including Snap On and SK flex head ratchets. Here's one I did http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338626

 

[diyer999]

Knock the pin out . . . .

Mine don't have pins, they have screws.

 

[diyer999]

Did you try tightening the screw?
Shortening the screw?

Tried tightening, but not shortening. Tightening increases the tension only if the drive end is facing straight ahead inline with the handle. Of course, as I said, if I turn it to a 45 degree or greater angle it looses the tension. Btw, it doesn't actually flop around, its not that loose, but it certainly isn't tight enough to hold a large 3/8 drive socket (24mm deep) in that position. It might hold an 8mm shallow. Havent tried it yet, I just got disgusted with the comparison of the way the 3/8 flex tools VS the 1/2 drive flex tools perform -- ergo, my OP.

These screws are half threaded and half smooth (no threads), black in color, and the smooth part is also cone shaped and the end is the torx fitting.

thank you for your time.

 

[Heel2toe]

I have a 3/8 flexhead HF ratchet (yeah yeah I know lets not go there!) Better yet lets just say its a 3/8 flexhead ratchet. I never cared for how lose it was and being a cheap ratchet I said screw it Ill take it apart and see if I can tighten it up. I ended up trying to squeeze it in the vice a couple times and it sorta just sprung back. I then heated it up a little bit and squeezed it in the vice again and put it back together and it was nice and tight. I've been using that same ratchet now for a couple years and its still chugging along and stays tight.

Id imagine heating it up made it a little bit weaker but it hasnt failed on me yet. If you can get away without heating it up that's your best bet.

 

[ganymede]

Tried tightening, but not shortening. Tightening increases the tension only if the drive end is facing straight ahead inline with the handle. Of course, as I said if I turn it to a 45 degree or greater angle it looses the tension. Btw, it doesn't actually flop around, its not that loose, but it certainly isn't tight enough to hold a large 3/8 drive socket (24mm deep) in that position. It might hold an 8mm shallow. Havent tried it yet, I just got disgusted with the comparison of the way the 3/8 flex tools VS the 1/2 drive flex tools perform -- ergo, my OP.

These screws are half threaded and half smooth (no threads), black in color, and the smooth part is also cone shaped and the end is the torx fitting.

thank you for your time.

Sounds like the pin (or screw/bolt whatever it is) upon which the ratchet pivots is worn un evenly or is bent.
Either that or the holes in which the pin sits is worn oblong.

 

[T45]

Try wrapping the scew pin in teflon tape. Another member discussed this as a DIY fix in a similar thread IIRC.

 

[1cargarage]

Try wrapping the scew pin in teflon tape. Another member discussed this as a DIY fix in a similar thread IIRC.

I was going to recommend VibraTite, but 6 of one I guess.

The teflon tape or VibraTite should help if the cause is that the tension screw is loosening when the ratchet head is repositioned.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but the cause could be that either the inner faces of the "fork" end are not parallel with one another, or the outside faces of the lug on the base of the ratchet head are not parallel. That would cause tension to change whenever the head was repositioned. Going off of how they are made via broaching though, I highly doubt this is the cause, but who knows?

So yeah, try teflon tape or VibraTite. Good luck.

 

[johninct]

How about take the pin/ head off and either whack the fork with a brass hammer or compress it a little in a vise then reassemble.

 

[Wes J]

Why do people think the screw is there to tighten up the joint? It's not. The little spring in the joint sets the tension. It's not adjustable.

 

[T45]

the cause could be that either the inner faces of the "fork" end are not parallel with one another,...

was thinking the same thing, but man bending every single ratchet

 

[diyer999]

I have a 3/8 flexhead HF ratchet (yeah yeah I know lets not go there!) Better yet lets just say its a 3/8 flexhead ratchet. . . .

I also have a 3/8 drive HF flex head ratchet -- its really nice. Mine has a double hinge. And its the dual 80 type of technology. Some HF tools are quite the good value. Btw, Mine was loose too when I first got it, and I tightened it up. I put a [rubber] oring in the joint. It did work, almost too good. I don't use that ratchet very much, so, I would still rather have a more permanent fix, because I think the O-ring would last very long under constant flexing.

 

[diyer999]

Why do people think the screw is there to tighten up the joint? . . .

Two reasons: 1: Because we can and we want to. 2: Because my Snap-on dealer told me it can be tightened that way.

. . . . The little spring in the joint sets the tension . . . .

That maybe true.

. . . . It's not adjustable.

Well then, I better send out an alert to all those end users of these type of designed flex heads that it cannot be done.

Wes, sorry, I was being a bit facetious, because so many have been doing this tightening thing, among other facts. But to answer your reply more seriously, in fact, I was told by a Snap-on engineer that they abandoned the pin type because it would get loose sooner or later and couldn't be tightened with replacing the pin or using a larger diameter pin, and the heads would juts flop around (I have some of those loose pin types and always found that aspect of the flex head to be frustrating). He said the new design with the screw allows for tightening. So, that made sense to me and why would I question their engineer. But if that wasn't so, and the new design wasn't supposed to be tampered with, then why wouldn't they use a screw head with a proprietary security head that would make it very difficult to mess with, rather than a Torx? But I really cant say for certain, that's why I am here asking questions, etc.

Btw, where do you get your information to the contrary?

 

[1cargarage]

Well then, I better send out an alert to all those end users of these type of designed flex heads that it cannot be done

Please CC me on that alert whenever it goes out. Thanks

 

[diyer999]

. . . or the outside faces of the lug on the base of the ratchet head are not parallel. . . .

What exactly is this area you are referring to? Do you mean the tang (don't know the correct word) that protrudes out from the head and has the holes on each side.? If possible and you don't mind, and it is fairly quick, can you articulate or maybe draw a diagram to upload? . . .
Just wondering if it is anything I can check to determine the cause.

 

[diyer999]

Try wrapping the scew pin in teflon tape. Another member discussed this as a DIY fix in a similar thread IIRC.

I think I will try that before any of the other options, like whacking it with a hammer

As I told another member I put an O-ring in a Harbor Freight flax head ratchet and it tightened it up almost too much, but it does work. I don't think it will last if I flex it too much, figure the rubber will tear with all the tension in there . . . How well does the Teflon hold up?

 

[dnschmidt]

There is little hope that the tiny screw in the HF ratchet is going to pull 1/4 thick steel tangs together. All you're going to accomplish is stripping out the screw.

 

[diyer999]

There is little hope that the tiny screw in the HF ratchet is going to pull 1/4 thick steel tangs together. All you're going to accomplish is stripping out the screw.

Its a Snap-on ratchet that gets loose in the flex joint, not a HF. A matter of symantics or something similar, but I understand your point. However, if you read the thread, I said the male drive end is tight in the joint in the in-line position. It didn't strip the screw/bolt.

 

[tonyciambrone]

Why do people think the screw is there to tighten up the joint? It's not. The little spring in the joint sets the tension. It's not adjustable.

I agree to an extent. Once the spring is fully loaded, further tightening of the screw does nothing on the flex heads I have tried this on. The answer is probably a beefier spring...don't know where you would get one in that style or size though.

 

[1cargarage]

What exactly is this area you are referring to? Do you mean the tang (don't know the correct word) that protrudes out from the head and has the holes on each side.? If possible and you don't mind, and it is fairly quick, can you articulate or maybe draw a diagram to upload? . . .
Just wondering if it is anything I can check to determine the cause.

What I was referring to as the "Lug" and the "Fork":

What I was saying might be the cause (but I doubt it) is that the inner faces of the "fork" are not parallel to one another and/or the outside faces of the "lug" are not parallel. If that were the case, the tension generated by the pivot screw would vary as the head was rotated.

Again, I seriously doubt this to be the case because I'm 95% sure that at the very least the fork is manufactured via broaching, which would ensure that the faces are damn close to parallel even if the tension screw were loose or tight.

Try the teflon tape or VibraTite on the screw method. For good measure, clean any oil or grease from the faces so friction can aid in keeping the ratchet head from flopping around.

Good luck

 

[davethorik]

I agree to an extent. Once the spring is fully loaded, further tightening of the screw does nothing on the flex heads I have tried this on. The answer is probably a beefier spring...don't know where you would get one in that style or size though.

I bought a used Mac 24" breaker bar and I replaced the drive, as it was slightly twisted. Their solution was to mill a shallow circular counterbore around the through hole where the bolt goes on the drive itself, then sandwich a very thick split lock washer in the counterbore against one of the forks. I tightened the bolt as much as I could by hand with an allen wrench, it is super firm and smooth, I love it.

 

[diyer999]

What I was referring to as the "Lug" and the "Fork":

What I was saying might be the cause (but I doubt it) is that the inner faces of the "fork" are not parallel to one another and/or the outside faces of the "lug" are not parallel. If that were the case, the tension generated by the pivot screw would vary as the head was rotated.

Again, I seriously doubt this to be the case because I'm 95% sure that at the very least the fork is manufactured via broaching, which would ensure that the faces are damn close to parallel even if the tension screw were loose or tight.

Try the teflon tape or VibraTite on the screw method. For good measure, clean any oil or grease from the faces so friction can aid in keeping the ratchet head from flopping around.

Good luck

Well, thank you very much for taking the time to do that. Now, at least I have something I can check. I will also check to make sure the openings are the same diameter around and not oval , If both parts measure parallel, then I will try the Teflon. If not, I will make a warranty claim with the mfr. Much better options now. I'm glad I asked the question here. Again thank you, as well as, all the other replies.

 

[diyer999]

I bought a used Mac 24" breaker bar and I replaced the drive, as it was slightly twisted. Their solution was to mill a shallow circular counterbore around the through hole where the bolt goes on the drive itself, then sandwich a very thick split lock washer in the counterbore against one of the forks. I tightened the bolt as much as I could by hand with an allen wrench, it is super firm and smooth, I love it.

I think you just described the basic design, if not exactly the Snap-on design. It might not actually be Snap-on's design at all. Considering patent laws how they are enforced, the design may have come from some country where the patent law is not the same as the US. I say this because I see many brands using this almost exact design. They all have the adjustable screw rather than the older press pin. JMO on how it appears to me.

 

[WWheeler]

Why do people think the screw is there to tighten up the joint? It's not. The little spring in the joint sets the tension. It's not adjustable.

Snap-On disagrees with you.

Tighten the screw tension to allow the head to move as freely or firmly as you want.