Quality taps

[restorick]

This weekend, I purchased a used Matco set of taps and dies. Set was complete, with no dings. I needed to tap some 3/8-16 and 1/2-13 holes in hot roll flat bar. Even going slow I ended up breaking both taps.

Wondering what you all are using? Prefer USA made.

Thx,
Rick

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Davefr]

This weekend, I purchased a used Matco set of taps and dies. Set was complete, with no dings. I needed to tap some 3/8-16 and 1/2-13 holes in hot roll flat bar. Even going slow I ended up breaking both taps.

Wondering what you all are using? Prefer USA made.

Thx,
Rick

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Are you sure your technique is correct:
(line up the tap, rotate the tap <1/4 turn and then reverse to let the chips clear, use plenty of tapping fluid)

Quality taps would be:
- OSG/Sossner
- Hansen/Whitney
- Cleveland
- Butterfield
- Morse
- Greenfield

I buy all my taps from Ebay. (Name brand, NOS, HSS from quality US manufacturers). Taps are one tool that are unforgiving unless they're top notch quality.

 

[zmotorsports]

For cutting new threads I prefer to use HSS taps and dies vs. for cleanup I will use my cast set.

I have really liked my full HSS set from Fastenal. It is their house brand (FMT) and of very good quality, but not inexpensive.

I have also like Morse and Greenfield brand threading tools.

Also make certain to use a good lubrication as it does make a difference vs. dry. I've been using the Castrol tapping fluid that has Moly in it and have really been pleased with its performance. I can tell a big difference in how easily the tap cuts through the material with it.

 

[bobcatdan]

The matco taps are most likely Irwin, although I think they have started offering imported sets as well, not completely up on their current offering. Irwin tap and die and pretty good for a general purpose. If I was cutting threads everyday I'd look to a better H.S.S tap or die. For just cutting threads here and there, Irwin are fine. A lot of it is developing a feel for when stuff is going south and backing off before failed. So while there are plenty of better options than Irwin, for what you are doing, they are probably fine, just take it easy.

 

[stokefire7]

I have a mish mash of different brands as far as taps are concerned. As far as dies, pretty much all Ridgid from 1/8" to 4" N. P. T. Have some bolt dies for my 535 also.

 

[restorick]

On closer inspection, both taps had at least 1 tooth broken off the flutes. In spite of my gentle approach, it's clear they were compromised. Both taps say USA on them, I need to find a truck to get them replaced.

That said, as I get closer to retirement, it's clear that I need some better options.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Rick

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[LeeG]

I buy taps from McMaster, or Cleveland taps from MSC or Champion from my local supplier. Make sure you are using the correct drill bit for the size (5/16 and 27/64 in your case). Use a tap guide if you have problems getting the tap aligned straight.

Use plenty of cutting fluid (I use tap magic).

I have had real good luck using spiral flute point gun taps for through holes. I mount them in an Irwin collet and use my stubby 3/8" impact driver to drive them. I did over 200 1/4-20 holes in 1/4" steel this weekend using that setup.

Here is a good link on tap selection:

https://www.triumphtool.com/metal-working-tools-blog/picking-the-right-tap-in-metalworking/

 

[Whitworth]

Wondering what you all are using?

Whatever's on sale, good quality names. Don't care about country of origin (coo).

Cleveland, gtd, hertel, Osg, Guering, etc., etc.

HSS, carbide is too expensive for my purposes.

3/8" and 1/2" taps shouldn't be breaking unless they were super dull.

 

[Stuey]

I usually check MSC's sales flyer: https://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView?contentPath=/sales-catalogs/metalworking

I tend to like Cleveland for taps and 3pc sets and OSG for spiral taps.

 

[travisn1]

I've used many brands, but I'm never surprised when they break. Always a teeth clinching moment, usually when backing off to break the chip.

Once I was pretty successful at power tapping 100 4-40 holes in 1/8" al plate. Sometimes finding a way to use a clearance hole with a nut/bolt is easier.

 

[Mike Folks]

For through holes(open) I like two or three flute "Gun taps" where backing out is not needed,with the proper size hole and lubrication, turn the tap and keep going, bottoming taps will need careful hand work,though.

 

[Professional Tool User]

The matco taps are most likely Irwin, although I think they have started offering imported sets as well, not completely up on their current offering. Irwin tap and die and pretty good for a general purpose. If I was cutting threads everyday I'd look to a better H.S.S tap or die. For just cutting threads here and there, Irwin are fine. A lot of it is developing a feel for when stuff is going south and backing off before failed. So while there are plenty of better options than Irwin, for what you are doing, they are probably fine, just take it easy.

The Irwin Hansen ones and the various tool truck rebrands of it are garbage. My rebranded blue point taps and dies are simply too brittle. A tool store I go to sells both the Irwin and Gearwrench taps and dies. The guy behind the counter told me they were getting way more returns on the Irwin sets. I'd rather take my chances with a half way decent made in China set than buy the Irwin set. If I were to buy USA made, I'd go buy used machinist grade taps and dies from one of the brands others have mentioned.

 

[CobraRed]

The high carbon steel Irwin taps in that Matco set are extremely brittle. I've replaced many pieces with my Matco guy before, since they switched to the new source at matco they seem to be more difficult to break which is great because it's a whole mess when they do.

 

[larry_g]

I would have to ask if you had the proper sized hole to start with? https://www.guhring.com/Support/Technical/Tap-Drill-Sizes

The chart above gives drill or hole sizes for threaded fasteners. Most charts shoot for something aroung 75% thread depth but in many cased a 50% thread will work just fine. Per the chart above a 7/16 drill will give a 63% thread.

So what hole size did you start with? Did you champher the top of the hole before starting the tap? Did you use a proper cutting oil for the material being tapped? What method did you use to get the tap started straight in the hole? All factors in successfully tapping a proper thread.

Also being a Matco product I would have to ask if you have thread cutting taps or thread restoring taps?

On edit
I looked at the Matco site and it seems that the rethreading sets have hex dies and the threading cutting kits have round dies. Do you have round or hex dies in your set?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[matt_i]

Biggest issue I've seen is the lineup between pilot hole and the tap.

Easiest I've found is to use a drill press or mill and drill the pilot, then chuck the tap and screw it in by hand as far as it will go. Usually....there's enough thread engagement to continue tapping with a T-handle or a wrench from there.

Assuming good sharp tap, the Magic Tap (Tap-Magic) and spiral point "gun" taps which curl the chips ahead & into the pilot the hole with no stopping needed other than to reverse a single time. Mobil Omega and Rigid Dark are good thread cutting oils as well but smell like the LaBrea tar pits.

 

[zmotorsports]

To go along with Matt_i's statement above I have found that using a tap guide works well to ensure the tap is going in perpendicular to the work surface. I think it definitely helps for those who are fairly new to tapping holes. Hell, even as long as I've been tapping holes I still like to grab them much of the time to ensure the threads are straight. I bought mine years ago to aid my son but find myself using them quite a lot and they are quick and easy to use.

Just a thought.

 

[mowkep]

I'm a big fan of the steam oxide coated taps especially with the bigger sizes. I run mills and generally just cutting oil to tap. If it's stainless then I use the Tapco thick gel which does wonders. I've had trouble with 10-32 and some of the 1/4-20s of late not being great quality for whatever reason.

 

[BillK]

I have had the best luck with Snap On taps. Not sure who makes them. I use them in my valve seat and guide machine which is a glorified drill press. I have never had one break. I actually use the machine to drive them at 74 rpm. Lots of lube.

 

[woody 73]

Call MSC https://www.mscdirect.com/ and just buy the tap you will need for your job, just be sure it will be a High Speed Steel Tap. If COO matters to you then ask for one made in America, or what ever country that you will be happy with.

 

[Andy1234]

OSG Hy-Pro taps. I have driven 1/4-20 taps with an impact gun multiple times, they're almost indestructible. I usually get them off of ebay.

 

[bobcatdan]

I have had the best luck with Snap On taps. Not sure who makes them. I use them in my valve seat and guide machine which is a glorified drill press. I have never had one break. I actually use the machine to drive them at 74 rpm. Lots of lube.

Irwin. Snap on specs a nicer set with the 12 point dies, but basically the same otherwise.

 

[toddmorr]

To go along with Matt_i's statement above I have found that using a tap guide works well to ensure the tap is going in perpendicular to the work surface. I think it definitely helps for those who are fairly new to tapping holes. Hell, even as long as I've been tapping holes I still like to grab them much of the time to ensure the threads are straight. I bought mine years ago to aid my son but find myself using them quite a lot and they are quick and easy to use.

Just a thought.

something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MPAORO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[zmotorsports]

something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MPAORO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Exactly.

That is the exact brand I have. I have two, one in SAE and one in Metric. They work great and have a V-notch on the backside for round stock as well.

 

[dutchgray]

Any quality name brand and individual HSS taps, hard to go wrong but gets expensive quick compared to the sets aimed at mechanics.
I got lucky end of last year and bought a closing down machine shops entire collection of new and used taps and dies, apart from the BSP which someone else got first. About 80lbs of them, for almost no money really.

 

[Dave455]

O.P. Much good advice here, but I can chuck in my couple of cents worth.

I come from the engineering world, where you do quite a bit of tapping, compared to the automotive world.

First off, buying used taps is always a bit of a lottery. I’ve been fairly lucky, but I’ve had the occasional tap that’s blunt as anything and just won’t cut.

So, if you can, start off with a new tap, of decent quality. At least till you get more experience. I note your preference for U.S. made. Good idea. This side of the pond I tend to go for British made, but I’ve used German and Japanese without problems.

I’m generally unimpressed with these big sets, especially those designed for mechanics.. Better to get individual taps to start, and keep costs down by just buying what you need. A good source is MSC, if you haven’t got a copy of their catalogue it’s well worth a call.

Don’t get too hung up in HSS v Carbon steel. The main difference with HSS is that it retains it’s temper at higher temperatures. For hand tapping it doesn’t matter. Some folks insist on HSS, but by going for it they usually end up with a better ground tap than they were using, and that’s the difference!

Some materials can be hard work. For anything other than brass or the usual steels I usually consult a specialist. I have one I can ring, but again, for a big firm, I find MSC are great at this. I’m not familiar with hot roll flat bar, but wondering if that’s getting tougher for tapping?

What size tapping drill are you using? In my experience the ‘book’ sizes are just too tight. Opening up the hole just a little makes all the difference. (A firm I worked with were breaking taps at a horrific rate putting 4mm taps into a 3.3mm hole. Switching to 3.4 made all the difference)

I assume you are tapping by hand. Use some lube (proper cutting lube is good - MSC again) but remember it’s lube not coolant you need.

Starting with a new tap, you will develop a feel for when it’s cutting properly, and when it’s getting blunt. Tapping machines used in the aerospace world measure the torque required and switch taps when it gets too high. You don’t need to be that accurate, but you get the idea!