speed bump
Well-known member
Give me bang for the buck.
Quantity or Quality?
- Thread starter Bolster
- Start date
Lump
Well-known member
I]
Bolster,
Again, my ignorance is displayed to the world...
I see "MEH" often, but don't know what it means? Can you kindly enlighten me?
As for the quality vs. quantity debate, I find it impossible to answer intelligently and accurately without some explanation. And I'm in the office now, so I'll have to respond to that later.
[/I]
Bolster,
Again, my ignorance is displayed to the world...
I see "MEH" often, but don't know what it means? Can you kindly enlighten me?
As for the quality vs. quantity debate, I find it impossible to answer intelligently and accurately without some explanation. And I'm in the office now, so I'll have to respond to that later.
FordToughF250
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Messages
- 79
I coulda bought 3 grand of snap on tools (I did buy 3 new snap on ratchets) instead of 3 grand craftsman but when I showed up to diesel technology, I would be screwed with only half the tools I needed
blue dog
Banned
Some guys will tell you that a Porsche is just an over glorified Volkswagen.
I hope those guys know the difference between a 2010 porsche Gt2 and a 67 beetle.
Merkava_4
Banned
blue dog
Banned
I dig it when people think outside of the box, and gotta love the simple and clean 8.2 badge, sleeper that must haul the mail in light package.
Merkava_4
Banned
I dig it when people think outside of the box, and gotta love the simple and clean 8.2 badge, sleeper that must haul the mail in light package.
Yeah I thought you'd like that.
jethro29
Well-known member
if your choice is quanity,which equals more then that's what you'll get.more skinned knuckles,more cuts,more scrapes and more broken bones when your cheap *** tools slip and break.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
Merkava_4
Banned
I don't know, I can think of some things that quantity is better than quality...
I'm tryin' to think of what you're thinkin'.
billymade
Well-known member
Lump
Well-known member
For me personally, it is more of a process of tool acquisition, than preference between the two choices you offered.
And there are degrees of each choice to be considered also…
For example, in 1974 I was a newly-married tire-buster kid working for a Goodyear store in Dayton, Ohio. I had gotten really good at selling tires and auto service while fixing flats, rotating tires, changing oil, etc. So one day the boss came to me and offered to make me the next-guy-on-the list in the Dayton area to become a new mechanic. I would be given the next opening for a technician anywhere in the Dayton area. I was ecstatic, and immediately accepted. So the boss told me that the seasoned technicians at my store would now begin to officially train me on things like alignments, the “Sun Machine,” etc, etc. He told me that my training would take about 6 months, and that I would be expected to buy at least one tool per week for my own tool box, so that by the time my training was done, I would have at least a bare minimum tool assortment of my own.
I was in hog heaven, and couldn’t WAIT for the Mac and Snap On trucks to arrive. I bought two or three items from each of them that week. With all the coaching I was suddenly receiving from my technician buddies in the store, I was then more concerned with quality, than I was with quantity. However, fate was about to intervene…
Three days later, the technician in a one-man Goodyear service department in a nearby town suddenly quit his job, and walked out. My boss got a phone call from District Service Dept, and that was it…I was a technician!!!!!
(Just so you understand, I had grown up helping my dad work on our antique cars, and I was a serious street racer each night in the area. So I knew how to do a certain amount of mechanical work. But my formal training simply didn’t happen. I had never yet done an alignment, fixed an A/C system, etc).
That night, my shocked wife and I drove to Sears, and maxed out our charge card (I can’t remember if our limit was $500, or 1,000). I had a list from my buddy-technicians at my store, and bought brake and tune-up tools, suspension/steering tools, etc…plus an 8-drawer box.
So, on the OP’s subject, at that time in my life, I was definitely forced to choose quantity over quality. The only reason I bought stuff even as “expensive” as Craftsman tools was because that was the only place I had that much credit! (There WAS NO Harbor Freight back then, and the “cheap” tools which were available at that time were much worse, in my opinion.)
I soon found that I really needed more tools, and better tools, so I was an eager customer. (The Mac and Snap-On drivers never forgot to visit me each week in those days!) Over the next year or so, I was trying to keep my credit in line, but still buying tools which I really needed, and still replacing “good-enough” tools with better tools, which made a job easier and faster.
But after a few months of some very strong sales in my new service department, I was promoted again. This time I was moved to the position of Service Manager at our newest area store, at a shopping mall. Suddenly my job was more focused on sales and customer service. So I was no longer desperate to quickly fill out my tool collection with “quantity,” since I didn’t often do the mechanical work myself. So then I began buying only Mac and Snap-On tools off the trucks, with an eye on building a great arsenal of tools. Now I was more focused on quality than quantity.
About a year later, I got another opportunity. I took a test and was hired as an apprentice by the same AFL-CIO Sheet Metal Workers’ local that my dad worked for. This was about 1976 or 7, and I went from about $6 or $7 per hour to $14 per hour on my first day. NICE! But now once again, I didn’t have the right tools. And I quickly learned that the apprentices who didn’t have tools (and some bare minimum mechanical skills) got stuck with all the ****** jobs (ripping out old insulation from dirty factory attics in boiling summer temperatures, etc, etc.) So I began again to start actively buying tools. At first I was concerned with filling my box with the bare essentials. Thus I was again concerned mostly with quantity, not yet quality. I ended up buying many imported and second-rate tools, knowing full well that they were not good enough over the long haul. More importantly to this post…I was still working on my hot rods and classic cars at home, but could not afford the Snap-On and Mac tools I love for my home hobby box…especially while I still needed the sheet metal tools at work.
Now fast forward to today. I am self-employed, with a desk job. I still love to tinker with my Hupmobile, my 454 Chevelle, my 1958 Ford tractor, plus all the mowers and mechanical stuff at the shop, my home, and my kids’ homes. But “tinker” is the right word. I don’t use my tools to make a living any more. And I won’t do the really tough, really difficult, or really dirty jobs. So now I use my tools mostly to enjoy myself. And that includes collecting them. (My apologies to those folks who hate "tool collectors and tool polishers". I don't wish to upset anyone.")
My dad was killed in a car wreck at 44 years of age back in 1978, and I inherited his small collection of high quality older tools…mostly Mac. He had always preached to me that they were something really special, to be treated well and taken care of. And I still have my own tools which I bought new “back in the day.” I have deep appreciation and respect for these superior quality USA-made tools. So for a very long time I have bought any bargain-priced Mac, Snap-On, Cornwell, or other premium tool which I happened upon at a yard sale. I would find a few pieces now and then, and just toss them in my tool box to add to my collection. I thought I was the only one who gave a damn about these used premium tools, frankly.
But then I found Garage Journal. And now I have the fever, and keep buying premium quality used automotive tools whenever I find them.
I have a pretty good collection of tools now, and don’t depend on them for a living. So now, once and for all, I PREFER QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.
And there are degrees of each choice to be considered also…
For example, in 1974 I was a newly-married tire-buster kid working for a Goodyear store in Dayton, Ohio. I had gotten really good at selling tires and auto service while fixing flats, rotating tires, changing oil, etc. So one day the boss came to me and offered to make me the next-guy-on-the list in the Dayton area to become a new mechanic. I would be given the next opening for a technician anywhere in the Dayton area. I was ecstatic, and immediately accepted. So the boss told me that the seasoned technicians at my store would now begin to officially train me on things like alignments, the “Sun Machine,” etc, etc. He told me that my training would take about 6 months, and that I would be expected to buy at least one tool per week for my own tool box, so that by the time my training was done, I would have at least a bare minimum tool assortment of my own.
I was in hog heaven, and couldn’t WAIT for the Mac and Snap On trucks to arrive. I bought two or three items from each of them that week. With all the coaching I was suddenly receiving from my technician buddies in the store, I was then more concerned with quality, than I was with quantity. However, fate was about to intervene…
Three days later, the technician in a one-man Goodyear service department in a nearby town suddenly quit his job, and walked out. My boss got a phone call from District Service Dept, and that was it…I was a technician!!!!!
(Just so you understand, I had grown up helping my dad work on our antique cars, and I was a serious street racer each night in the area. So I knew how to do a certain amount of mechanical work. But my formal training simply didn’t happen. I had never yet done an alignment, fixed an A/C system, etc).
That night, my shocked wife and I drove to Sears, and maxed out our charge card (I can’t remember if our limit was $500, or 1,000).
I had a list from my buddy-technicians at my store, and bought brake and tune-up tools, suspension/steering tools, etc…plus an 8-drawer box. So, on the OP’s subject, at that time in my life, I was definitely forced to choose quantity over quality. The only reason I bought stuff even as “expensive” as Craftsman tools was because that was the only place I had that much credit! (There WAS NO Harbor Freight back then, and the “cheap” tools which were available at that time were much worse, in my opinion.)
I soon found that I really needed more tools, and better tools, so I was an eager customer. (The Mac and Snap-On drivers never forgot to visit me each week in those days!) Over the next year or so, I was trying to keep my credit in line, but still buying tools which I really needed, and still replacing “good-enough” tools with better tools, which made a job easier and faster.
But after a few months of some very strong sales in my new service department, I was promoted again. This time I was moved to the position of Service Manager at our newest area store, at a shopping mall. Suddenly my job was more focused on sales and customer service. So I was no longer desperate to quickly fill out my tool collection with “quantity,” since I didn’t often do the mechanical work myself. So then I began buying only Mac and Snap-On tools off the trucks, with an eye on building a great arsenal of tools. Now I was more focused on quality than quantity.
About a year later, I got another opportunity. I took a test and was hired as an apprentice by the same AFL-CIO Sheet Metal Workers’ local that my dad worked for. This was about 1976 or 7, and I went from about $6 or $7 per hour to $14 per hour on my first day. NICE!
But now once again, I didn’t have the right tools. And I quickly learned that the apprentices who didn’t have tools (and some bare minimum mechanical skills) got stuck with all the ****** jobs (ripping out old insulation from dirty factory attics in boiling summer temperatures, etc, etc.) So I began again to start actively buying tools. At first I was concerned with filling my box with the bare essentials. Thus I was again concerned mostly with quantity, not yet quality. I ended up buying many imported and second-rate tools, knowing full well that they were not good enough over the long haul. More importantly to this post…I was still working on my hot rods and classic cars at home, but could not afford the Snap-On and Mac tools I love for my home hobby box…especially while I still needed the sheet metal tools at work. Now fast forward to today. I am self-employed, with a desk job. I still love to tinker with my Hupmobile, my 454 Chevelle, my 1958 Ford tractor, plus all the mowers and mechanical stuff at the shop, my home, and my kids’ homes. But “tinker” is the right word. I don’t use my tools to make a living any more. And I won’t do the really tough, really difficult, or really dirty jobs. So now I use my tools mostly to enjoy myself. And that includes collecting them. (My apologies to those folks who hate "tool collectors and tool polishers". I don't wish to upset anyone.")
My dad was killed in a car wreck at 44 years of age back in 1978, and I inherited his small collection of high quality older tools…mostly Mac. He had always preached to me that they were something really special, to be treated well and taken care of. And I still have my own tools which I bought new “back in the day.” I have deep appreciation and respect for these superior quality USA-made tools. So for a very long time I have bought any bargain-priced Mac, Snap-On, Cornwell, or other premium tool which I happened upon at a yard sale. I would find a few pieces now and then, and just toss them in my tool box to add to my collection. I thought I was the only one who gave a damn about these used premium tools, frankly.
But then I found Garage Journal. And now I have the fever, and keep buying premium quality used automotive tools whenever I find them.
I have a pretty good collection of tools now, and don’t depend on them for a living. So now, once and for all, I PREFER QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.
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billymade
Well-known member
Those Craftsman tools back in 1974; were actually really good tools!
nice post lump. an enjoyable and well written story. it made everything clear as mud but also showed that what you need and what you want are not always the same. sometimes you just need to get by wich it sounds like you did. glad you are now in a place to get what you want.
Lump
Well-known member
Thanks, SK Farmer, sincerely.
I really do like these fine old tools. For me, the tools at Harbor Freight (or any other similar source) are just "appliances"...sort of like a washer and dryer. Nothing to get excited about, but they do the job. I mean, no one polishes their washing machine, and takes it out to an event to show it off to interested friends. It's just a boring machine that you must use. But premium quality USA and European tools impress the hell out of me just sitting there on a bench, and I really like looking at them, trying them out, and finding an excuse to work with them.
Indy_500
Well-known member
I will add to that, very good post, i actually read the whole thing!! lol.
TireTracks
Well-known member
Man, you must have been rich when you were a teenager.
I buy "cheap tools"( expencive to me) brands like craftman, Ace pro, channellock, Taskforce, Proformance tool and HF.
because it's good enough and i can afford it. It's not that i "dont know any better", i just cant pay $100 for a ratchet that doesnt do anything more than the HF or craftman will.
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Indy_500
Well-known member
I'm a teenager. I buy asian imports. I see no problem in buying a ratchet for $90 less that does the same thing as one that costs $90 more.
jeepnut24
Well-known member
Qualtity is what Ill take.... 
Both, or the highest combination of the two I can afford at least.
Both, or the highest combination of the two I can afford at least.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
I'm tryin' to think of what you're thinkin'.
Blowjobs would be one. Id rather have a bunch of semi decent ones than just one really good one...
Lump
Well-known member
arkangel06
Banned
I believe in "acceptable" quality.
I am a DIY home maker and I am no gear head so in many cases, I must research a new project because it may be my first and last time doing that type of work (installing a sink in my garage as an example).
Buying the best propane torch is not necessary. Also, I find myself researching alot about projects (because I do not know how to do anything) so I do not have an innate knowledge of what is best.
Although as an artist and designer, I make certain that my paint, ink and substrates are top quality where a SO fanboi may only see it as paint.
I am a DIY home maker and I am no gear head so in many cases, I must research a new project because it may be my first and last time doing that type of work (installing a sink in my garage as an example).
Buying the best propane torch is not necessary. Also, I find myself researching alot about projects (because I do not know how to do anything) so I do not have an innate knowledge of what is best.
Although as an artist and designer, I make certain that my paint, ink and substrates are top quality where a SO fanboi may only see it as paint.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
I use quality tools ( which does not necessarily mean expensive) for myself.
I also have a hard rule: do not lend out tools under any circumstances!!!
But reality is a ***** and I must lend out tools for various "political" interpersonal relationship purposes.
In these cases I lend out cheaply gotten inexpensive tools from a variety of sources ( Flea market, garage sales, estate sales, HP ect.) which I "write off" in my mind as a total loss. These are my "mass quantity tools" that I acquire all the time. Just for this purpose.
I just hope my wife does not reveal the extraordinary variety of tools I have in my possession.
I also have a hard rule: do not lend out tools under any circumstances!!!
But reality is a ***** and I must lend out tools for various "political" interpersonal relationship purposes.
In these cases I lend out cheaply gotten inexpensive tools from a variety of sources ( Flea market, garage sales, estate sales, HP ect.) which I "write off" in my mind as a total loss. These are my "mass quantity tools" that I acquire all the time. Just for this purpose.
I just hope my wife does not reveal the extraordinary variety of tools I have in my possession.
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arkangel06
Banned
Lump I read your post
Lump
Well-known member
[QUOTE=arkangel06;989867]Lump I read your post :thumbup: [/QUOTE]
TO: Arkangel and the rest of you Garage Journal folks: Wow, thanks for reading that whole thing.
I know it's too long, and I would not have been surprised if everyone skipped it. But it is the truth, and only by telling the whole story does it make any sense!
The only thing that I can add is that, these days I often end up buying large quantities of used tools, in order to get a good price on a few tools which I really wanted. So, even though I am often guilty of buying quantity, I would much rather buy fewer items of top quality...IF I could get them cheaply without making them part of a big package.
[/QUOTE]TO: Arkangel and the rest of you Garage Journal folks: Wow, thanks for reading that whole thing.
I know it's too long, and I would not have been surprised if everyone skipped it. But it is the truth, and only by telling the whole story does it make any sense!
The only thing that I can add is that, these days I often end up buying large quantities of used tools, in order to get a good price on a few tools which I really wanted. So, even though I am often guilty of buying quantity, I would much rather buy fewer items of top quality...IF I could get them cheaply without making them part of a big package.
kaffine
Well-known member
Thanks, SK Farmer, sincerely.
For me, the tools at Harbor Freight (or any other similar source) are just "appliances"...sort of like a washer and dryer. Nothing to get excited about, but they do the job. I mean, no one polishes their washing machine, and takes it out to an event to show it off to interested friends. It's just a boring machine that you must use. But premium quality USA and European tools impress the hell out of me just sitting there on a bench, and I really like looking at them, trying them out, and finding an excuse to work with them.
I wouldn't be to sure about that. Some people are as nuts about washing machines as we are about tools.
I go for quality as much as I can. There are times when quality isn't needed though. I am starting to learn to buy used quality items so I can get quantity and quality. Of course I can't afford qaulity for everything and some things I wont buy used. I know a few places to get a great steak but the bill comes in around $100 a person where I can get a good steak for $20 or an ok steak for $10.
crewchief888
Well-known member
+1
my tool buying/collecting has been going on since '76 when i started my apprenticship as a machinist, and still lives on.
i have no clue why i still buy tools.......
fflintstone
Well-known member
Can’t be either or for me. I want a lot of tools and I use a lot of tools.
I don’t own much snap on and have never bought any. 90+% of my hand tools are Craftsman. I consider them a quality tool. I have all craftsman sockets wrenches and screwdrivers. My ¾ drive set is an old ARMSTRONG. (With ¾ HF metric impact sockets) Somehow my pliers and other gripping tools are a mish-mash of older formerly American made tools. I could actually use more gripping tools. I could use more punches and drifts.
I like Milwaukee power tools; I have 14 of them, use them all.
I have a few HF power tools. They all work very well regardless of how little I paid for them.
The quality of Chinese tools is improving exponentially. The HF tools of today are leaps and bounds better than the ones of 15 years ago. If you use a tool and it fixes what needs to be fixed then it has done its job. It still means more though to fix something with one of grandpas old tools.
I don’t own much snap on and have never bought any. 90+% of my hand tools are Craftsman. I consider them a quality tool. I have all craftsman sockets wrenches and screwdrivers. My ¾ drive set is an old ARMSTRONG. (With ¾ HF metric impact sockets) Somehow my pliers and other gripping tools are a mish-mash of older formerly American made tools. I could actually use more gripping tools. I could use more punches and drifts.
I like Milwaukee power tools; I have 14 of them, use them all.
I have a few HF power tools. They all work very well regardless of how little I paid for them.
The quality of Chinese tools is improving exponentially. The HF tools of today are leaps and bounds better than the ones of 15 years ago. If you use a tool and it fixes what needs to be fixed then it has done its job. It still means more though to fix something with one of grandpas old tools.
fflintstone
Well-known member
I pray that every night I will receive the the worlds worst ********, but every other night they keep geting better than ever.
I pray that dozens of women I encounter will want to provide me with a really lousy ********.
You can't get twitchy about quality until you have a full basic set of tools. And no I would not rather have 20 Craftsman raised panel ratchets instead of my FHLF80, but I would rather have ONE craftsman ratchet than waiting until I can afford a Snapon.
strnjss
Well-known member
I used to just get the cheapest tools I could find. But as I get older, quality is becoming more important.
However, I'm not insane. I would buy a $50 Husky socket set, before I spent a few thousand for a Snap-On socket set. Yeah technically Snap-On is better quality, but I'm not using them professionally.
However, I would rather take a Snap-On, vs say a Harbor Freight, or Durabuilt tool (with plenty of exceptions of course).
Basically what I'm saying is there are levels. If the tool feels nice, looks nice and works, I'll buy it. I don't have to have top of the line, but I'd rather not have bottom of the line either.
However, I'm not insane. I would buy a $50 Husky socket set, before I spent a few thousand for a Snap-On socket set. Yeah technically Snap-On is better quality, but I'm not using them professionally.
However, I would rather take a Snap-On, vs say a Harbor Freight, or Durabuilt tool (with plenty of exceptions of course).
Basically what I'm saying is there are levels. If the tool feels nice, looks nice and works, I'll buy it. I don't have to have top of the line, but I'd rather not have bottom of the line either.
King Bojack
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2010
- Messages
- 241
Quantity or price is a function of quality as I see it. Quality is directly related to how much I can do or how much I can earn given an invested price point. As a tool owner/user I have to get the equilibrium point. Quality tool sets are useless if they cannot complete the job.
Coolabah
Well-known member
Hah ! I must be older than you. For me, I have had just one "quality" woman for over a quarter of a century, and haven't even momentarily considered "more quantity and less quality"
but as for tools- I have been VERY promiscuous, and who knows what sort of bugs some of those cheap hoes ( and spanners, socket etc ) have passed on to me.....
johnnybentwrench
Well-known member
I like quality tools. My thoughts on all the fancy tools are half of them not needed. Example, tool for knocking in freeze plugs or a cpiece of closet rod?? Snap on one is shiny and $$$ the rod came out of the trash or the corner of the garage, now i can go buy used quality tools with no scribble marks and get quality and more