Quest to PVC piping

[red94chev]

Backstory: Just bought my first house and most of the basement was remodeled fairly recently. I wanted to add a sediment filter but most of the water lines here are this grey pipe which I believe is Quest. The water heater is newer and is plumbed with PVC and some type of push-to-connect going to the Quest pipe.

Current Issue: So I chopped out some of the Quest pipe but had to T into the existing system. Is this the fitting I should be using? I'm getting a very slow leak out of the PVC side (like 1 drop per 10 minutes). I don't want to tighten it too much further and risk cracking something. Or should I use one of the push-to-connects like the water heater?





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[Lelandwelds]

Isnt that the stuff with the big lawsuit from the 1990s? I think everyone just replaces their entire plumbing system.

My first house had the flexible bad stuff from the 1970s. It failed at 3:00AM and the ceiling caved in while youngest was in bed.

 

[Northislander]

As Leland mentioned the grey tubing is polybutylene. Quest was one of the many manufacturers. I would remove as much as possible especially the polyb compression fittings they are prone to the nut cracking.

 

[kd3pc]

get rid of as much of the gray mobile/RV home stuff as you can. PEX is cheap, the connectors a bit pricey - but much less chance of a leak/failure in the pipe.

in any case I would get the slip connector as soon as practical.

 

[red94chev]

Which connectors are you advising to get rid of? The ones on the water heater or the one I put up, or both?

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[Lelandwelds]

PEX is nifty stuff. I made my first connection two years ago and I am still giddy.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PEX-Plumbing-Tubing-11916000

I think the oeticker clamps and push fittings ****. The metal ring or the expensive tool plastic ring are about the most mistake proof thing I have ever seen or done in the construction world.

 

[kd3pc]

anything gray and a connector or union or nut needs to go..down the line ALL of the gray tubing needs to go.

 

[red94chev]

I was born in '92 so admittedly, I don't know much about the polybutylene crisis except what I read last night on a quick search. The house was built in '90, should I assume the polybutylene is the original plumbing.

80% of the basement is finished and a have a hard time believing someone would leave all this knowing it was prone to problems but you never know. As nice as a finished basement is, I'd almost prefer unfinished for repair work like this. I'll get some more pictures tonight for you guys.

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[Lelandwelds]

Which connectors are you advising to get rid of? The ones on the water heater or the one I put up, or both?

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PVC is Ok. It is usually used only for drains or ag use. (I have some outside. It fails easily from freeze damage.) Gray stuff is the leak prone.

Ideally, replace entire system with PEX. PEX is beautiful.

Or, ignore it until it fails. You could be the one lucky guy. Google says it usually leaks not ruptures. Rotting and toxic mold from water damage isnt that bad a thing. You will just have to jack up your roof while replacing a few walls. And, then, replace your entire plumbing system.

I went through something similiar. Contractors said my bathroom work would cost $10k maybe more. It cost me $200 , one month of no water, and working every night until midnight. The wife and kids moved out. I joined a gym for the showers and the golden arches became my crapper of choice.

But, like I said, YMMV.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Congratulations on buying your first house at 25! I was drunk and stupid at 25. Home ownership is the most worthwhile PITA you will probably tackle. I try to fix things just once because I do not enjoy the work. I like "low maintenance". I choose things like Hardie plank and perennial flowers.

Push to connect fittings stink. Big Blue water filters are the way to go. I like the dual or quad density sediment filters. I was able to do annual filter changes at my last house.

 

[Firebrick43]

I agree that the quest needs to go but I don't think the PVC is much better. Works awesome for non pressurized drains and vents but it work hardens due to pressure changes. It's life is dependent on how even your incoming pressure, how high of pressure and appliances such as newer washing machines that cause water hammer.

As others stated pex is a good choice as is L weight copper if you don't have acidic water.

I would recommend pex a tubing no mater what(kink resistance is better) and the propex style connectors are much better than the crimps. They have better flow and there is no chance of forgetting/misforming a crimp. Most are put off by the $400 Milwaukee m12 tool but you can resell it when done for 350 on eBay.

 

[PCustoms]

Replace it with PEX.

Easy to do as a homeowner, cheap (ish) tools. That bytyl junk is a potential time bomb that will fail at the worst possible time.

 

[SARG]

I've had the PEX since the eighties and replace it with the Pex at every "leak" incident. The fittings for the Quest **** literally rots in place.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

OP I went through the same thing about a year ago at my house that was built in the 80s. I remodeled the lower bathroom and ripped out at much of the Poly pipe as I could. Most of the runs we're in the adjacent laundry/furnace room nest to it.
If you don't want to shell out the $$$ for a power crimper, they make a hand crimper and a smaller compact crimper that you use with a pair of vice grips. I used both because the compact crimper is easier to get in tight spots

 

[acer66]

As said before replace as much as you can with pex and I would not bother with metal pex fittings anymore unless necessary, just use the black plastic ones.

 

[Voi]

We bought our current home (built in 1992) back in late 2004. We knew we'd do a major remodel and were not too concerned when polybutylene came up on the home inspection.

We replaced all of it over the course of a multi phase remodel. At the last minute of remodeling the walkout basement it dawned on me that we still had a polybutylene supply line from the curb and I knew at least 18' of it went under the house and probably more if it angled towards the curb shut off.

So at the last minute I ran a new Pex supply line through the floor joists and coiled several feet up by where the current water main stubbed up into the house and several feet in a landing under the stairs. We then put drywall up and hid everything.

Sure enough within a year or two I woke up to water flowing down our driveway and had to dig up and replace the entire supply line.

This entire thing has cost over 30k, not including the value of any work I did myself. Most of that cost was the 6' trench I had dug from the curb and through both sides of our semi-circular driveway. Oh yeah and they hit solid rock for dozens of linear feet of the 100'+ trench. And I haven't even replaced the 100 square foot section of porch they had to jack hammer out to get the new supply line under the house.

I don't even want to guess what it would have cost if I hadn't ran that new supply line.

I guess my vote is do as much as you can now.

 

[6768rogues]

Did you have a home inspection done? The inspectors I know would not miss an opportunity to point out problematic plumbing materials.

 

[GMCGarage]

Either only use pvc for cold water only, or change over to CPVC, PEX, or copper.

 

[brewchief]

I think I see PVC, CPVC and polybutylene in those pics, I'm another replace it all with pex vote. If you have sections that you can't(or don't want to)access you can get PEX x polybutylene adaptors that crimp in place with the PEX crimpers.

 

[red94chev]

From what I've read, the saving grace may be that I have well water so there's no chlorine messing with the system. First picture is the area I just redid with CPVC (I'm no plumber by any means).

Sounds like the consensus is to replace it all with pex which is fine but 80% of the plumbing is above the basement bathroom and pretty much inaccessible without ripping down some drywall (second and third pic) I really wish the inspector would have said something but he didn't.

Last pic is where he spliced in for the new basement bathroom.

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[bad_idea]

I own a house built in 87, until it sells. It has the Quest piping. Got a phone call from my wife while I was out of town for work, dining room floor soaked. One of the connections failed on the quest right where it came out of the slab. Was able to repair the line, but it is only a matter of time till the next leak. Rather than chisel up the slab and replace all the pipe, I am selling the house.

If it were a simple matter of ripping the ceiling down in an extra bathroom, I would still be living in that house. Do yourself a favor, replace it all. Do your homework, buy the proper tools, source all of the fittings, do all of the drywall removal, then take a long weekend and replace that junk. Drywall repair is easy. Bathroom ceiling in a basement is a great place to learn.

 

[GMCGarage]

I own a house built in 87, until it sells. It has the Quest piping. Got a phone call from my wife while I was out of town for work, dining room floor soaked. One of the connections failed on the quest right where it came out of the slab. Was able to repair the line, but it is only a matter of time till the next leak. Rather than chisel up the slab and replace all the pipe, I am selling the house.

If it were a simple matter of ripping the ceiling down in an extra bathroom, I would still be living in that house. Do yourself a favor, replace it all. Do your homework, buy the proper tools, source all of the fittings, do all of the drywall removal, then take a long weekend and replace that junk. Drywall repair is easy. Bathroom ceiling in a basement is a great place to learn.

Do you have to disclose that you know there is faulty pipe in the slab when selling? I suspect you are going to pay to fix one way or another.

 

[Falcon67]

If the Quest doesn't leak, it should be fine - our old house had it and no problems because it was properly installed. It was kinda like the grand daddy to Pex and lots of idiots didn't do it right, along with some of the first wave stuff having material problems. Usually the copper banded stuff properly installed seems to work well enough. I was not about to try and rip it all out, no thanks. Anyway, I used Shark Bite fittings to transit between Quest and PVC because AFAIK, any glue will hurt the Quest - so no gluing fittings. Has to be a mechanical transition.

I'd estimate the Quest in that old house to be late 70s remodel. We paid for a 2 year home warranty when we sold in 2010 and the only claim they made was a water heater in 2011 - that heater was actually only 4 years old at the time. A O Smith too. We know the people and to this day, no plumbing issues reported.

 

[johnnyradiant]

The polyb is more prone to fail on a hot water line, and fittings or right around them are usually the first areas, or where there is rubbing or flexing from expansion or vibration.

There are sharkbites that have one end designed for polyb to pex or copper pipe, as there are also pex compression ring type fittings designed for polyb on one side.

Those Quest couplings are probably the most prone and I'm guessing the one in the picture was maybe reused when the pvc was introduced. I've tighten a few to gain a bit more time when I'm jammed for calls and I don't recall one breaking. Lots have tightened but it's a **** shoot that it will actually stop leaking. I've only done the 'tighten the snot of of 'em' when I've also had everything to repair handy, except enough hours in the day.

 

[vavet]

I own a house built in 87, until it sells. It has the Quest piping. Got a phone call from my wife while I was out of town for work, dining room floor soaked. One of the connections failed on the quest right where it came out of the slab. Was able to repair the line, but it is only a matter of time till the next leak. Rather than chisel up the slab and replace all the pipe, I am selling the house.

If it were a simple matter of ripping the ceiling down in an extra bathroom, I would still be living in that house. Do yourself a favor, replace it all. Do your homework, buy the proper tools, source all of the fittings, do all of the drywall removal, then take a long weekend and replace that junk. Drywall repair is easy. Bathroom ceiling in a basement is a great place to learn.

You're going to pay realtor commissions instead of replumbing a house? Does that make sense?
I had a single story in SE Georgia with copper pipes. The chlorine from the city water ate away the copper until it developed an underslab (or perhaps in-slab) water leak. Apparently this was a common problem. They could've hammered away the slab until the found it or they could reroute everything into the attic and drop new PEX pipes down into the walls. They had a cut open a few walls, but it's just drywall - a few coats of mud and paint and it looked the same as before.
It cost me about $2K in year 2000 dollars. Not sure how much more complicated it would've been if it was a 2 story house.

 

[bad_idea]

The piping is the final straw, not the only issue.

As far as disclosure, in the state of VA it is the buyers responsibility to investigate. I do not have to disclose anything. If I am asked, I will not lie. The plumbing is currently 100% operational with no issue. It is a ticking time bomb though that I would rather not deal with.

 

[JMartel]

Replace it with Pex. I replumbed my entire house (1959 galvanized piping which had shrunk down to being unusable) in under 2 weeks back in Feb. I believe the total cost was just over $1k, including the cost of the tool and paying for an expensive manifold rather than doing a trunk and branch system. Every fixture has it's own dedicated line from the central manifold with no fittings under the house so it's easy to shut off and no leak prone areas that I wouldn't notice for a while.

Mid-install, can see the lot of piping and the manifold.

 

[fourjeepin]

Inspector screwed you. That said, another vote for Pex. My basement had a ton of polybutylene. Some was replace and tied in to cpvc with sharkbites. I replaced the rest with pex, one section at a time. With a few extra push to connect fittings, you can replace the PB a little at a time and just move the push to connect fittings around.

I used the metal fittings with my PEX install. I have no idea if they are any better than the plastic, but since the PB plastic fittings were failure prone, I figured the brass was worth the extra expense.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Pex is great. They also have pre-soldered fittings if you want to go copper. Doing new pipe is relatively easy without leaks. The thing that will get you is that new pipe to old where the pipe still has water. I just use a shark bite on that last one and leave an access panel.

If you don't want to do the work yourself, sign up for Next Door. The social network for your neighborhood. Your neighbors will have had the same issues and can recommend competent and economical plumbers to do the work.

Good luck!

 

[Dragfluid]

PEX is nifty stuff. I made my first connection two years ago and I am still giddy.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PEX-Plumbing-Tubing-11916000

I think the oeticker clamps and push fittings ****. The metal ring or the expensive tool plastic ring are about the most mistake proof thing I have ever seen or done in the construction world.

How come?
I've used a crapload of them. I've got the proper tool for them. The sharkbite, not so much.

 

[acer66]

I am not a plumber but I used sharkbites quite a few times and never had a problem.

 

[haneyrm]

PEX for full replacement or solvent welded CPVC for piece by piece replacement is the only way I would go. Good advice on this thread.

Of course, in 1988, everybody was saying to get rid of that galvanized water pipe and polybutylene is the only way to go...

 

[Firebrick43]

I am not a plumber but I used sharkbites quite a few times and never had a problem.

Most people had no issues with polybutylene for years after installed. It not until 15-20 years down the road that it's issues rear their head.

Shark bites use rubber orings, and 15-20 years they will start getting brittle and leaking to.

 

[Dragfluid]

Most people had no issues with polybutylene for years after installed. It not until 15-20 years down the road that it's issues rear their head.

Shark bites use rubber orings, and 15-20 years they will start getting brittle and leaking to.

Yes, the Sharks are OK in a pinch. Just don't bury 'em in a wall. Exposed, if things start to go pear shaped, you can be aware of it.

Like one of the pros said quite a while ago about them. The "pro's" may ***** about them, but he's quite sure if, on a Sunday repair and it's 10 minutes to kickoff, the Sharks come out!

 

[Lelandwelds]

PEX is nifty stuff. I made my first connection two years ago and I am still giddy.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PEX-Plumbing-Tubing-11916000

I think the oeticker clamps and push fittings ****. The metal ring or the expensive tool plastic ring are about the most mistake proof thing I have ever seen or done in the construction world.

How come?
I've used a crapload of them. I've got the proper tool for them. The sharkbite, not so much.

I have developed a dislike of oeticker clamps and push fittings from gas hose and pneumatic controls. They catch on stuff and leak. Ferrules are much better.

 

[PT Doc]

Your inspector cost you a lot of money. Here in Colorado I have spoke. With numerous people that have had failures. It's so easy to spot this grey piping. How was that missed? Did you have an inspection by a qualified inspector?

 

[acer66]

It not until 15-20 years down the road that it's issues rear their head.

Shark bites use rubber orings, and 15-20 years they will start getting brittle and leaking to.

One I installed inside a wall is going to have its 15 year birthday soon,
guess I better change my number.

Is there any hard evidence/research on that?

Thank you

 

[Firebrick43]

Shark bites have only been sold for 15 years and code approved for in wall use for 10 years.

Any way the 15-20 years is not a hard number as there are many considerations but oring deterioration is well understood.

Parker design manual. Page 2-21
https://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf

But also please just use some experience you probably already possess. Any old cars rubber trim, steering wheels, vinyl seats, tires, hoses, belts, ect list goes on have there polymers oxidized, shrink, get hard and brittle and crack. Yes much of this can be accelerated due to high heat and uv light but I have seen tires never installed and stored in the dark for 20-30 years rock hard and weather checked.

Orings that have been in storage for several years will be much harder and stiffer than 6 month old o rings.

 

[Dragfluid]

I have developed a dislike of oeticker clamps and push fittings from gas hose and pneumatic controls. They catch on stuff and leak. Ferrules are much better.

I also hate them on anything that's "moving" like an air hose.
But in fresh water plumbing, the lines are static.

 

[acer66]

Shark bites have only been sold for 15 years and code approved for in wall use for 10 years.

Any way the 15-20 years is not a hard number as there are many considerations but oring deterioration is well understood.

Parker design manual. Page 2-21
https://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf

But also please just use some experience you probably already possess. Any old cars rubber trim, steering wheels, vinyl seats, tires, hoses, belts, ect list goes on have there polymers oxidized, shrink, get hard and brittle and crack. Yes much of this can be accelerated due to high heat and uv light but I have seen tires never installed and stored in the dark for 20-30 years rock hard and weather checked.

Orings that have been in storage for several years will be much harder and stiffer than 6 month old o rings.

Thank you, I checked their website and they guarantee them for 25 years.