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Question about 210.6 in the NEC

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shaggyant

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Yes you need separate wires for 10v dimming.

If its piped that isnt too big a deal. If its NM-b, its not so much a big deal either as southwire and other brands make an NM-b cable product that has dimmer wire built into the same jacket with the circuit conductors
I already have a 200 foot roll of 12/2 PCS Duo for the dimming. Like I said. If I absolutely can’t do 240v I’ll run a MWBC to the switch and two runs of the PCS duo from the switch up to the ceiling boxes. I’m just hoping I will have enough wire for two runs and to all the fixtures. It’s going to be tight and the roll was $225.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-200-FT-12-2-NM-B-PCS-Duo/1002715774
 
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sparky 1971

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I already have the lamps and I can’t return them. I got the .99 amps directly from a sticker on the box and the lamp itself.

PLT didn’t seem like a horrible brand nor 1000 Bulbs a disreputable vendor. At $50 for 14,000 lumens it seemed like a great value.

I’m not gonna lie, I like a lot of light. I want the lighting level of a big box store like Walmart.

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That's odd since the amperage will be different depending on the voltage. 100 watts at 120 is .83 amp, 100 watts at 277 is .36 amps, 240 is .41. At what voltage are they telling you is .99 amps?
 
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sparky 1971

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shaggyant

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I think you're good to go, but your local inspector should probably get asked.
CD

I think many local inspectors will say that the 120vac limitation applies to everything on a residential property including outbuildings, and 240vac lighting will be only allowed for commercial properties. It's best to check with your local AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) to be sure. As far as that goes, with modern LED light fixtures the total load shouldn't be that large. Double check how many fixtures you'll need.


You can use 240 volt. See posts 25 and 33.

Sparky1971,

I would think so but there seems to be some question on whether the inspector will be happy about it since it’s not a clearly industrial building and there’s a house on the same property.

Think I should just go for it and see if I get flagged?

It’s a super pain to get an actual inspector on the phone but he was pretty nice once I finally got him on the line last time. (I was trying to confirm what cycle we were on and make sure that once I pull a permit I’m locked in even if they adopt a new code version while I’m working).
 

mike93lx

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Sparky1971,

I would think so but there seems to be some question on whether the inspector will be happy about it since it’s not a clearly industrial building and there’s a house on the same property.

Think I should just go for it and see if I get flagged?

It’s a super pain to get an actual inspector on the phone but he was pretty nice once I finally got him on the line last time. (I was trying to confirm what cycle we were on and make sure that once I pull a permit I’m locked in even if they adopt a new code version while I’m working).
If an inspector is looking for voltage on a lighting circuit, you were going to get failed anyway. If the workmanship is good and you have stuff like gfci where necessary, I bet it never comes up
 

American Locomotive

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People are forgetting real vs. apparent power. 0.99A just means the light has a mediocre powerfactor (around 0.8), which is pretty typical of LED lights, really. Only high-end LED lights will have active power factor correction to bring that up to 0.99-1 PF.

Basically the light is only using 100w of power, but to the circuit and wiring, it "feels" as though it's using 1A or 120VA.
 

sparky 1971

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Sparky1971,

I would think so but there seems to be some question on whether the inspector will be happy about it since it’s not a clearly industrial building and there’s a house on the same property.

Think I should just go for it and see if I get flagged?

It’s a super pain to get an actual inspector on the phone but he was pretty nice once I finally got him on the line last time. (I was trying to confirm what cycle we were on and make sure that once I pull a permit I’m locked in even if they adopt a new code version while I’m working).
It's not a dwelling, it's an ag building. It doesn't have to be an industrial anything. It just can't be a dwelling. If it were an attached garage, it would be a different story so if you plan on connecting the barn and the house with a breezeway, get the inspection out of the way first :thumbup:.

And, I really doubt anyone is going to look to see what voltage the lights are connected to. I always have the panel cover labeled, but off the panel and leaning against the wall and have never, ever had someone pick it up and put it on so they could check to see what breaker does what. He's going to look at the breakers and see a two pole 20 with wires on it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just an example, I don't know if it's a good or bad example, but 406.12(1) tells us that TR receptacles are required in dwelling units, including attached garages and accessory buildings listed in 210.52. There is no adder to 210.6 to include accessory buildings.
 
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sparky 1971

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If an inspector is looking for voltage on a lighting circuit, you were going to get failed anyway. If the workmanship is good and you have stuff like gfci where necessary, I bet it never comes up
Around here, nobody is that ****. The inspectors are too busy to look for things like that. This wouldn't even require an inspection here since it's ag, but if it were a non ag shop and in the country, I would have a state inspection, and he has nine counties to cover. That makes for lightning fast inspections. If I were to go one county North of me, the county has inspections in place but those guys don't know what they are looking at so they flip a light switch and test a couple of GFCI's and get on down the road.
 
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RPH

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So all the lights on one circuit. When the breaker opens, you’ll be plunged into darkness. Always put lights on separate circuits to avoid plunging into the night while running tools.
 

sparky 1971

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So all the lights on one circuit. When the breaker opens, you’ll be plunged into darkness. Always put lights on separate circuits to avoid plunging into the night while running ttools.
Why would that happen if it's properly sized? Should he install an ATS and generator in case of an outage?
 

RPH

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I don’t put one lighting circuit in the shop. You never had a breaker trip? Did it dump all lighting circuits in the building?
So, your customers are left with the table saw running and no lights. A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.
Darkness in the shop when working is a poor practice.
 

mike93lx

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You never had a breaker trip? Did it dump all lighting circuits in the building?
Never. Only had breakers trip from equipment overloading it. I do keep lighting separate for that reason though.

In my current garage, I two have lighting split between two circuits, but that's just a function of how it was all wired up when the house was built. It would all be on one if I was doing it from scratch
 

billconner

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highly unlikely. the trip curve is way higher than that
I've have seen it happen, more than once.

One article on it: https://www.ametherm.com/blog/inrus... to LED lighting,and failure of light dimmers.

and another:
 

sparky 1971

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I don’t put one lighting circuit in the shop. You never had a breaker trip? Did it dump all lighting circuits in the building?
So, your customers are left with the table saw running and no lights. A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.
Darkness in the shop when working is a poor practice.
I can't say that I've ever had a lighting only circuit trip. Why would a properly sized lighting circuit trip? The main or feeder breaker could just as easily trip. I understand that things happen, but power outages are more common.
 

dscheidt

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I can't say that I've ever had a lighting only circuit trip. Why would a properly sized lighting circuit trip? The main or feeder breaker could just as easily trip. I understand that things happen, but power outages are more common.
I've seen led drivers fail shorted, which trips the breaker. In the dark ages, incandescent bulbs could have a huge current when they blew out. (the last incandescent bulbs I used trip the breaker every time one of them burned out, which I remember because I was living in a third floor apartment w/ the panel in the basement...)

I want two lighting circuits in a big space, so it's possible to work on half of it without having to rely solely on a temporary lights. That's a lot more likely than a breaker trip, I think.
 
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