Question about a double pole breaker

[scutty83]

I was installing a bath fan heater which required a dedicated 20A circuit and am out of spaces on my panel so opted for a 2 pole breaker. It has a small metal spacer that will not allow it to seat on the bus bar. What gives? Are they only compatible with certain panels? Thanks in advance.

I will upload a picture if I can figure it out on my phone.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

That is not a "double pole breaker" but rather, a "tandem" breaker. The difference being that the double pole is supplied off of separate stabs that are opposite "sides" of the alternating current wave, while the tandem is simply two individual single pole breakers that are supplied off the same stab.

That being out of the way..................

Your panel may have, toward the bottom of it, stabs with notches in them, that allow the installation of the breaker you are referring to. You don't give us any info about the panel, but if it is, say, a 30 space panel that is also a 40 circuit panel, then the bottom five stabs will have notches in them for these tandem breakers. Otherwise, it is not legal to install the breaker in the the panel. If the panel is a 4040 meaning it has 40 spaces and 40 circuits, then you are not allowed to use the tandems, as you can put 40 standard breakers in the panel.

Charles

Stabs which accept the "restricted" breakers such as the tandem you have.

Upper stabs which do NOT accept the breaker like you have.

Comparison of two 20/20 tandem breakers, one being designed for installation on any stab position (on the right side of pic) and only for use in breaker panels before a certain date (what that is, I cannot remember) and the one on the left is a restricted breaker, which will only install in a stab with a slot in it.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Look at the part number/model number of your panel. If it is something with a 2020, 3030, or 4040 in it, then you are not allowed to use any of the tandem breakers. If the part number is something like 816, 1224, 3040, or 4080 (only on panels made in the past couple of years), then it will accept a certain number of tandems to bring the total CIRCUITS up to the last number. The slotted stabs will always be in the bottom positions.

GE and Square D panels use a different scheme for restricting their tandem breakers, but it appears you do not have either kind of panel.

Charles

 

[scutty83]

I have always wondered how a panel could have more circuits than spaces...learn something new every day. I would probably not find a part number since whoever did the drywall texture did'nt bother to cover the panel before he started. I know it is a Cutler-Hammer and has 30 spaces and a 200A breaker.
I guess I will just pull a bottom breaker and check the stabs. Btw if it is'nt a panel that I can use these breakers, what are my options for adding more circuits? Should I just install a bigger panel?
Also, the house is a walkout basement built in '06 and I am in the process of finishing the basement and really need a subpanel down there. What size feeder would I use to supply a small panel? No high draw items, just tv, computer, and approx 20 duplex outlets. Thanks

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Cutler-Hammer BR series panel? {NOT the breakers with the pink handles (CH series)}

There should be a placard on the INSIDE of the door, the one where you label what all the breakers are for. It will have lots of info on torques for neutral and ground bars and other wire connections, probably list the part numbers of the breakers approved for the panel, and other important info.

 

[pattenp]

A give away if a panel can use tandem breakers is the label for filling out what the circuits are are split by a dotted line to make two entries for each space. Also a 60A sub-panel may be all you need which can be fed with #4 copper.

 

[scutty83]

Curiosity got the best of me. Went and pulled the cover its a Cutler-Hammer BR3040, so 30 spaces, 40 circuits. The only problem is they hung the panel upside down (buried feeder enters panel from the ground) and the forked stabs are at the top and used on all the tandem breakers (dryer, well, water heater etc.) and cannot move them as there is'nt enough slack in the wire.
I'm really thinking I would like to install maybe a 40 space panel anyway. The panel is flush mounted in the wall, is this a swap that could be done fairly easy? It does'nt look that hard except for trying to bend that huge feeder around but then again I might be missing something.

 

[pattenp]

It's not hard to put in a new panel. The pain in the *** part is the process of getting the meter pulled to cut the power and then getting the meter put back in. Here only a licensed electrician or the PoCo can pull the meter.

 

[scutty83]

It won't be a problem in my county. I live out in the sticks and and there is not much enforcement of anything. In fact, we dont' have any sort of code. Plus, when we had an ice storm in '07 they pulled my meter so I could run a generator without backfeeding and the guy from the PoCo gave me buckshot so I could shoot ice off power lines for them. True Story. I don't think I have had a tamper lock in my meter panel since I lived here. Haha
Also, I have a main breaker at the pole to kill the power