question about a meter socket change

[dlleno]

Hi.

I'm out to change the meter socket/panel on the side of my home from a 100A socket (with a single 100A breaker feeding the main 100A service panel for the home) to a 200A "all-in-one" meter socket/panel combination. The purpose is to power a sub panel directly from the meter panel, in addition to the 100A service of the home. I've pulled a permit for the work, and consulted the local power company, etc.

the existing meter socket is fed via underground direct-bury wire that is 200A capable (per local pwr company). these wires are not in conduit. conduit rises from the ground of course,entering the bottom of the meter panel.

The service wire entrance for the home appears to be directly behind the existing 100A meter panel. that is, the wires enter the home via the same exterior wall upon which the meter socket is mounted (well, just to the left of the meter, in a small breaker panel) .

my question has to do with the positioning/alignment of the existing service entrance wires to the panel, and the potential that they may not line up well with the new panel. The reason I'm concerned about this is that the new 200A "all-in-one" panel has its breakers located a bout 15" lower, with respect to the meter, than the existing panel.

what is the likelyhood that this will cause wire-length issues when I install the new panel? I can't change the length of the service wires going into the home, nor can I change the length of the length of the wires coming from the xformer.

Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what I might find when I pull the existing meter socket, and how to deal with a potential mismatch of wire lengths which might not line up with the new panel?

 

[where2]

Pictures are worth 1000 words.

In my experience, you are going to wish one or the other of these two fixed length wire tails was longer. If you're lucky, the house side is some sort of feeder in conduit.

My combo unit service entrance panel (with 8 breaker spaces + meter socket) is on the wall outside, and the panel that runs my house is on the wall inside (concrete block wall between the panels). My feeders go directly through the wall out the back of the service entrance panel (in conduit), hit an LB on the inside of the house, and go up ~8" into the bottom of the panel inside.

What's on the inside of the house where your panel feeder wires come through the wall?

 

[LXCam]

You should discuss the possibility of a junction box with your utility provider. If they'll grant you that variance, verify who will be extending the conductors and if its you, what type of termination will be required. I've been allowed to do this in the past (not resi work), but the splices were required to be done with a high press **** splice which is not a cheap piece of equipment for a full circle press type.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi.

I'm out to change the meter socket/panel on the side of my home from a 100A socket (with a single 100A breaker feeding the main 100A service panel for the home) to a 200A "all-in-one" meter socket/panel combination. The purpose is to power a sub panel directly from the meter panel, in addition to the 100A service of the home. I've pulled a permit for the work, and consulted the local power company, etc.

the existing meter socket is fed via underground direct-bury wire that is 200A capable (per local pwr company). these wires are not in conduit. conduit rises from the ground of course,entering the bottom of the meter panel.

The service wire entrance for the home appears to be directly behind the existing 100A meter panel. that is, the wires enter the home via the same exterior wall upon which the meter socket is mounted (well, just to the left of the meter, in a small breaker panel) .

my question has to do with the positioning/alignment of the existing service entrance wires to the panel, and the potential that they may not line up well with the new panel. The reason I'm concerned about this is that the new 200A "all-in-one" panel has its breakers located a bout 15" lower, with respect to the meter, than the existing panel.

what is the likelyhood that this will cause wire-length issues when I install the new panel? I can't change the length of the service wires going into the home, nor can I change the length of the length of the wires coming from the xformer.

Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what I might find when I pull the existing meter socket, and how to deal with a potential mismatch of wire lengths which might not line up with the new panel?

Unfortunately, even though u gave a pretty good description, pics will help us help u the best!

 

[dlleno]

thanks all. here are some photos. first up is the outside wall where the meter socket is mounted. note only one conduit -- this is the power source from the xformer. The service entrance to the home is through the back of the panel

 

[dlleno]

next is a close up of the existing 100A disconnect section of the meter panel, showing the service wiring from the breaker, going through the back of the panel into the wall. the meter itself is to the right, not shown. After the wires enter the wall, I have no idea where they are routed, except that:

1. there is no crawl space on this end of the home
2. I know the wires do not go through the attic.

this suggests to me that the service wires are routed through the main floor. probably there is just enough slack to make the connections shown. would it not be required by codes to secure the wire on the inside of the home? in other words, how likely is it that there is any extra wire length available? slim to none I would guess

 

[dlleno]

last is a photo of the new panel, held up next to the old.

 

[dlleno]

about the only chance I see of making this work, short of new or extended wire from the xformer, is to place the new panel on to the wall in such as way as to position one of the cutouts directly over the existing service entrance "hole in the wall". This will raise the meter itself and increase the length of wire required to reach it from the xfmer. however, moving the meter to the left moves it closer to the transformer -- so maybe this will yield enough wire to accommodate the higher meter.

if moving the meter to the left does not yield enough wire, then I believe the local power company is going to have to pull new wire, an activity for which they might charge me some portion of my four existing limbs .

 

[malibu101]

I have no clue, just asking....

The new box you have has the meter on top- Like for an overhead service drop.
Do they make a box with the meter on the bottom- For an underground drop like you have?
Or a new version of the side by side you have now?
Seems like you have the wrong box for the job.

 

[dlleno]

Locally I can't find any like that and suspect this is because local codes put a maximum height on the breaker but no minimum. The perfect storm in my case is that any all in one panel is going to place things differently from the existing panel... And the xfer wires can't b lengthened because they r not in conduit.

I'm thinking actually this panel may b the best after all because it puts the meter closer to the xfmr and breakers to the right. Might b able to squeeze just enough length our of the xfmr wires....

 

[pentavolvo]

Where is the panel in your house in reference to the meter

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Since this is an underground feed, the POCO's transformer wires MUST enter on the bottom left, and pass up thru the duct on the left side to the meter socket on top. However, you need to have the bottom of the panel positioned over the wires coming out of the wall in the existing disconnect. Something is not going to be long enough.

There are other types of meter/disconnect combos. If its possible to dig up the POCO feed and move it to the left, Siemens makes a really good disconnect, meter socket combo with additional breakers, but it is a reversed configuration from your existing one. It has the meter on the Left and the disconnect and breakers on the right. This would work well if you can excavate and move the POCO feed 18-24 inches to the left.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-...er-Main-MM0406L1200RGA/202276347#.UceZ6DfbZAo

 

[dlleno]

thanks good info. The poco xfmr feed can be moved easily enough. but Unfortunately. I don't think that panel is stocked locally as its designed for Georgia. That said I do see your point. I need to find a ring style socket in a side by side configuration. That way I don't have to raise the meter in order to match up the panel with the wire entrance to the house which is fixed. This us just the info I needed. Thanks now it all makes sense.

on edit: I've returned my (Siemens) panel shown in the photos. unfortunately the side-by-side siemens which is mfg for western US doesn't help me because the service entry knock-out on the right side is still too far below the meter panel. I'm looking now at Cuttler Hammer from a real Electrical supply house

Pentavolvo : do you really have five Volos? Lol j/K. The main load panel for the hse is located 60 feet away on the other side of the house in the garage

 

[pentavolvo]

No I don't have 5 Volos haha. If panel was closer it would be easy to run a new feed but as you said it goes through wall and not attic so easier said then done

 

[dlleno]

ok related question -- I found a CH panel that might work, BUT: is it acceptable to punch a new hole in the rear wall of the panel where no knock-out exists? this is to locate the panel over my existing service entry wires, while yielding an acceptable meter height.

here are some photos of the proposed panel, which is a cuttler hammer 8-8 configuration with CH style breakers (which are not installed). The screwdriver is pointing to the location where i would like to bring in the SE wires. On the 2nd photo you can see that the only knock-outs provided are at the very bottom of the load-side of the panel, which circumvents the very problem I am trying to solve, i.e bring the SE wires in at approximately the same level as the meter. I assume this is acceptable but I have asked my poco.

the third photo shows that the left-side meter connection is from the bottom, i.e. the incoming wires from the xfmr do not have to rise above the meter, curl around and back down to attach. this will save the day for me as well, in terms of my xfrmer wire length.

If it is acceptable to "punch your own", there must be some guidelines if not requirements? FYI I have asked the local inspector and awaiting his answer, which unfortunately is not readily forthcoming lol. some inspectors enjoy finding fault more than they enjoy preventing it

 

[dlleno]

just to contribute what I've learned, in answer to my own question: one can punch out new holes as long as they don't affect any labels, compromise the structure of the box, partially cut through any existing knock-outs, and the new hole allows good wiring clearances, etc.

as it turned out I had enough existing SE wire in the wall, so I didn't have to punch anything. I used the above CH (Eaton) panel with a pair of 100A breakers (one for home and one for the sub panel). Got it installed and inspected yesterday.

 

[hh76]

Looks like you might be able to cut the riser lower, but leave the utility feeders the same length. That would allow you to mount new can and have the utilities feeder wires reach terminations in the meter section of new box. That would also move new box to the right a few inches, allowing enough space for a junction box over the spot where the homes feeder wires exit the building. Then you would have to pipe over to the new box and connect. Wouldn't be pretty, but could work.