Question about an outdoor octagon box in brick

[Stobal]

Long time lurker here. I have learned so much by reading the forums here but have never really had an instance that I needed to post a question....until now.

I am really looking for advice and suggestions regarding a 4" octagon fixture box that I have embedded in the exterior brick of my house. The problem is that the original owners had this box put in far to low for practical installation of an exterior light fixture. The previously installed light gets hit by a fence gate, and is at the perfect height to run your head into. I would like to move it higher.

The box supplying this fixture is fed from a piece of pvc conduit on the interior of the cinderblock wall (garage). The conduit stops at a hole drilled all the way through the cinderblock and into the 4" box embedded into the brick facade on the other side. I have supplied a graphic to help visualize.

Option #1----Do I extend the metal octagon box run make it a junction and run conduit on the exterior of the house to the higher position to a non embedded box and install the fixture that way? What would be the waterproofing requirements of doing it this way?
Pros:Cheap, Easy, Quick Cons: Kind of Ugly

Option #2-----Do I remove or patch over the existing embedded box and install a new embedded box higher up where I want it? If yes, how or with what does one patch the brick facade and hole in cinderblock. Also what would be the best or at least correct way to run the wire through the cinderblock into the embedded box. What do I use to create the hole? Do I need conduit all the way to the box? I assume I would just cold chisel the box shaped hole in the new location and use mortar to hold the box in place to embed a new box?

Pros: Would probably look better than having conduit on an exterior wall
Cons: Sounds more complicated and will definitely take more time.


I hope this makes sense let me know if you need additional information.

Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would do option 2. Yes its more work but it Looks cleaner..

U would have to use a hammer drill for the hole and a grinder for the brick.

As far as anchoring the box, i would use either concrete screws such as tapcons(pic below) or plastic wall anchors.

Yes i would run conduit into the box. This will protect the wire from any caustic substances that are in the cinderblock and mortar...

To patch the old hole, get a brick that matches and shape it to fit with a grinder.

 

[DC73]

I'd remove the old box and patch the hole with matching brick. If you can't find matching brick, perhaps you could carefully remove some brick from the location for the new box. Or maybe just patch the hole with mortar and find something decorative to hang on the wall to hide the patch.

You can buy a diamond hole saw (might not be cheap) to make short work of drilling through the brick for a new round box.

To get through the cinder block for the conduit, you can also find a smaller diamond hole saw but you'll need some type of extension to get through the cinderblock.

DC

 

[MoonRise]

Option 2, all the way. Option 1 will be 'ugly' and not all that much cheaper or easier (if at all).

Conduit inside the garage, to an elbow that goes through a hole drilled through the concrete block and the brick, and the conduit (and wire) go into an appropriate box.

Masonry is always considered 'wet', so I'd go for a plastic 'solid' box set into the exterior brick/masonry.

To make the hole in the exterior brick for the box to be recessed into, a hammer drill with carbide masonry bit(s) along with possibly an angle grinder with masonry disks and a brick/masonry chisel or two should let you make a neat hole without too much fuss. Lot's of masonry dust, but not too much fuss.

Like wyliesdiesels said, patch the 'old' hole in the brick with an appropriate 'matching' brick cut to fit and mortared in place. The hole on the inside of the garage just gets mortared to patch and fill it.

Can't find a 'matching' brick for the outside? Get creative and mortar in something 'creative'. Maybe a design tile, or a house number, or something.

 

[PugetDude]

I would replace the entire brick(s) instead of just stuffing in a patch- especially if it spans two bricks. It will be a lot less noticeable.
If you use thin brick (you can cut the face off a full brick or buy brick veneer) for the patches you won't have to remove the entire brick, just the first inch or so- quick work with a diamond wheel in an angle grinder and a sharp masonry chisel.. (I have a $9.99 HF grinder with a $5.99 diamond wheel that I use just for masonry. 10 years+ and it's still grindin' away.)

Pictures. We need pictures.

 

[Stobal]

Thank you for all of the quick replies. Option #2 it is then. I have some matching brick so that should not be an issue, but I do have some follow-up questions.

What box should I use. I was surprised when I saw a standard 4" octagon metal box because of the outdoor location. I would have figured brick on an exterior wall would call for some sort of weatherproof box. I saw the recommendation for a "solid" plastic box as the replacement. Any particular type of plastic box that would better than another? A link would be awesome. Also, should I run conduit through the cinderblock to the box or just do an elbow and just run wire?

 

[thewatusi]

I went through something similar when I added a few exterior outlets on my front brick wall.

They make metal boxes specifically for this application. You have to go to an actual electrical supply house to get one. Depot and Lowes don't carry them.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes run the conduit ALL the way to the box!!

 

[ford33]

You don't state where you are located. It is likely the metal conduit acts as a ground connection for all the electrical devices in the home. If this is true, use a metal box and run metal conduit to the box. Do it right and you don't have to worry about future safety issues. Good luck.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You don't state where you are located. It is likely the metal conduit acts as a ground connection for all the electrical devices in the home. If this is true, use a metal box and run metal conduit to the box. Do it right and you don't have to worry about future safety issues. Good luck.

Ummm, he said that PVC is used on the inside so this doesnt apply here!

 

[75gmck25]

If the existing box is code compliant (sounds like it might be) I would use option 2 for the new lighting box, and if it makes sense I would convert the existing one to a receptacle (maybe on a different circuit). I never seem to have enough receptacles on the outside of the house.

You can also rent a core drill that will make very clean holes in brick. The rental is expensive (I paid about $150 to rent it long enough to make a 4.25" hole (dryer vent) and a 2.25" hole (sump pump) in my brick, but it was a lot faster than making multiple holes with a hammer drill and chipping out the rest. The holes are also very clean and exact.

Bruce

 

[ambenz]

I had the opposite issue because the dome of a fixture was hitting my soffit.
Soooo, what I did was make a decorative elongated wood mounting cover with a slot in the back to run the wires from the junction box to the light.
The decorative cover allowed me to mount the light anywhere I wanted!