question about generator/inverters

[justatrucker]

Morning boys and girls. I'm sure it's been talked about, but i'm not sure if my exact question has been talked about, so don't be too upset if i'm re asking something I have a interlock 50 amp 240v plug for the house ready to go if, When we lose power again. I don't need to run the whole house. Not that much into technology, but I would like to run the deep freeze the Refrigerator a couple outlets ( for charging stuff) the blower for the furnace and exhaust/lighting systems for water heater. (Everything in the house is gas Fired water heater, oven/stove and the furnace) Problem is that this house is on a well which i've been told is 240 volts and kinda need water ha ha. problem is we go camping hunting Fishing and would like a smaller generator for working around the farm. So I really don't want to buy some three hundred pound behemoth. I know that genmax sells 2 small 240v ones that pair together to get bump up the amps/watts but that set up is still just a little low... any other inverters out there that can be a little stronger looking for 42 48 amps orrrrr could I pair a smalll inverter to a larger one and will that bump up the amps? any information would be helpful thanks!!

 

[dcg9381]

There are 3 things that are different:

• Generators (their generated power frequency is dependent upon engine rpm)
• Inverter Generators (these make cleaner power)
• Inverters (usually used with solar or batteries)

To get a full 50A, you need: 240V * 50A = 12,000 watt generator (continuous rating). These are pretty big, say 300 lbs.

There are generators that you can "parallel" - but be careful because most of them will only do 120V. A few of the newer ones will do 240V in parallel, but it's something to ask about.

It'd be best if you could log your load on these critical systems and get an educated guess on what you actually need. I suspect it's in the 5000-7000 watt range. How big is your well pump? But these are still pretty big... And loud. Not what I'd use for camping.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How big is the well pump? HP rating?

Not many inverter generators are 240V rated. As said above most are 120 V.

Honda does make a 120/240v inverter generator but it’s pretty heavy. it’s the EU7000is 5500w at 240v 7000w peak

5500w would probably be plenty for you because most of your appliances are 120V. However the surge in-rush current of the well pump may be too much for the generator

 

[micromind]

The well pump will need about 6X the running current when it starts. It'll start on lower voltage but needs full voltage to run.

Generally speaking, a 6,000 watt model will start a 2HP well pump provided very little else is running when it starts. Certainly no other motors, like the fridge.

This is a straight generator, not inverter. My experience with inverter generators (and battery inverters too) is that they have trouble starting motors. I don't have enough experience with them to recommend a size for a well pump.

 

[ericm]

A soft start device would reduce the inrush current.

 

[justatrucker]

Unfortunately, I'm not too sure on how big the well is. I know it's a double fifteen am breaker, so i'm guessing it's thirty amps??

 

[P0234]

For what you are asking to run, you don't need a 40 or 50 amp generator. Champion has some decent 9k inverters that are in the 150lb range and inverters. Your well pump is 15amp, it has two breakers because it is 240v.

 

[dcg9381]

Unfortunately, I'm not too sure on how big the well is. I know it's a double fifteen am breaker, so i'm guessing it's thirty amps??

It's 15A at 240V = 3600 watts. It'll run at or under 12A. As noted, there may be a "start up" surge over that, might pull it off on a 5k but a 7 or 9k would be better.

A couple of us put monitors in our main to determine our total power draw. You can get some advanced ones that determine circuit draw via induction. I use an Emporia device.. $100 give or take.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Unfortunately, I'm not too sure on how big the well is. I know it's a double fifteen am breaker, so i'm guessing it's thirty amps??

no a double pole breaker means its a 15a 240v circuit. you dont add up the poles...

 

[justatrucker]

For what you are asking to run, you don't need a 40 or 50 amp generator. Champion has some decent 9k inverters that are in the 150lb range and inverters. Your well pump is 15amp, it has two breakers because it is 240v.

but aren't those 9000 watt champions 120V? when I zoom in on the front of the gen they say 120v

 

[mike93lx]

but aren't those 9000 watt champions 120V? when I zoom in on the front of the gen they say 120v

Look at the spec list, They're 240v. No one is making a 9kw 120v-only generator... That's 75a and there isn't a commonly available connector for that level

 

[justatrucker]

Look at the spec list, They're 240v. No one is making a 9kw 120v-only generator... That's 75a and there isn't a commonly available connector for that level

I guess I get what you're saying....., but I don't. here is 4 Parallel kits from 4 major distributors and they all say do not use with a 240 volt plug.. that's what makes me a little nervous ha ha

 

[mike93lx]

I guess I get what you're saying....., but I don't. here is 4 Parallel kits from 4 major distributors and they all say do not use with a 240 volt plug.. that's what makes me a little nervous ha ha

No idea.

The champion 9k does 240v

 

[justatrucker]

No idea.

The champion 9k does 240v

thanks I see that one I was also looking at a westinghouse house 11/9k as well. I REALLY wish I could pair w smaller ones but the smaller ones would be just a smidge to weak.

 

[dcg9381]

I guess I get what you're saying....., but I don't. here is 4 Parallel kits from 4 major distributors and they all say do not use with a 240 volt plug.. that's what makes me a little nervous ha ha

This one, in particular is just warning you that it won't do 240V measured L1 to L2. You'll measure zero. The generators are kept in phase sync.

These are largely for "RV use" where all the appliances and electronics in the RV are 120V. Sure, you use a 14-50R, but everything runs off the neutral, is 120V, and there is nothing in the RV that is 240V. You basically get two legs of 120V.. Useful for running multiple RV ACs.

How do I know? I bought a parallel kit for my Champions expecting it to do 240V and run the welder... Expensive mistake!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I guess I get what you're saying....., but I don't. here is 4 Parallel kits from 4 major distributors and they all say do not use with a 240 volt plug.. that's what makes me a little nervous ha ha

because the generators those are used for cannot parallel output 240v power.

 

[Highbeam]

I had your problem. Get two generators, one little quiet inverter for camping and one big guy for whole use powering the well. When you don't need the well, you can use the little one through your interlock for 120 volt appliances to save fuel and noise.

Combining two little inverters is possible but a total PITA and you're better off with a big dog for big dog duties.

 

[justatrucker]

I had your problem. Get two generators, one little quiet inverter for camping and one big guy for whole use powering the well. When you don't need the well, you can use the little one through your interlock for 120 volt appliances to save fuel and noise.

Combining two little inverters is possible but a total PITA and you're better off with a big dog for big dog duties.

what's your big and small one options?

 

[justatrucker]

I had your problem. Get two generators, one little quiet inverter for camping and one big guy for whole use powering the well. When you don't need the well, you can use the little one through your interlock for 120 volt appliances to save fuel and noise.

Combining two little inverters is possible but a total PITA and you're better off with a big dog for big dog duties.

also might be A dumb question, but I had to ask just making sure that I can't get 1 big 240 V generator and pair a smaller inverter to it. Just to give it a little more of that little generators power if that makes sense? like If the big one does 9000 watts could I sync/parellel the smaller one to it... to get a few more watts added to the 9000 one? reason I ask If I have the smaller one laying around, I feel like I might as well be using it during a whole house outage...

 

[mike93lx]

also might be A dumb question, but I had to ask just making sure that I can't get 1 big 240 V generator and pair a smaller inverter to it. Just to give it a little more of that little generators power if that makes sense? like If the big one does 9000 watts could I sync/parellel the smaller one to it... to get a few more watts added to the 9000 one? reason I ask If I have the smaller one laying around, I feel like I might as well be using it during a whole house outage...

No

9kw doesn't cover what you need in an outage? That's a decent amount of power

 

[Dig Doug]

How big is the well pump? HP rating?

Not many inverter generators are 240V rated. As said above most are 120 V.

Honda does make a 120/240v inverter generator but it’s pretty heavy. it’s the EU7000is 5500w at 240v 7000w peak

5500w would probably be plenty for you because most of your appliances are 120V. However the surge in-rush current of the well pump may be too much for the generator

what are your thoughts on the HF - Predator 9500
I was thinking … 25% off coupon and I’m good to go

looking to power my Lake Havasu house in case of power outage
bedroom AC and a 2 refrigerators and a small freezer maybe a TV…

bedroom AC is 220, 18 amp. Mini split
Everything else is typical residential appliances

Im not an Electrican

How Does the 240 work with 220 applications?

after reading this thread, I’m questioning my direction.

 

[mike93lx]

There is no such thing as 220 in the US. It's all 240.

18a at 240v? That's a huge mini split. My 3 ton heat pumps don't pull anywhere near that

 

[AA/FC]

also might be A dumb question, but I had to ask just making sure that I can't get 1 big 240 V generator and pair a smaller inverter to it. Just to give it a little more of that little generators power if that makes sense? like If the big one does 9000 watts could I sync/parellel the smaller one to it... to get a few more watts added to the 9000 one? reason I ask If I have the smaller one laying around, I feel like I might as well be using it during a whole house outage...

No. From what I understand, it does not work that way...

For example, if you had a 3000 watt inverter generator, and another 2000 watt inverter generator, and you paralleled them together, you would NOT get a total of 5000 watts. You can only "double" the smaller of the two generators.... So, you would get a total of 4000 watts from this combination. Now, if you scale that example up.... Lets say you have a 9000 watt generator, and a 3000 watt generator.... you would only get 6000 watts from that combination, which is actually going backwards in wattage.

 

[AA/FC]

what are your thoughts on the HF - Predator 9500
I was thinking … 25% off coupon and I’m good to go

looking to power my Lake Havasu house in case of power outage
bedroom AC and a 2 refrigerators and a small freezer maybe a TV…

bedroom AC is 220, 18 amp. Mini split
Everything else is typical residential appliances

Im not an Electrican

How Does the 240 work with 220 applications?

after reading this thread, I’m questioning my direction.

Unless you have one of those "special" 25% off coupons that gets emailed to certain customers who haven't shopped at HF for a while, I don't think they accept the "standard" 25% off coupons on generators. In fact, the standard 25% off coupon is a pretty rare thing these days. They usually specify not for use on:____ and then list a bunch of tools and brand names that are not included. They usually specify "generators" or anything with the "Predator" name. However, I did see the 9500 Predator will be on sale for $1899 next month during the June sale.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I know that genmax sells 2 small 240v ones that pair together to get bump up the amps/watts but that set up is still just a little low.

Some m8s information here.

Those Genmax Gm4600i 120VAC generator can be combined with their Series/Parallel Adapter Box (GM6000SPK). Two generators would either double the voltage or double the current, but not both at the same time. To my knowledge, they are still the only ones offering this.

Unless you have a HUGE well pump or other 240GAC loads I can not imagine not having enough power to run well pump.

Of course if another LARGE load starts at the same time, all bets are off

 

[theoldwizard1]

Generators (their generated power frequency is dependent upon engine rpm)

Not true with inverter generators !

The voltage AND the frequency are "synthetized" by electronics. RPM is completely out of the equation !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

also might be A dumb question, but I had to ask just making sure that I can't get 1 big 240 V generator and pair a smaller inverter to it. Just to give it a little more of that little generators power if that makes sense? like If the big one does 9000 watts could I sync/parallel the smaller one to it... to get a few more watts added to the 9000 one? reason I ask If I have the smaller one laying around, I feel like I might as well be using it during a whole house outage...

no you wont be able to do that. the generators would have to be purposely out of phase with each other to produce 240v and they would need to be the same size otherwise there would be an imbalance.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

bedroom AC is 220, 18 amp. Mini split
Everything else is typical residential appliances

Im not an Electrican

How Does the 240 work with 220 applications?

the bedroom AC is 240v not 220v. no 220v in the US anymore

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not true with inverter generators !

The voltage AND the frequency are "synthetized" by electronics. RPM is completely out of the equation !

you need to go back and reread his comment. he was saying that about non-inverter generators as he listed inverter generators below that

 

[mike93lx]

you need to go back and reread his comment. he was saying that about non-inverter generators as he listed inverter generators below that

 

[Dig Doug]

Unless you have one of those "special" 25% off coupons that gets emailed to certain customers who haven't shopped at HF for a while, I don't think they accept the "standard" 25% off coupons on generators. In fact, the standard 25% off coupon is a pretty rare thing these days. They usually specify not for use on:____ and then list a bunch of tools and brand names that are not included. They usually specify "generators" or anything with the "Predator" name. However, I did see the 9500 Predator will be on sale for $1899 next month during the June sale.

They have sent me a couple of the 25% off anything coupons over the past 3-4 years.

Last one I bought a series 3 -56 inch tool box ….

 

[P0234]

I'm not sure why anyone would want a predator generator when a champion or other similar brand with actual support is the same price or sometimes less.

 

[dcg9381]

Not true with inverter generators !

The voltage AND the frequency are "synthetized" by electronics. RPM is completely out of the equation !

Agree, sorry I didn't make that clear by their own bullet point.