Question about HOAs???

[Rusty105]

The area my wife and I are looking to move to is, for the vast majority, small to medium size communities with HOAs. While I am pushing towards something "out of community" the pickings are slim. But that is not to say they are not there, we would probably have to build our home there, which I am not opposed to doing. But that aside I have seen this one line in almost all of the "Deeds and Restrictions" I have read for the areas and have a question.

"5. Dwellings shall be single family type, only one to be erected on any lot. No excavation shall be made on any plot except for the purpose of building thereon and not until the time when building operations are commenced. NO earth or sand shall be removed from the said premises except as a part of the said excavation. One building operations are commenced, the same shall be completed within six (6) months from the date of the commencement of the building operations."

The first sentence is where my question lies. What do they consider a 'dwelling'? I would consider it a building in which you can sleep. BUT could the HOA consider a 2-3 car garage a 'Dwelling'? If that is the case then a detached garage is out and would most definitely be a deal breaker. I would think a detached garage is an accessory building. I have seen a few that state that detached garages are permitted, but only 2 car max. and they were in Gated communities, which I dislike anyway.

Also Does anyone here live in NE Pennsylvania? I have a few questions about the soil type and basements in that area and would like to chat with someone who lives there.

Thanks

 

[Junkman]

When it comes to deed restrictions, if they are not clearly defined, it is a **** shot as to what they really mean. Interpretation can be very costly if you are thought to be in violation. I wouldn't ever consider buying any land or home that has a deed restriction that I know might cause me a conflict in the future. Local building codes are enough problem in themselves, and to add deed restrictions on top of those already in place by the local community, is only asking for problems. Read some of the posts that people have made about building their garages, and the hassles that the towns have given them. If you can afford a larger parcel outside of the well established towns, you will be way ahead knowing that you can build what you want, and still have privacy on your own property. I built my home on 15 acres, and the area was desolate at the time. Slowly over the past 25 years, more homes have been built near and around mine. Sure am glad that none of them are close enough to cause me any problems with neighbors that might not like my old car hobby, and complain to the town. If it were not for Google satellite imaging, no one would know what is located on my property.

 

[Kevin54]

I would consider it a building in which you can sleep. BUT could the HOA consider a 2-3 car garage a 'Dwelling'? If that is the case then a detached garage is out and would most definitely be a deal breaker.

Check before you buy. Most that live in HOA's make it miserable for anyone that wants to do anything. And chances are that a second garage would be restricted to a single car garage. Also you will have neighbors that will watch EVERY move you make just hoping to find you do something wrong so they can bust your chops to the Housing Association.

 

[goodfellow]

Check before you buy. Most that live in HOA's make it miserable for anyone that wants to do anything. And chances are that a second garage would be restricted to a single car garage. Also you will have neighbors that will watch EVERY move you make just hoping to find you do something wrong so they can bust your chops to the Housing Association.

Exactly!!!! That is why I got fed up with my previous location and looked for a place without any HOA. It's almost impossible to find a subdivision without a HOA these days, but they are out there. Keep looking!!! You'll find something, but you may have to look into older neighborhoods.

 

[Rusty105]

Junkman,
They are more like small communities in a rural lake area. You still have to go to 'Town' for anything big. I have read the stories, and that is what prompted me to look at the deed restrictions. The only reason I am even entertaining them is that we plan on having kids, and I would like them to be able to play with neighbor kids, but understand that it may not be possible.

Kevin54,
No doubt, I live in a condo now, and it is like your buisness is everybody's buisness Before we buy you can be sure I will speak with the HOA, and get certian things in writing if need be. BUT the more I research, the more I don't want to be a part of these little lake communities, even if they have some nice benifits, they do have some big drawbacks. Like "Spring thaw" restrictions. For a period of up to 8 weeks during the spring thaw, NO truck with a GVWR over 10 tons will be allowed on the roads, No exceptions, except Fire/police. I have seen it as low as 10,000lbs, which would knock out some full size pickups. Crazy??


goodfelllow,
That is why we ars also looking into some undeveloped land as well. In that neck of the woods I can find 20ac. for less the 200k. Where I live now I can't get .5ac for that money. Only problem is if I spend that much on the land, I won't have much for the house.

Well... I guess more research is in order!!

on edit:
junkman,
Google Earth is my best friend for finding potential neighbors! Along with that, the county is fully GIS mapped, all I need is the tax ID number for the parcel, and I can then pull up title info, lot lines, then overlay topo, and aerial photos. While not as up to date as Google, I can easily then look at it in Google Earth. I can almost shop for land from my bedroom. Although I am still looking for a way to find out what type of soil is there. I would like a full basement, but finding rock 2ft below grade wouild be bad!!

 

[sneezer41]

Keep looking.

Look for either older neighborhoods built before these gawdawful HOA's were popular, or just an actual town.

 

[Junkman]

If you are planning on building, and the soil is agreeable to digging, then consider a 10' foundation wall. Once you have all the utilities run across the basement ceiling, you still can install a 8' drop ceiling and have usable living space. The foundation cost will go up by 25%, but the value of the space will increase the overall desirability of the homes value to you for years to come. I did this when I built my home, and I also made sure that the septic system would accommodate a full bathroom in the cellar. It takes some planning and a contractor that is willing to work with you to make it happen, but you will never regret the extra effort. I put the bathroom drain plumbing under the concrete and I can have a fully functional bathroom in the cellar as a result. No need for special pumps to move the sewage since the top of my septic system is below the cellar floor. The lay of the land in my case was perfect for this. You might not be so lucky. Since building my home, I have since explored the property and have found that there were even better building sites on the land, however, at the time, they were too well hidden by the old growth trees on the property. If I had only known.....

 

[kvom]

The smart way to deal with an HOA is to get a plan drawn up first and present it to the association's board. If you get signed approval as to the covenants then your neighbors have no recourse other than suing you. I would also show the plans to prospective neighbors. Reasonable people will appreciate the courtesy and not give you grief afterwards.

A friend of mine built a nice 2-bay garage behind his house. Given its size, he was obliged to "attach" it to the back of the house via a covered wooden walkway. It turned out quite nice at not too high a cost.

 

[russlaferrera]

I have to say all HOA are not bad/evil. When I lived in Marlboro NJ. Our HOA asked about putting the name of our development/sub division at the 2 entrance ways. There was input to the design, then it was built , then a collection on maintenance.

In the 8 years I lived there thats all that happened. No problems. Should there be a problem. Go to the township. They get paid to handle problems. Got to love them!

 

[thefairlaneman]

alot of them are there just to help the developer sell houses. After that who knows whar can happin.

 

[Rusty105]

Well the HOAs we were looking in were very active, organizing community events and such. Where we are looking was mostly vacation communities as far as I can tell. Then recently (last 5-10 yrs) people have been moving in year round. I thought they would be a little more current, but many still have a common trash drop off area, and mailboxes only at the entrance to the community. Some are gated I will be staying away from those) I only looked there to get a feel of what was there, and by time I was aware of the restrictions, we had already made the appointments and wanted to see the house anyway, just to look. I'll still look in the 'right' HOA. But some are out.

 

[Junkman]

The Home Owners Association where I live is absolutely impossible. The director is known to nag 24/7 if she doesn't get her way. Around here, she is known as "Dragon Lady. Even the dogs run and hide from her sometimes........

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In many states (I'm in GA) HOA's are regulated by the state. In GA the law specifies required annual meetings of the corporation (it should be a non-profit corp) and that a budget must be drawn up and presented and approved by the membership. Many other requirements are specified.

HOA's can work, and they can be terrible nightmares. I live in a fly-in community. the HOA owns the common property including the streets, swimming pool, runway and taxiway. Ours works very well. In some communities, everyone is always suing someone.

As far as the garage situation, many counties now days do not permit secondary detached dwellings on a single parcel of land, you could not have a house and a apartment/garage. Also, many places won't let you build a detached accessory structure such as a garage until the residence is finished or at least started together. People don't want you to build a garage, move in claiming you are going to build a house, run out of money, never build the house and then you are stuck living in the garage. Most counties don't want this either, and I can understand this. Look at not only covenants, but county restrictions too.

Investigate closely, and consider some acreage in the country.

Charles

 

[Junkman]

I too live in a "fly in community", however, the only thing that ever lands here or takes off from here is the witch on her broom.....

 

[bluesman2a]

I too live in a "fly in community", however, the only thing that ever lands here or takes off from here is the witch on her broom.....

Now THAT's some funny chit right there, I don't care who ya' are...

 

[toxicz28]

Here are a few questions you could ask the town when looking for land.
What exactly do they consider "attached"? Would a breezeway, or a tunnel (like the guy in UT) make it an attached structure?
Also, if there are detached "garage" restrictions, what if you used wording to your advantage and called it a "barn", or an outbuilding?(NEVER a garage, or a shop because then you'll be working on cars for money)

I live in a town near you (OP) that has a 750' sq. restriction on detatched garages, a buddy put up a 45x60 steel building in his backyard after the restriction went into effect with no variance. I asked him how he got it through, what did he call it? His response, "I just called it a building."

 

[Rusty105]

I guess my next step is lie ToxicZ28 said, check with the towns....
I need to check with their Health dept about the septic systems, and I'll have to check out their zoning rules. Both of which I am fimiliar in working with. I worked at a Civil Engineering firm for a couple years, designing septic systems, doing small subdivisions. it is just finding the person to contact to get the info from.

 

[kvom]

I have our architecture committee coming by tomorrow to lookm at my house/lot and to let me know what could be approved as far as a garage. I have been told verbally that it needs to be attached via a covered breezeway, and I have no problem with that (I would do that anyway). One issue may be county-mandated setback from the property line, which would limit the width I could build.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have our architecture committee coming by tomorrow to lookm at my house/lot and to let me know what could be approved as far as a garage. I have been told verbally that it needs to be attached via a covered breezeway, and I have no problem with that (I would do that anyway). One issue may be county-mandated setback from the property line, which would limit the width I could build.

Ask to see their rules in writing. You don't want someone telling you that you need to do it a certain way, only to find out later it was their own made up rule. Check with the county and see what is considered detached, vs attached. In some places the covered breezeway is not considered attached, it has to be enclosed and have A/C-heat to consider it attached. You need to nail down the rules beforehand.

Charles

 

[cletus66]

Do EVERYTHING in your power to avoid a HOA. It's like sharing a driveway with your neighbors, nothing good can come from it. I would quit my job and leave the state before I would live like that. It may seem OK for a while, but there WILL be grief eventually. I live near the area where the guy got sued by his HOA because his American flag was an unauthorized structure. It made national news a few years ago. What a pack of commie bastards.

I busted my @$$ and bought 20 acres and put a trailer right in the middle of it with woods all around. Then I built my garage. I'll build a house next, but you can bet nobody will be able to see me without tresspassing.

 

[jay50]

The Home Owners Association where I live is absolutely impossible. The director is known to nag 24/7 if she doesn't get her way. Around here, she is known as "Dragon Lady. Even the dogs run and hide from her sometimes........

Dragon lady? Do the dogs run towards her when she is in heat?

 

[Rusty105]

Thats guys

So far all we have done is see a few homes in communities, and I was NOT impressed. Some nice looking homes, but the properties were junk. I really dislike the "Turkey Mound" style of septic systems, but in that area it is shallow to rock. We have done some more research, and have found some nicer looking properties on line, in the same general area, but I think, from what I can see, it looks less rocky. Going to have to take a drive out that way again soon to do some 'in person' looking. Have even found a few "Out of Community" parcels of land that might be promising.

 

[PhantomEB]

I currently live in a condo and my garage is at my folks place 5 min away. Due to the BS we get from just condo living, I have already made it a condition with the wife to be, that when we move, NO FREAKIN WAY is it gonna be in any style of HOA! I never would be allowed to enjoy my hobbies of wheelin, wrenching, welding and beers galore! Not to mention I would be getting letters like crazy due to my offroad rig, drag car, and diesel truck.

 

[itb76]

They're not ALL bad. A lot depends on how good a neighbors you end up with. Our HOA maintains 300' of lake frontage with a pier, that's the main reason we have it. I'm limited to one outbuilding but my funds are also limited so it's not an issue now. I've swapped engines in the garage and painted cars in the driveway (twice in six years), with no complaints.