Question about Honeycombing

[edowens71]

Hello all,
New user here requesting some feedback/opinions about a concern I have with a new garage slab pour. I'm the homeowner (in Salt Lake City), and I have a general contractor managing the build of my new 20'x22' detached garage. The concrete subcontractors poured the slab a few days ago (this past Thursday), and I'm noticing a problem. I did a bit of Googling, and I learned that the issue is called "honeycombing." Please see the attached photos...these are not isolated areas - I would say that this problem covers at least 50% (probably more like 2/3) of the perimeter of the slab, which also makes me concerned about internal problems that aren't visible. My general contractor is already saying "it's not really a problem, no slab is perfect", etc. Based on my amateur Googling of this situation, my mentality is the exact opposite - I'm thinking on insisting on a complete tear-out and re-pour. Am I being ridiculous? Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc.? I appreciate it.

 

[kwb]

They didn't tap on the forms or vibrate the edges to prevent the rock pockets.

Not worthy of a redo.

Depending on how siding will hang and backfilling you may want to ask them to patch it with some grout where the edges will be exposed.

Be reasonable in the request and you likely get some sort of correction, otherwise they will stop returning your calls.

 

[BillK]

Mine has been like that for close to 40 years. Does not seem to be a problem yet

 

[edowens71]

Thanks for the responses, kwb and BillK - I appreciate it!

I hear you...but at the same time, I think I've gotten to a point where I'm sick of just "living with" mistakes like this, as a matter of principle.

@kwb , that's what I suspected based on my amateur Googling...that they neither vibrated nor tapped on the forms. In fact, I know they didn't, because I was home watching the pour...I clearly remember that there was no one tapping the forms...of course, at that point, I didn't know enough to say "hey, why aren't you tapping the forms?!"

So, philosophically, "accepting" this as-is just encourages further shoddy workmanship. Of course, understanding the reality of the situation, I don't expect "them" (either the concrete sub or my general contractor) to offer to pay for a tear-out and re-pour, but I just may be neurotic enough to do it anyway, and pay for it myself if necessary...and of course use a different concrete sub next time - one that knows how to vibrate

 

[The Cobbler]

nothing that a bit of parging won't fix. nothing structurally that you need to worry about, in my opinion

 

[LXCam]

You can put down the pitchforks and sickles, it’ll be fine.

 

[edowens71]

Thanks, @The Cobbler and @LXCam ... but I guess I'm feeling like @The Cobbler's footer line...

"Hard to say if it's worth it but sometimes we fix things because we want to, not because it's the most rational thing."

Exactly!

 

[edowens71]

Now that I'm part of this forum, and building a new garage, I'll keep you posted on how things develop, in case anyone's interested!

Hopefully, eventually I'll be able to post in the threads like "How I'm using my Garage"

 

[C-S-H]

At the minimum they should fix the honeycomb with a repair material. You need to chip-in at a few places to see the extent of the honeycombing along visible lift lines. If there are internal voids in your perimeter beams, they should be repaired. Why is this new casting not wet and covered? Did they use a curing compound?

 

[edowens71]

Why is this new casting not wet and covered? Did they use a curing compound?

Good question. They poured on Thursday as I was leaving town for a work trip...got back earlier today, and the result is what you see. Based on discussion with my wife, nothing has happened in the interim other than stripping the forms. In other words, they poured on Thursday, didn't vibrate the slab...simply power floated the top...came back sometime in the past couple days and stripped the forms, and that's it - no other attention was provided, apparently.

I don't know about the curing compound...?

Funny you ask this - my wife was telling a co-worker yesterday about us getting a new garage slab, and the co-worker asked her something like...so, they're coming back and wetting the slab, right?

 

[pcmeiners]

"I hear you...but at the same time, I think I've gotten to a point where I'm sick of just "living with" mistakes like this"

How is this a mistake, it is corner cutting, they should have used a ********; no less you should have stipulated it in the contract . As to repair patching the observed areas will do nothing, overall I would not worry about it.

 

[Rusted Nut]

Looks like fairly typical residential construction to me. No structural issues, just some rock pockets. You could ask the contractor to patch it.

 

[Doubled33]

There are many different ways to cure concrete. The one and done is chemical cure. It has gotten cheap over the years and is sprayed on with a Hudson sprayer or similar. One of your pictures looks like they may have sprayed cure on it.

Rock pockets are everywhere in commercial and residential construction.

Even the best crews get rock pockets but usually limited to walls as those are very difficult and placed without being able to see the concrete.

Tapping the forms is a “slang” way to vibrate. A proper ******** is the way to go, but even then there are ways to do this properly.

Get them to patch the areas that will be exposed and as mentioned some areas may need to be chipped out to get rid of loose material and get a solid patch.

Items such as this should be addressed in the contract at the time of signing up, but you don’t know what you don’t know.

 

[KenC]

Look on the bright side. At least you know that it wasn't poured too wet. A lot of jobs get over-watered to make it easier to move around

 

[C-S-H]

At least you know that it wasn't poured too wet.

We don't even know that. Natural slump for good concrete is 2" to 3" tops. We get 5" to 11"+ slump by using water reducing admixtures. We haven't used water to get slump since the 1980's.

 

[ConCretin]

The rock pockets in the pictures are a very common surface defect and certainly don't warrant removal and replacement. Your contractor will laugh at you to your face or behind your back if you make that demand and you'd lose if you tried to enforce that demand in court. Most people, including myself wouldn't even bother to make repairs.

I agree with KenC. The presence of rock pockets or honeycombing suggests that the concrete was placed at a reasonable slump. That's a very good thing for your slab. Btw, it would be nice if they vibrated or at least tapped on the formwork to consolidate the concrete but very few finishers are going to bother.

With regard to curing, it depends on what your contract says. Is curing part of the scope? If it is, I guarantee you it's not a water cure, which requires that the slab to be kept wet continuously for 7 days or so. Few concrete contractors are going to commit to that. If anything, they'd spray on a coat of curing compound and call it good. Honestly, most residential slabs aren't cured at all and I doubt you'd ever know the difference

Your new slab is fine. Now get on with the build and start enjoying that new garage.

 

[mike93lx]

The only one paying to redo that is you.

If you want to tear it out and redo it for that kind of minor issue, you have way more money to burn than most. The contractor is never paying for that.

Parge it and move on

 

[Hohn]

"I hear you...but at the same time, I think I've gotten to a point where I'm sick of just "living with" mistakes like this"

How is this a mistake, it is corner cutting, they should have used a ********; no less you should have stipulated it in the contract . As to repair patching the observed areas will do nothing, overall I would not worry about it..

Reminds of that sign in the barbershop:
"Haircut: $5
GOOD Haircut: $15"

 

[edowens71]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, everyone - I appreciate it. Sounds like it's pretty unanimous that I shouldn't be too worried about structural issues, and if the cosmetics bother me, just parge it and move on. This is really helping ease my mind...I'm starting to back myself down off the ledge now. My contractor is going to have someone else come by and look at it as one more sanity check, then we'll go from there.

 

[mike93lx]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, everyone - I appreciate it. Sounds like it's pretty unanimous that I shouldn't be too worried about structural issues, and if the cosmetics bother me, just parge it and move on. This is really helping ease my mind...I'm starting to back myself down off the ledge now. My contractor is going to have someone else come by and look at it as one more sanity check, then we'll go from there.

Glad to hear. It'll all be good.