Question about my old GE panel

[farphle]

Hello all. I have a need for a 20A circuit in my garage and decided to do a little investigating before getting started. I opened up my panel and was puzzled by the lack of any breaker(s) to kill power to the entire panel at once. In the image below you can see two 50A breakers numbered 10 and 12. These were labeled as "Main" on my schedule, but flipping them only kills power to breakers 13 down. Everything in the top half of the panel stayed live!

I'm not sure I want to do the work myself if I can't kill the entire panel. I'd love to just replace the panel and move it 2 feet and 90 degrees so that it's in the garage and not my closet, BUT I don't think I can swing the cost right now.

What exactly am I dealing with here? Is there a way to kill my panel to add this circuit?

 

[sberry]

We assume this comes from a meter base with no disconnect ahead of it? Looks like there is un used breakers now?

 

[matt151617]

That's called a split bus panel. They haven't been used for many years. The only way to shut off everything is by pulling the meter.

You have several issues going on. First, there's no room left in that panel for expansion. And second, there is a lot of white wires coming out of breakers, and it's unclear why. There's only one 240v circuit, and if those whites are being used to carry current, they need to be recolored black or red.

Your best bet is to call an electrician and have a new 200 amp panel put in where you want it. As far as adding a new circuit, you can either put it on the lower half, pull the meter and put it in the top half, or add a small subpanel.

 

[Norcal]

The top 12 spaces of that split-bus panel are limited to 6 - 2 pole breakers to comply w/ the 6 disconnect rule, no more then six throws of the hand to shut off the power, it was not done in accordance w/ that rule & as was said above the white conductors need to be checked out....

 

[farphle]

Thanks for the info guys! It looks like I'll be calling an electrician to see about replacing the panel and cleaning things up a bit.

Can someone tell me why I don't have any ground wires in some of my older outlet/switch boxes (just a pair of blacks and whites)? House was built in '69 and we bought this Feb and I'm slowly going through and making a list of things I need fixed. I do know that the house is about 70% AL and 30%CU wiring. That makes it fun when replacing outlets and switches as I have to make sure they are rated for the correct wire.

 

[madosta]

This makes me cry a little inside. Good luck!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The light gray breakers in the lower right might be GFCI breakers as one of the white wires looks to be in curly cue form. However, the white wires going to the other breakers is suspect. And I do hope this is the main right after the meter, as there is no ground bar!

 

[coolreed]

Instead of moving that panel you might consider replacing the panel entirely. That panel is outdated and does not conform to new standards. Newer panels allow for a main disconnect.

If not, I would recommend you hire a qualified electrician. That panel looks like you will have to pull the meter to disconnect the power to the panel. This is normally done by the Utility via coordination by the electrician.

Working panels hot has been outlawed recently and to do so you are required get a permit. This is due to the possibility of flashover in a hot panel or at the meter base. You essentially have very high current possibilities on the input side of a panel.

Be safe.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I do know that the house is about 70% AL and 30%CU wiring. That makes it fun when replacing outlets and switches as I have to make sure they are rated for the correct wire.

If you have 12 gauge aluminum wire supplying receptacles and light circuits, you need to embark on a two pronged campaign. First, immediately pull out every receptacle and if it has aluminum wire, install a receptacle marked Co/ALr and use no-ox or similar anti corrosive electrical paste on the connections before you put the wire on the outlet. Then the second phase is to begin a replacement of all of the aluminum wire in the house, one circuit at a time.

Its not a matter of if the connections will corrode and burn, its a matter of when.

This is a house fire waiting to happen.

Charles

 

[farphle]

Thanks guys. The panel will be replaced at a minimum. It is currently located in my closet and the meter is directly behind it on the side of the house. Trust me, I have ZERO intentions of working in a live panel! I'm smart enough to know that's a BAD idea.

The light gray breakers are GFCI. One issue I have is that they also have GFCI outlets on the other end. The plus to that is I can re-purpose one or the other as I don't need both. I do know I will have to get some AFCI breakers for the living spaces.

I would love to rewire the house. What's the easiest way to do that considering the outlets on exterior walls and the runs that are certainly horizontal in the walls? Do I leave that old wiring and just run new copper from the top?

Pardon the newb questions. I subscribe to the policy of "Do it right, or do it twice."

Brandon

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah, a GFI feeding a GFI is a no no! And AL wiring for branch circuits is dangerous so I agree with embarking on replacing all of it!

FYI, current code does not allow breaker panels in closets, so if you do change the panel, it will have to be put in a new location!

 

[ratman2]

I think the grey breakers are arc fault, not GFCI

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Regardless. If they're AFCI u don't feed a GFCI outlet with an AFCI breaker!