Question about repairing a vise..

[AndrewH]

Hey guys,

A buddy of mine has an old American vise that has a Crack running down the slide. He asked me to find out how to fix it. So I guess my question is, what kind of material are old vises made out of? Should I be looking for someone that can TIG weld? I'm thinking the best way would to have it professionally welded. I just want to make sure when I approach a welder that I know exactly what I'm talking about.

It appears that it wouldn't be a problem at all to bevel the crack and fill it with weld, then grind it smooth, put it in the blast cabinet then repaint it. Obviously it'll never be as strong as it was but it will save it from the scrap yard.

Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[G_P]

its likely cast iron.

 

[drivesitfar]

check out this thread and post #4 might give you some good information. probably find a good welder that knows how to braze (sp?) weld. also a couple pictures on your friend's vise would help if some of the experts happen to see your thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116677


by the way sounds like you have found the key to buying vises in your area and have seen a few posted on the vise thread lately. they all looked like quality old US steel vises which IMHO were and still are the best.

 

[AndrewH]

check out this thread and post #4 might give you some good information. probably find a good welder that knows how to braze (sp?) weld. also a couple pictures on your friend's vise would help if some of the experts happen to see your thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116677


by the way sounds like you have found the key to buying vises in your area and have seen a few posted on the vise thread lately. they all looked like quality old US steel vises which IMHO were and still are the best.

Thanks for the response, however the link you posted was about old drill presses and #4 was a picture that's no longer hosted. I'm guessing that wasn't the correct link?

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[drivesitfar]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234755&highlight=prentiss+vise+repair

Let's try that again and not sure why that cool little DP ended up as the thread i copied. anyway this is a big Prentiss #23 vise that had the back slide split and the owner created a channel for a nice weld and smoothed it out so now it works great.

good luck and did you post a picture or your friend's vise or are you still trying to get him to email you one?

 

[Outlawmws]

The process described is a good one. Pay attention to the preheating step! If you don't have lime handy, set a can/bucket of dry sand on a camp stove and "cook" it good and long and bury the welded part in the hot sand to cool slowly.

 

[AndrewH]

The process described is a good one. Pay attention to the preheating step! If you don't have lime handy, set a can/bucket of dry sand on a camp stove and "cook" it good and long and bury the welded part in the hot sand to cool slowly.

Yeah, from what I've read preheating of the metal is very important. I've found a couple welding places in my area, I was honestly hoping that someone from here would speak up and have experience welding this material themselves. Because I'd rather keep $$ in the community.

I'm going to make some calls tomorrow and get some estimates. I'll post pictures here soon of the damage.

 

[Outlawmws]

I've done it, but I'm not local to you...

 

[zkling]

Hum, where did my previous post go? In short it could be done with any of the processes successfully. Going to depend on a.) where the crack is b.) The experience and comfort zone of the person doing the repair.

I've done it though tig stick and brazing, both gas and tig. Best thing I can say and this is from lots of crack repair, both on my own and at work. Make sure you stop drill the crack end. The hard part of that is finding the true end of the crack without FPI. See if you can find someone local that is familiar with welding cast iron. Don't care what process they use.

Where is the crack? It it in a place that will be under stress while the vise is in use? If so how will it be stressed?

 

[drivesitfar]

Z: maybe your missing post was on a similar thread where the member needed some vise repair information or maybe after 7500 posts GJ is starting to pull your awesome posts out and start their own book.

sounds like cast is a tricky thing to weld sort of like i was hearing about the fix on my aluminum trailer. ok so i'm not a welder (yet) but i have several that are neighbors and if i have a test vise would i tell them to stick the vise under a flame, in an oven or how would you best re heat it.

next is brazing better than other methods or does it really depend on the crack or missing part's location?

Outlaw: another nice tip with the hot sand close by for the cool down process

 

[AndrewH]

Hum, where did my previous post go? In short it could be done with any of the processes successfully. Going to depend on a.) where the crack is b.) The experience and comfort zone of the person doing the repair.

I've done it though tig stick and brazing, both gas and tig. Best thing I can say and this is from lots of crack repair, both on my own and at work. Make sure you stop drill the crack end. The hard part of that is finding the true end of the crack without FPI. See if you can find someone local that is familiar with welding cast iron. Don't care what process they use.

Where is the crack? It it in a place that will be under stress while the vise is in use? If so how will it be stressed?

The Crack is where the front jaw meets the slide, looks like someone beat the jaw with a hammer while it was extended out far. It's already been epoxied back, I tightened it down on a piece of steel as hard as I could without using a bar and it held. In fact I hit the Crack with a dead blow to see if it'd break off, it didn't. So basically he just wants to cover up the crack and give it the extra strength of the weld.

 

[zkling]

That is probably the best place, besides the back of the slide that one would hope for in a vise. As while loading (compression) you will have the support of the screw. Do you know if it was ever 2 pieces? The PITA part is going to be getting all the epoxy out. As soon as you heat that it will probably seep from every crevice. Hopefully they used something that will easily flow at a reasonable temperature. If they used something like JB weld, or something super low viscosity, have fun getting it all out.

 

[Outlawmws]

Wait, is this:

1. a machinist's vise, with a solid cat/machined dynamic jaw and slide, or
   
2. A mechanics vise with the formed slide pressed/cast into the dynamic jaw, or
   
3. an exposed screw home owners vise with the cast slide pressed/cast into the dynamic jaw?

If the crack is where the jaw meets the slide, particularly for #1 that could be serious...

 

[AndrewH]

Wait, is this:

1. a machinist's vise, with a solid cat/machined dynamic jaw and slide, or
   
2. A mechanics vise with the formed slide pressed/cast into the dynamic jaw, or
   
3. an exposed screw home owners vise with the cast slide pressed/cast into the dynamic jaw?

If the crack is where the jaw meets the slide, particularly for #1 that could be serious...

It's an old Parker vise, it looks as though the slide might have been welded onto the front jaw. The Crack is right before where a possible original weld was. I actually found a place willing to give it a shot. They will have to remove the epoxy one way or another and then they will bevel it out and weld it back together, bury it in sand / lime and let it cool. The guy I spoke to was very knowledgeable about welding cast iron. He said most likely it'd cost $50 - $75 to repair it. I'm not too worried about the strength as it will always be under pressure from the screw, and it will not be hammered on again, which is what would / will cause the vise to fail again.

 

[Outlawmws]

Actually you CAN break a jaw off a vise with pressure alone, and the further it is open the easier it is. As the jaws tighten on the part, this cause the Dynamic jaw to try to lift the slide, and places a great deal of strain at the top of the slide where it joins the dynamic jaw.

The repair CAN be down reasonably successfully, but don't be thinking it can't break again. It can.

ps: this sounds like its the second weld job, as unless it was in examples 2 or 3 above, it was once one solid piece...

 

[AndrewH]

Actually you CAN break a jaw off a vise with pressure alone, and the further it is open the easier it is. As the jaws tighten on the part, this cause the Dynamic jaw to try to lift the slide, and places a great deal of strain at the top of the slide where it joins the dynamic jaw.

The repair CAN be down reasonably successfully, but don't be thinking it can't break again. It can.

ps: this sounds like its the second weld job, as unless it was in examples 2 or 3 above, it was once one solid piece...

I'm not expecting it to be as strong as it was originally. But a working vise that's nearly 100 years that can do medium duty stuff that doesn't require hammering, it should be just fine. And if it breaks right away, I can at least feel better knowing that I attempted to keep it alive.

I'd be very surprised if it was actually cast as one piece, but I could be wrong. And it's definitely not a light duty / home owner vise. It's nearly 100 lbs.

 

[Outlawmws]

Well at this point it time for the obligatory:




and what is the model No. of the vise?

 

[dr_clyde]

Well, if your guy can't get it, let me know. I'll more than likely be able to help you if you're up for a little road trip.

 

[AndrewH]

As requested, pictures of said damage..

 

[Outlawmws]

I'd dump that slide and jaw into an Ebath to get all the gunge, paint and rust off (it may also remove the epoxy...) first, then see where you are at.

It's hard to tell if the crack has been welded before, but I don't think so from what I see so far.

Also there may be another crack forming on the Dynamic jaw support. look in pic #2. is that a crack, or just paint beginning to peel off?

And No that is Definintly NOT a factory welded piece.

Model No.? Some Parkers had a pair of reinforcing rods cast into the slide/jaw to add strength. I'm thinking that MAY be what is keeping that one together...

 

[zkling]

Give that thing a through cleaning. Wire wheel, chemical stripper, E bath if you want, then maybe a little heat. That is not going to be fun for whom ever has to end up welding it. Welding is like painting, majority of the time spent is prep work. That rough estimate was not bad at all IMHO. Especially if they are going to truly weld it with a high nickle filler as should be done. I had to buy some the other day for an incoming project. It's crazy expensive compared to standard mild steel filler.

Agree with Outlaw, it looks like the shelf is cracked as well?

 

[AndrewH]

I'd dump that slide and jaw into an Ebath to get all the gunge, paint and rust off (it may also remove the epoxy...) first, then see where you are at.

It's hard to tell if the crack has been welded before, but I don't think so from what I see so far.

Also there may be another crack forming on the Dynamic jaw support. look in pic #2. is that a crack, or just paint beginning to peel off?

And No that is Definintly NOT a factory welded piece.

Model No.? Some Parkers had a pair of reinforcing rods cast into the slide/jaw to add strength. I'm thinking that MAY be what is keeping that one together...

That was my first thought, it's just peeling paint thankfully! It's going to get a good soaking, but the shop asked me to leave it as is until after they take a look at it.

 

[exmaxima1]

It's an old Parker vise, it looks as though the slide might have been welded onto the front jaw. The Crack is right before where a possible original weld was.

I looked at that same Parker 88 vise last Friday and walked away----the seller was from Naperville and worked in my home town of Geneva, so I met him at his work. Was also missing the pipe jaws. Seller was asking $75 and I didn't sense he was willing to sell for the scrap value that it was. Small world....