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Question about Square D breaker panels.

gcronau

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I was reading an old thread on this forum about the question of whether to use Square D Homelite or QO series panels, and I'm pretty much sold on the idea of using the QO series for most everything except one small subpanel that will see very little amps through it. No need to spend the extra bucks where it isn't needed.

However, when I was looking through the available panels, I noticed something odd. Most of the panels are advertised as something like 6/12 for instance, meaning 6 slots and up to 12 circuits if tandem breakers are used. (And no, I don't want to get into an argument as to whether tandem breakers are a good idea or not.)

But I've seen some panels advertised as 30/40, with 30 slots and up to 40 circuits. That seems odd, it implies that only 10 of the 30 slots can be used for tandem breakers. So my question is: Are the other 20 slots physically blocked from having tandem breakers installed in them, or is the limit of 40 circuits just a *recommendation* on the manufacturers part? If I wanted to, or someday needed to, install an 11th or 12th tandem in the panel, would I be able to, or would there something in the panel that physically prevented it?

And on the same idea, there are some panels that are sold as something like 32/32, which seems to imply that tandems can't be used at all in these panels. Again, is there a physical barrier preventing the use of tandems in those panels, or is it just an issue that the manufacturer is recommending that they shouldn't be used?

In all the panels I've worked with so far, I've never seen anything that would prevent tandems from being installed in all the slots if I ever wanted to do something so dumb, so the above specification seems odd.
 
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pattenp

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The shape of the stab prevents the installation of a tandem breaker. The 30/40 is like you think, only 10 stabs can take tandems.

2244d1201327455-using-twin-half-breakers-tandem-breaker-rejection-feature.jpg

Bus-Stabs-440x330.jpg
 
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theoldwizard1

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Be careful with QO panels ! As I found out, older (80s ?) QO panels will not accept "modern" QO tandem breakers. The old tandem are available, if you look for them, but the cost more !
 

Norcal

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Be careful with QO panels ! As I found out, older (80s ?) QO panels will not accept "modern" QO tandem breakers. The old tandem are available, if you look for them, but the cost more !


Pre 1968 panels are non CTL & are not designed for newer twin breakers. This applies to all makes of panels.
 

Speedy Petey

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...........I'm pretty much sold on the idea of using the QO series for most everything except one small subpanel that will see very little amps through it. No need to spend the extra bucks where it isn't needed.
This makes no sense. What does the load have to do with which panel you choose???
Also, if it were me I'd keep all the panels the same. Consistency is nice in these cases, and besides, the cost difference is very minimal if you are only talking about a small sub-panel.
 

Charles (in GA)

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This just came up the other day. QO panels dont have blade stabs, thus no notches. The tandem breakers have humps on the bottom of them, and the panel has to have a matching notch for the hump to fit into or the breaker will not push down into place.

Charles
 

soj

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This makes no sense. What does the load have to do with which panel you choose???
Also, if it were me I'd keep all the panels the same. Consistency is nice in these cases, and besides, the cost difference is very minimal if you are only talking about a small sub-panel.

What he said. Why have a mis-mash of breaker types for very little savings? When you start wiring, buy as many breakers as you think you will need. If you have any left over, they will fit either panel for later add ons. Consistency is a good thing.
 

kd3pc

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QO....commercial quality and consistency. IMHO you can not buy a better panel.

Homeline...cheap harry homeowner, likely meets code...

In 25 years of electrical construction, I have never had a bad QO breaker or installation. When I built for Pulte homes in PG County, MD....I would have a 5 gallon bucket of bad Homeline breakers from a cul de sac or two of new construction.

Cheap does not always pay off. I would make the one time payment and get the QO gear and never have to worry about it.
 

Speedy Petey

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In 25 years of electrical construction, I have never had a bad QO breaker or installation. When I built for Pulte homes in PG County, MD....I would have a 5 gallon bucket of bad Homeline breakers from a cul de sac or two of new construction.
Funny, since they've been introduced I don't think I've seen one bad Homeline. I'll admit, I don't use very many, but I've worked with plenty.
And you have a 5-gal bucket full of bad ones from one development???

I may have been misinformed, but I was told the internals of HOM's are nearly the same as QO's.
Now, I am no expert on either. I HATE QO panels, and HOM's are too proprietary for me. I will say, fit and finish is great on both. I certainly would NOT call HOM "cheap harry homeowner" stuff. Not by a long shot.
When I need HOM breakers I usually just use Cutler Hammer CL's.
 
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NUTTSGT

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Bingo!. Compare the price of the 70-100A QO's to the Homelines, more than half off.

Are you talking breaker or the load centers themselves ?

Breakers, you're only going to buy once unless you have a rare breaker going bad.

Load centers, unless you putting one in a garage or a vacation cabin, why would anybody put anything in less than a 200 amp breaker box is beyond me?


If you look for the deals, you can find them.

 

zmaxmotorsports

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Last time I checked homelite was a chainsaw!:lol:
Home line is square d's residential line while qo is geared more for commercial work.
I was told many years ago by a sales rep from square d that the only differance internally between the 2 was the visa trip in the qo breaker.
Ive used the home line panels for years without problems,installed a 100a 24/24 for a friend the other day in his house to replace a qo panel(ironically)
that was out of spaces.
What really sucked about it was the previous owner used the high end commercial panel and absolutely butchered all the wiring going to it.:sad:
 

zmaxmotorsports

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QO....commercial quality and consistency. IMHO you can not buy a better panel.

Homeline...cheap harry homeowner, likely meets code...

In 25 years of electrical construction, I have never had a bad QO breaker or installation. When I built for Pulte homes in PG County, MD....I would have a 5 gallon bucket of bad Homeline breakers from a cul de sac or two of new construction.

Cheap does not always pay off. I would make the one time payment and get the QO gear and never have to worry about it.
Ive used homeline panels for many years in residential work without a proble.
Dont get me started on cutler hammer/t&c/challenger/westinghous/sylvania...... and all those other brands whove come and gone over the years,or that over rated trash from ge.:lol_hitti
 
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gcronau

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If you look for the deals, you can find them.


Is that a recent photo? And is the label on the shelf above really for that panel or for something else?

The reason I'm asking is that the price label in the photo isn't a yellow or red HD sale style tag, and that item is currently $178 on the HD web site. The SKU code on that label also doesn't match the SKU on the webpage either.
 
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gcronau

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The $139.00 is for the QOVP2, SKU # 179546. The pictured panel QO3040M200VP is $173.00 in our HD.

Yes, sorry. I meant $173.00. Typo on my part.

I didn't realize the QOVP2 was the actual part number. SqrD panel part numbers are usually a lot longer. Like "QO3040M200VP" for instance. :)

Ok, I just looked it up, the QOVP2 is a 100amp 32/32 main breaker panel with 5 included QO 20a 1-pole breakers. It was probably sitting above the price label on the shelf out of frame at the top of the photo.

Not as good of a "deal" as the OP thought it was.
 

NUTTSGT

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Is that a recent photo? And is the label on the shelf above really for that panel or for something else?

The reason I'm asking is that the price label in the photo isn't a yellow or red HD sale style tag, and that item is currently $178 on the HD web site. The SKU code on that label also doesn't match the SKU on the webpage either.

Yes it's recent photo. Whether or not it's a screw up I don't know. I do know, like you said it was listed online for $178.

That's where they had them and what the label said. It's not like one of them was misplaced in the wrong area. All of them in that one spot and that's why I took that picture with my phone to show the cashier. They honored it and it still labeled the same the other day when I stopped in.



EDIT; checking my phone, I believe I took that picture Aug 19th.
 
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pattenp

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That's amazing that they sold you the 200A panel for the $139 just because it was in that spot. It's clear that the price label was not for the 200A panel. You lucked out on that.

Yes it's recent photo. Whether or not it's a screw up I don't know. I do know, like you said it was listed online for $178.

That's where they had them and what the label said. It's not like one of them was misplaced in the wrong area. All of them in that one spot and that's why I took that picture with my phone to show the cashier. They honored it and it still labeled the same the other day when I stopped in.



EDIT; checking my phone, I believe I took that picture Aug 19th.
 

NUTTSGT

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That's amazing that they sold you the 200A panel for the $139 just because it was in that spot. It's clear that the price label was not for the 200A panel. You lucked out on that.

You know the thing is any more, unlike many years ago, they don't put price labels on stuff. They depend on the UPC code to scan and the customer has to rely on a price tag mounted on the stocking shelf.

If I hadn't researched online what I wanted and knew what the price was I would have not known any different if I didn't see the tag. Now if I walked in, just bought based on the price marked, it rang up 40 dollars higher at the register, I'd guess like most others, I wouldn't be a happy camper.
 
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