Question about Takagi T-K4 and clogs?

[ADSR]

Hi guys.

I'm just starting to put a parts list together for my system. I'm trying to figure out what heat source to use. I have natural gas, so it comes down to Tank or Tankless for a closed loop system. My system is one zone, 4 loops between 184 - 194 (heating 720sq-ft) and a heat loss of 14,000 BTU. I really want to go tankless, but my plumber keeps telling me all they do is clog up. He keeps pushing me for a hot water tank. I think my plumber is a bit old school.

Here is the unit in question, which is rated for use in radiant in floor heat systems.

http://www.takagi.com/index.php?product_id=103&page_id=2


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

 

[mygarageone]

Hi guys.

I'm just starting to put a parts list together for my system. I'm trying to figure out what heat source to use. I have natural gas, so it comes down to Tank or Tankless for a closed loop system. My system is one zone, 4 loops between 184 - 194 (heating 720sq-ft) and a heat loss of 14,000 BTU. I really want to go tankless, but my plumber keeps telling me all they do is clog up. He keeps pushing me for a hot water tank. I think my plumber is a bit old school.

Here is the unit in question, which is rated for use in radiant in floor heat systems.

http://www.takagi.com/index.php?product_id=103&page_id=2


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

They only clog up when using fresh water all the time. When used for a closed system , you'll be fine. How do I know this ? Because I have 2 Takagi jr. In use.
One for my shop and one for my house.
And when being used for a water htr , the water hardness will be the problem .

 

[anthony666]

mygarageone is a takagi man .. ill leave this for him

the only good thing i will say about using a tank is you have zero chance of short cycling

 

[mygarageone]

mygarageone is a takagi man .. ill leave this for him

the only good thing i will say about using a tank is you have zero chance of short cycling

I have not experienced that , I really like mine , I can hear it fire up under a full burn and as the water temp rises , it slowly modulates down to a steady slow burn , steady state. If it didn't modulate , I can see it short cycling but even if that became a problem a storage tank could be used to eliminate that problem.
But I do not believe that will happen.

 

[anthony666]

how low will it modulate on paper ??? i think i'd use a low loss just for peace of mind .. what do they use for venting ?? the navians i've been using can run off 1/2" gas line and 2" pvc

 

[mygarageone]

On paper it will modulate down to 11,000 btu's . Mine vents with single wall stainless and uses a 3/4" gas connection. But if the main is close enough 1/2" will work.
Takagi has rated there units for hydronic heat , how ever some states will not approve them with out the national board stamp which it does not have.

 

[ADSR]

mygarageone, Do you think the TK4 is too big for my system? Could i get away with smaller?

Thanks guys.

 

[anthony666]

Thanks guys.

you're welcome anytime ld

 

[mygarageone]

mygarageone, Do you think the TK4 is too big for my system? Could i get away with smaller?

Thanks guys.

Well based on your heat loss of 14,000 btu's yes it is but that's of of the things about on demand they are designed for ice cold water at a steady flow.
It's been awhile since I have been to Takagi's web site but it may be worth looking into a smaller btu unit. Not sure if they have one.
In your case you might be ahead of the game with a water heater storage tank unit. I'm just not a big fan of that set up as they are not designed for that type of use.

I just checked there web site and the Jr may be a better fit the spec's say it is 19,000 to 140,000 btu's. This is more in line with your needs.

 

[ADSR]

Awesome! Thank you, bro. TKJr2 is what i'm going to buy then. Now i'll just have to research how to hook it all up! lol

 

[mygarageone]

Awesome! Thank you, bro. TKJr2 is what i'm going to buy then. Now i'll just have to research how to hook it all up! lol

There's plenty of advice available on this thread , some very good and much questionable. But Anthony or myself and a couple others can walk you through you install. My suggestion would be to maybe pay someone who knows what there doing and have a diagram made for you. Anthony maybe your best choice as he lives in your country.

 

[ADSR]

Yes, lots of advice. Some good, some bad. Ive been saving pics of systems on here and doing my homework from there. I have the basics down, just not the fine details like water make up and such.

And yes, im sure Anthony will help out. Ive learned a lot reading his posts. He has helped countless members here and is a true asset to this community.

 

[anthony666]

i think some dust blew in my eye

 

[Modoc]

ld, there is so much info out on this subject I don't know if we can ever get through it all. I'm also in the process of building a new garage /shop with hydronic heat, I stared researching this subject over a year ago. Have you tried the book by Seigenthaler I believe is called modern hydronic heating ? He is recognized as one of the authority's on the design and installation of these systems. Also found a lot of info at (heating help.com) and Radiantec.com

 

[rclassic]

I have the TK jr. Absolutely love it . It cost me $40 to heat 1000sq.ft. last month and its been cold here in PA.

 

[mygarageone]

Anthony , you are becoming a Celebrity ! Please don't let it go to your head :>}

 

[ADSR]

I have the TK jr. Absolutely love it . It cost me $40 to heat 1000sq.ft. last month and its been cold here in PA.

Love the install! Saved pic for reference.

 

[ADSR]

Anthony , you are becoming a Celebrity ! Please don't let it go to your head :>}

LOL, he's earned it!

 

[Modoc]

Anthony and One, I am fixn to build a 32'x40'x12-14' detached garage shop that will match the house. I'm thinking about having the first 3' of the side wals being concret or block to get the height. Should I run pex lines in these walls ?

 

[mygarageone]

Anthony and One, I am fixn to build a 32'x40'x12-14' detached garage shop that will match the house. I'm thinking about having the first 3' of the side wals being concret or block to get the height. Should I run pex lines in these walls ?

No! But insulate that wall at least 2 ft below and to the very top with no break if possible , before you pour the floor.

 

[anthony666]

Anthony , you are becoming a Celebrity ! Please don't let it go to your head :>}

i'll send you my autograph mgo

 

[anthony666]

Anthony and One, I am fixn to build a 32'x40'x12-14' detached garage shop that will match the house. I'm thinking about having the first 3' of the side wals being concret or block to get the height. Should I run pex lines in these walls ?

i did that before for a client, but it was in the walls of a swimming pool .. it was not a fun install clambering around on re bar, afterwards they put up a form and poured concrete, we used insultarps for a thermal break .. worked great .. the manifold was in a sprinkler box buried under some rose bushes

how would you do it with block ???

 

[Modoc]

Ah hah ! I believe you have detected a flaw in my plan ... Would probably be pretty hard to put it in the block and that's being generous. So I'm also thinking putting it up in the wall might cause it to sweat ?