Question about what constitutes a garage conversion?

[surfin-socal]

Hi,
I put a wall across my garage, separating front from back. I still have enough room to park my vehicle, and store things, and use exercise equipment, and also a desk for my work-from-home computer job. It is a nice setup.

Unfortunately, my neighbor is a busy body, and pushed the HOA into requiring the electrical work to be inspected. I complied. Now they want me to apply for a garage conversion permit, which I will not qualify for as I’d have to provide additional parking (in San Diego CA). However I still park in my garage, so my question is: what constitutes a garage conversion, vs. just segregated multi-use space common to garages?

Any ideas how I can push back on these ridiculous busy bodies? Thx

 

[Rusty Wrench]

If you want to plea your case before the association, you'd need to be pretty darn familiar with ruling documents language. If you think you have 'standing' , by a reading of the covenants, you can involve an attorney who'll likely argue your case better than you.

Those are prickly situations. Good Luck

 

[Youngandfree]

What does your local code enforcement say it means?

 

[wssix99]

Any ideas how I can push back on these ridiculous busy bodies?

I don't think they are busy bodies. They may be enlightened about this sort of thing and are probably more concerned about fire safety and their own property. Maybe they even care for your personal well-being?

Garages are for parking cars and have some fire resistant elements (particularly in multi-unit buildings). They also keep flammable gasses out of dwelling units. (Where people and combustible things live.) All cars leak gasoline. Its only a matter of when and how much.

I expect that your municipality will want to see things like gas curbs, firewalls, elevation of appliances, etc. in your construction plans. All the same elements that define your original living space from the garage. Concerns about parking limits would be dealt with during the zoning part of the permit process.

 

[The Cobbler]

sounds like you did a conversion to me, the only reliable answer is your municipality or AHJ

 

[Red 17]

We have a "back room" on our garage. 3/4 bath, closet, a sink and microwave. At the time, it did not qualify as a "dwelling" as it did not have a real "cooking" kitchen. (no stove top). That was 2006 or so.

Things have loosened up now.

But, if you don't have a bathroom and a kitchen, how would anyone live in that space? Vs. sleeping in it once in a while.....?

 

[rancherbill]

...apply for a garage conversion permit....

From what to what? A "garage" is not hard definition of solely storing cars. It probably is written vaguely but does have a statement that excludes habitation. A desk or fridge is not habitation. Plumbing is the key to habitation. You will have to chase the HOA and county for the permitted and excluded use list.

 

[BrandonV]

sounds like you did a conversion to me, the only reliable answer is your municipality or AHJ

This is the answer. Friend of mine built a garage where he had none and the city told him, "you better be parking cars in here!".

Mind you this garage could pass as a second house.

 

[Git]

First step in anything HOA related is read your governing documents. Did they send you a notice that you are in violation of some sort of rule or regulation, and if so - what is the text of the rule?

 

[P0234]

Most HOAs are fearless when it comes to a single person. Add a lawyer to the equation and they get a little more.polite, or double down at times. If I felt I was in the right, I'd get one.

 

[surfin-socal]

From what to what? A "garage" is not hard definition of solely storing cars. It probably is written vaguely but does have a statement that excludes habitation. A desk or fridge is not habitation. Plumbing is the key to habitation. You will have to chase the HOA and county for the permitted and excluded use list.

Best answer yet, thx!

 

[e015475]

My HOA's governing documents state that conforming to the municipalities' codes/law is part of the CC&Rs. A code or building violation is also a violation of the HOA governing documents

It is hard to imagine the Rules and Regulations or CC&Rs have anything to say about garage conversions like yours, but the HOA likely has the right to insist that local law and codes be enforced.

I'd start with the local codes/law and go talk to the planning and zoning folks for your municipality

 

[LXCam]

Remove the door and reference it as a partition wall for additional concealed storage.

 

[MovingAlong]

Suspect every HOA is going to be unique, there is no unifying national code that I'm aware of. Need to read your CC&Rs pretty closely, or have a professional read them for you and offer their opinion.

But an HOA wouldn't have to spell out that work requiring permits be permitted, that's already covered by the local Authority Having Jurisdiction.

If it's done right, shouldn't have any issues with an inspection. Some partial garage conversions can be a little sketchy when it comes to electrical circuit separation, HVAC venting and egress in the event of a fire. But yours was probably done right.

 

[surfin-socal]

Remove the door and reference it as a partition wall for additional concealed storage.

I had thought about this as a solution, wasn’t sure if the door mattered, but I think “partition walls” are 100% legal so worth digging deeper. Thx!

 

[Mike65]

Makes me glad we no longer have to deal with an HOA or nosy neighbors.

 

[larry_g]

A lot is determined by what you call it. To me I would call that a pantry or closet. When I built my shop I was told to build a barn and not a shop because the requirements and taxes are different. So I built a barn. So check what you can and can't do per the HOA, then do what is allowed.

 

[Zeke]

I think the question about what does not constitute a garage conversion is the best approach. I built a 3/4 height wall down the center of a garage in a home I had a few years ago. For one, it protected a sports car from all of the usual activities. At the time I was racing karts and had karts and stands, tools, work benches and all that good stuff. Secondly it gave me more wall space to use. Whatever you need wall space for, it's always good.

3/4 height is an industry standard for partitioning off offices. You don't need to rearrange lighting. You can have doors. They will even let you qualify glass at the top to go higher. There is still the HVAC thing, so you can't close it off completely.

Point is, if that type of wall is not considered any kind of conversion, you could do that, get it through, and add a dropped ceiling in later to contain heat and cooling.

Before challenging and spending money on a lawyer, try to do a work around. What posters above have said about reading the codes and rules is important to devise your plan.

So I don't know what the overall situation is. Do you walk up to the door to the inside of the house? Then a dropped ceiling isn't your answer. Maybe the door to the house is not even in the work space. If it is, that's part of the problem. I won't go into that yet.

​

 

[CraigStu]

Wait a minute. They asked you to get the electrical to code and you did. Now they want you to apply for a conversion permit? I don't think they have the authority to do that. That will depend on the exact wording of the HOA regs though. I would ask them back; 'Which part of the HOA rules, regulations do you think I have violated?' Also, I'd ask for their answer to be put in writing. I don't think I'd start looking into conversions specifics until you have their written complaint. Especially I would not talk in person, or in writing, to zoning or permitting officials. To me that would be admitting that they can make you do that. And admitting that you did a conversion. You can look at zoning/permitting regs on line but stay away from personal contact for now.

 

[Viper98912]

Read your bylaws carefully. Is this an attached condo unit where you have multiple units connected? If so, then I can understand the risk, but if this is a stand alone single family home, your bylaws should not have any provisions for what you do on the interior of the home.

 

[surfin-socal]

I think the question about what does not constitute a garage conversion is the best approach. I built a 3/4 height wall down the center of a garage in a home I had a few years ago. For one, it protected a sports car from all of the usual activities. At the time I was racing karts and had karts and stands, tools, work benches and all that good stuff. Secondly it gave me more wall space to use. Whatever you need wall space for, it's always good.

3/4 height is an industry standard for partitioning off offices. You don't need to rearrange lighting. You can have doors. They will even let you qualify glass at the top to go higher. There is still the HVAC thing, so you can't close it off completely.

Point is, if that type of wall is not considered any kind of conversion, you could do that, get it through, and add a dropped ceiling in later to contain heat and cooling.

Before challenging and spending money on a lawyer, try to do a work around. What posters above have said about reading the codes and rules is important to devise your plan.

So I don't know what the overall situation is. Do you walk up to the door to the inside of the house? Then a dropped ceiling isn't your answer. Maybe the door to the house is not even in the work space. If it is, that's part of the problem. I won't go into that yet.

​

Great idea about 3/4 wall. I think full partition walls are allowed in CA workout a permit, but still doing research

 

[gorilla]

Take this information with a grain of salt, according to my wife who is a city planner here in Sonoma county CA it's not a garage conversion until you encroach into the required parking area. Here it's 10'x20' per car. Rules in your city may be different.

 

[rancherbill]

Wait a minute. They asked you to get the electrical to code and you did.

All electrical is supposed be to code and inspected. Their request was reasonable.

 

[drmarkr]

All electrical is supposed be to code and inspected. Their request was reasonable.

"Reasonable"? That's your opinion....might not be the OP's. Or someone else's.

 

[Ray-CA]

Hi,
I put a wall across my garage, separating front from back. I still have enough room to park my vehicle, and store things, and use exercise equipment, and also a desk for my work-from-home computer job. It is a nice setup.

Unfortunately, my neighbor is a busy body, and pushed the HOA into requiring the electrical work to be inspected. I complied. Now they want me to apply for a garage conversion permit, which I will not qualify for as I’d have to provide additional parking (in San Diego CA). However I still park in my garage, so my question is: what constitutes a garage conversion, vs. just segregated multi-use space common to garages?

Any ideas how I can push back on these ridiculous busy bodies? Thx

Yeah, but you could’ve converted that space into an ADU and not have been required to provide additional parking.

 

[ZRX61]

Go over to the neighbors place & bang his wife, give the miserable fucker something to complain about.

 

[nadogail]

If you have removed a parking space you have converted your garage from it’s original purpose.

All 3 of the HOA’s I own in require garages not be converted from their original purpose of storing vehicles.

Pool tables are not allowed because they are not portable. A portable Ping Pong table is allowable.

Most minor infractions are ignored, until someone gets upset.

 

[CraigStu]

All electrical is supposed be to code and inspected. Their request was reasonable.

Yes their request on the electrical was reasonable. What I feel is unreasonable is the request to get a 'garage conversion' permit. Especially keeping in mind that the OP can still park in his garage. Seems to me they should have asked for that at the same time they asked for the electrical permit. I think it is VERY unreasonable to ask for electrical, he gets the electrical and does his build, and THEN they come and ask for a conversion permit which could possibly require him to undo or modify his completed work. Requirements in stages is BS. The way I see this is that they have moved from reasonable HOA rules to being flat out pricks.

 

[Git]

Yeah, but you could’ve converted that space into an ADU and not have been required to provide additional parking.

They just had some law changes go into effect. Your right. You can convert a garage into a JADU (junior accessory dwelling unit) as long as it has a separate entrance and 'access' to a bathroom - which can be a shared bathroom inside the house. Oh, it also needs a 'kitchen' which can be nothing more than a 'hot plate'. Since it is now California law, HOA's basically have to abide by it. The craziest part - from what I understand, you could then sell your garage conversion as a 'condo'

A new law allows homeowner to sell ADUs like condos, boosting homeownership. Here's how AB 1033 works

A new law gives homeowners the option to construct ADUs and sell them like condominiums, increasing the prospects of homeownership.

www.latimes.com

 

[Richard D]

Kalifornia. Damn I‘m glad to live in Texas.

 

[drmarkr]

Kalifornia. Damn I‘m glad to live in Texas.

You spelled it wrong....starts with a C.......ommie,,,, lol.