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Question for all you woodworkers

Crusarius

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I have a radiant floor concrete slab in my house that I want to cover with some nice hickory hardwood that I am going to saw from my own trees.

Being that the floor is poured concrete with radiant tubes in it I do not have any way to fasten the planks to the floor. I don't think glue is an option since it will need to move and the heat from the floor has ruined the glue under the linoleum.

Does anyone know of a router bit set for click to lock joints? I have searched and never seem to come up with anything.

I would like something similar to this
ClickLocFloatingFloor.jpg
 
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Crusarius

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I need something that will keep the planks from separating. Otherwise I will end up with gaps between the boards and dirt inside them.
 

rlitman

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A hardwood floor that's floating? I don't think that's really possible. You're sure to have movement issues. The click-to-lock joints are used on engineered floors that have plywood like laminated cross-oriented grain.

FYI, the water temperature for a radiant floor under wood needs to be higher than the water temperature in a normal slab floor in order to work properly. Have you got separate loops and separate mixing valves to accommodate this?
 
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Crusarius

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A hardwood floor that's floating? I don't think that's really possible. You're sure to have movement issues. The click-to-lock joints are used on engineered floors that have plywood like laminated cross-oriented grain.

FYI, the water temperature for a radiant floor under wood needs to be higher than the water temperature in a normal slab floor in order to work properly. Have you got separate loops and separate mixing valves to accommodate this?

I do have separate zones so that won't be a problem.
 
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Crusarius

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never thought of the local mill that is a good idea.

I was almost thinking something similar to a keyhole cutter for the female side and a straight cutter for the male side with the router set to an angle.

Unfortunately I don't think a keyhole cutter with the appropriate dimensions exists.
 

rlitman

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Well, I still think this is going to buckle, click lock or tongue and groove, but before click-lock existed, you know that engineered flooring used tongue and groove, and just glued the joints, right? Ikea used to rent/sell clamp kits with ratchet straps to hold the floor together.
 
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derosa

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You'll do just as well gluing the pieces together but if there's any heavy weight the floor will tear itself apart. Though you'll have the same issue interlocking flooring.
 

jakemac

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If I was floating a floor on radiant concrete, I'd look for composite panels with a bamboo laminate.
 

LXCam

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Since you seem to be up for the battle. Dowel and glue it and let it float on a rubber membrane. Your wall gaps will be covered by the base board.
 

cgrutt

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I put hardwood T&G Oak flooring directly to concrete slab in a vacation house that I had. The hardwood flooring was 1/2 thickness of normal flooring (I think it was 3/8") and attached to concrete with Urethane adhesive. The urethane remained somewhat flexible and allowed some movement while also providing vapor barrier. Had one issue with expansion popping a section of the flooring over 12 years that I owned house. Fixed that by several courses of boards down by about 1/16" and reapplying. There was no radiant heat in slab and I'm sure if it was temperature controlled there wouldn't have been any issues.
 

mike93lx

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Wood needs to be able to expand and contract. Even if you could do click lock, it wouldn't be appropriate for the material. Tongue and groove is what should be used.
 

derosa

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I think the woodcraft in Henrietta has a bigger selection of router bits, pittsford lumber has a cooler selection of hand tools and a lumber selection to drool over, way more character and a cool old dog
 

mbatarga

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The problem with the type of click/lock joint you show is that there is not a single profile that can make that cut with a router. You'd have to have at least 2 bits for the male side of the joint (one for the edge and another for the undercut.) For the female side of the joint another profile bit would be needed. Of course as others have stated - the configuration of the two joints would have to be very precise.
 

Empty Pockets

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I think the woodcraft in Henrietta has a bigger selection of router bits, pittsford lumber has a cooler selection of hand tools and a lumber selection to drool over, way more character and a cool old dog

In any event, we can agree that Pittsford is a cool place, where you would least expect to find it.
 
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Crusarius

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I will have to make an effort to get up there. I live in canadice and work in clifton springs. Pittsford is a long way from everything :)

Thanx for everyones help.

MBATARG, I was thinking the same thing. I am not worried about the precision I can handle that. Originally I was thinking a bullnose t-slot cutter for the female side but was expecting to need 2 bits to do it right. and the male side I figured I would also need 2 bits. One for the top and one for the bottom.
 

joeyd6

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Some folks have tried to give you real advice, that is being ignored by many (quick lock is only used on engineered floors- tongue and grove is only used on solid wood).

That aside- there are some other fatal flaws nobody mentions. Before wasting time, money and ruing good wood, consider this:

1) You don't even know if you floor can handle wood. Have you done a moisture test without the heat on? How about with the heat on? Some slabs will never get a wood floor if they have too much moisture.

2) You did not mention how you intend to mill this wood. Unstable woods (which hickory is one of) used in flooring must be quarter sawn. It will make the majority of the woods movement vertical, and not horizontal, preventing buckling and cracking. Do you know how to quarter saw? Do you have enough trees to produce enough quarter saw wood?

3) You don't mention how you intend to dry the wood. Are you aware all wood used for flooring needs to be kiln dried and then planed to size? Do you have a proper kiln? Can you get to 11-12% moisture content? If not, you will have a floor that is a complete mess.

4) Radiant heat directly under a solid wood floor can cause the flooring to dry out quickly and contract in size, causing cupping and/or large open gaps between the boards. Any quality shop who knows wood floors, will tell you they never put a solid "unstable" (hickory, cherry, maple & pine) over these systems. If they do, it is without any warranty, as they are all too unstable to not react. Hence the heavy recommendation and practice to use engineered over these systems and limit the temperature to below 80 degrees.

And when all else fails and one still considers doing this, contact some of the major manufacturers (large and small) and then visit some shops who specialize in hard wood floors. Ask them why they never came up with the idea of putting a "click lock" into solid wood- something that every installer would love to speed up installs. They will tell you that it won't work and failure is likely and they won't even make it. Then ask them if they would ever put solid hickory on a slab with a radiant heat system. Most if not all will tell you no- due to its instability.

You can do what you want- have hardwood over a slab. You just need the right wood, with the right install method. Solid self-milled solid hickory is not really an option if you want something that lasts more than a handful of years. Now if you want to make your own engineered version- it is a lot of work, but can be done and will work. It will also be more expensive than if you just bought it.
 
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