Question for gurus about fluorescent lights that don't work...

[country83]

In one part of my garage, there are 5 fluorescent light fixtures, each 8 feet long with 2 bulbs. I plan on replacing them with LED in the near future, as of the 5 fixtures, only 2 work when they feel like it. With those other 3 that don't work, it made me wonder...how much electricity does a nonfunctioning light take when powered? I also have some 4 footers that I've swapped out already that made me wonder the same thing.

Thoughts?

 

[cycle61]

They still use about the same amount of power, in my experience. Say 50-80 watts depending on the ballast and tube.

 

[cybrdyke]

...how much electricity does a nonfunctioning light take when powered?

Thoughts?

There's a lot of variables in this question.
For 8' fixtures...
If your ballast is dead, then the fixture draws no current.
If your ballast is good, but the lamps are dead, then depending on the ballast you have, it uses around 10 watts.
For the 4' fixtures...
If your ballast is dead, then the fixture draws no current.
If your ballast is good, but the lamps are dead, then depending on the ballast you have, it uses around 6 watts.

If something else is wrong, like miswiring, or a problem with your electrical system, then we cant answer your question.
CD

 

[BillK]

Are you sure it isn't the bulbs ? I have one 4 ft one over a bench at work that you have to twist the bulb a little sometimes to make good contact. I have been too lazy to go buy a couple of led tubes to replace the fluorescent ones.

 

[The Bean]

LED fluorescent retrofit

"A fluorescent to LED retrofit involves enhancing your existing fluorescent fixtures by replacing their internal components with LED-compatible ones, usually with a fluorescent light to LED conversion kit.

This approach provides a cost-effective and efficient way to upgrade to LED lighting without the need for complete fixture replacement.

Retrofit tubes (t5, t8, t12, etc.) are one of the most common replacements we see, with the process generally removing the old fluorescent tubes and ballasts, and installing LED tubes or retrofit kits that fit seamlessly into the existing fixtures."

 

[Bert_]

Minimal power, a few watts like cybrdyke said.

It's just a transformer.

 

[country83]

I plan on replacing the 8 footers with 4 ft LEDs. I've purchased the new ones already, I just haven't gotten them installed yet. This is what I have currently:

 

[Bert_]

Rab makes some 8' direct wire led lamps that I've been very happy with. 5500lm per bulb. Last ones I bought were $20 a bulb. It's a good deal for a good quality light. I installed salvaged 8' fixtures but it would save you quite a bit of work if you could use what you already have.

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm all in favour of retrofitting Florescent fixtures with LED tubes .
I can hardly wait for the threads on here when the LED fixtures start to **** out, matches are no longer available & folks start replacing all of their fixtures because they don't match.

 

[country83]

Rab makes some 8' direct wire led lamps that I've been very happy with. 5500lm per bulb. Last ones I bought were $20 a bulb. It's a good deal for a good quality light. I installed salvaged 8' fixtures but it would save you quite a bit of work if you could use what you already have.

Appreciate the thought, but I'm not sure how old the fixtures are. Also, they're directly down the middle of the room, and even if they all worked I'd still have a lot of shadows at the walls. I plan on changing the layout of the lights out back. I got the 4 ft LEDs from Harbor Freight a while back and replaced a couple that didn't work right in the front half of my garage and it made a huge difference, far brighter than the fluorescents they replaced.

 

[Bert_]

Glad you're putting the lights where they need to be. Location is very important.

The tubes I've used are actually less expensive than the hanging shop lights and you get a much better product. Two tubes cost $40 and gives me an 11,000 lumen 8 ft fixture with frosted lens bulbs. RAB is a big name in the lighting business and I trust their lamps to live up to their specs.

The age of the strip lights isn't something to worry about. It's just a metal channel. The ones I used are 50+ years old. I would seriously consider reusing what you have even if you need to move them.

If you already have the strips or can get them for free I would say this is the best fixture you can buy for the money.

 

[tfi racing]

I'm all in favour of retrofitting Florescent fixtures with LED tubes .
I can hardly wait for the threads on here when the LED fixtures start to **** out, matches are no longer available & folks start replacing all of their fixtures because they don't match.

It has already been happening for years, many LED fixtures are obsolete only a few months after they are sold because replacement LED drivers are unavailable, do your research before buying now more than ever.

 

[BillK]

I'm all in favour of retrofitting Florescent fixtures with LED tubes .
I can hardly wait for the threads on here when the LED fixtures start to **** out, matches are no longer available & folks start replacing all of their fixtures because they don't match.

Exactly why I retrofitted all of mine instead of replacing the fixtures.

 

[Chukster]

While the brain trust is available, can you expound on the need for fluorescent fixtures needing a ground connection?

Back when we just moved in our downstairs not-very-bonus room (no insulation at the outside walls, but paneling on furring strips. ) we transitioned from 5 incandescent fixtures recessed into acoustic tile ceiling, and put in the cheapest fluorescent fixtures we could get. EXCEPT! When the house was built (1968) lighting was 2 wire, no ground. So our new troffer tubes sometimes had trouble starting up.


By the time LED no-ballast retrofits started to come along, I'd learned about the ground requirement for the fixtures but had no good way to completely rewire the circuit.

Doing the LED retrofit 12 years ago made the room 'Freakishly Bright'!!

 

[Bert_]

While the brain trust is available, can you expound on the need for fluorescent fixtures needing a ground connection?

Back when we just moved in our downstairs not-very-bonus room (no insulation at the outside walls, but paneling on furring strips. ) we transitioned from 5 incandescent fixtures recessed into acoustic tile ceiling, and put in the cheapest fluorescent fixtures we could get. EXCEPT! When the house was built (1968) lighting was 2 wire, no ground. So our new troffer tubes sometimes had trouble starting up.


By the time LED no-ballast retrofits started to come along, I'd learned about the ground requirement for the fixtures but had no good way to completely rewire the circuit.

Doing the LED retrofit 12 years ago made the room 'Freakishly Bright'!!

Sounds like a rapid start ballast. They need the capacitance created by grounded metal next to the lamps in order to start reliably.

They also get kind of troublesome in high humidity. Often reaching up and touching the lamps can create enough capacitance for them to start. The rapid start ballasts from around the 90's are especially bad. They have a capacitor inside the gets weak and resulting in low lamp current.

Preheat and instant start don't have these starting problems.

 

[country83]

Just to update everyone, yesterday I hung a couple of the new LEDs, and it went OK. Upon taking down the old lights, I found the ballast in the nonfunctioning light had actually leaked.

Here's the lights so far. The 2 to the right are the new LEDs, I didn't have enough time to do all of them. It'll be a project for another day.

 

[Innovate1]

I hope they last for you but I am guessing those HF lights are going to be going out within a couple years if you use them regularly. I could be wrong. Anyone have these lights up for at least a couple years with good results? I went with fixtures with replaceable LED tubes - rewired some fixtures I had and bought new tube fixtures when I built my shop a few years ago.

 

[four.cycle]

My sister's studio has three banks of fluorescent lights in Studio A, and two banks in Studio B. All 48-inch fixtures. Plus the bathrooms, dressing rooms, and offices. (If ALL the lights are on, there are over a hundred individual tubes in use.)
I am regularly going over to replace bulbs for the last 20+ years. Sometimes two or three at a time.
About four years ago, I stopped buying the standard T32 fluorescent tubes and talked her into blowing a bit more money on "plug and play" LED replacement TUBES.
Over the last few years, three or four fixtures have gone wonky - replacing bulbs didn't fix the problem. I yanked the entire fixtures down and replaced them with "plug and play" LED replacement fixtures. The last one didn't even have bulbs - just these skinny "LED strips" - very odd, but I hung it up and it works great.
I had a 48-inch dual-tube (F40) fluorescent above my work bench in the garage. Replaced it with an LED fixture about ... 3 years ago. (?)

Thus far I have experienced ZERO issues with any of these, and I have yet to REPLACE a "burned out" LED tube over at the studio.

I have given thought to "what's next?" in respect to technological upgrades. I am not really all that concerned about it, because throwing a little money at the problem means I do not have to screw around with unreliable flaky fluorescent fixtures any more.

<edit> forgot to mention: the ability to SEE better with improved lighting is well worth the monetary investment: no comparison between LED and fluorescent lighting.

 

[dcg9381]

<edit> forgot to mention: the ability to SEE better with improved lighting is well worth the monetary investment: no comparison between LED and fluorescent lighting.

I've gone fully LED also. I'm sure the long term amount of "time saved" in my lifetime is going to be substantial. We have not had a single failure in 4 years in the shop (UFO style lights). Our house probably has 40+ recessed can LEDs, two have failed in 3 years.

What I will say about lighting is that it's easy to "over light" an area, especially if you're doing interior residential. Even the shop can be "too bright" for me in the evenings when we just want to have a nice evening down there, so I recommend that everything be put on dimmers unless it's dedicated "work space" and not evening play space/interior residential.

 

[Steve W.]

About four years ago, I stopped buying the standard T32 fluorescent tubes and talked her into blowing a bit more money on "plug and play" LED replacement TUBES.

Hopefully, you mean T12, not T32, as a T32 would be 4 inches in diameter.

.

 

[four.cycle]

^ yeah I think you're right. I try to NOT memorize part numbers any more.
skinny bulbs - just under an inch in diameter - two brass pins on each end.
not the standard "fat tube" 48-inchers like those on my garage ceiling.
the entire studio is wired with those things - building dates from the 1980s and I think she's been there over 20 years now, so a LOT of bulbs.
made a HUGE difference replacing the bulbs in the exterior fixtures - the girls have to climb two flights of stairs and then traverse along an elevated walkway (about a 200-foot walk total) and the old fluorescents just didn't cut it - way mo' betta with the LEDs - you can actually SEE when you're going up the stairs at night.

 

[Steve W.]

The size of the bulb is encoded in the name, but it's still in code. The "T" says it's a Tubular bulb, the number after the T says how many eighths of an inch it is in diameter. A T5 bulb is 5/8" diameter, a T8 is 8/8", or one inch, a T12 is 12/8" or 1.5".

.

 

[four.cycle]

^ just what I needed: some more technical stuff in my memory banks.

 

[Steve W.]

It just takes some of the mystery out of it. The scary part is ... it actually makes sense.

.

 

[PlanB]

I just converted 2 fluorescent T12 fixtures with the GE ballast by pass led tube's. Household electrical works makes me nervous but these were ok. Just mak sure you get the hot both ends type.

The instructions said to wire in an online 1 amp fuse. I didn't. Will this be a problem?

 

[The Cobbler]

Will this be a problem?

probably not. but probably not a bad idea since they mentioned it.

 

[country83]

Another update: I got the rest of the wiring redone and the lights hung, and it makes a HUGE difference!

I only have 6 lights up, but there's room on the receptacle boxes for 2 more, plus the lights can be daisy chained if necessary.

I'm happy!

 

[cybrdyke]

I just converted 2 fluorescent T12 fixtures with the GE ballast by pass led tube's. Household electrical works makes me nervous but these were ok. Just mak sure you get the hot both ends type.

The instructions said to wire in an online 1 amp fuse. I didn't. Will this be a problem?

GE always puts this in their instructions because they get sued alot. It wont be a problem.
CD

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm all in favour of retrofitting Florescent fixtures with LED tubes .
I can hardly wait for the threads on here when the LED fixtures start to **** out, matches are no longer available & folks start replacing all of their fixtures because they don't match.

That was my thought when LED gained in popularity.

Exactly why I retrofitted all of mine instead of replacing the fixtures.

I did the same. I had already upgraded to newer 8' 4 bulb T8 fixtures. The easiest thing for me to do was just swap bulbs.

In the 15 years my Strip lights have been up, I have replaced 2 ballast. I know I could do without the ballast but why mess with something that is working fine?

The size of the bulb is encoded in the name, but it's still in code. The "T" says it's a Tubular bulb, the number after the T says how many eighths of an inch it is in diameter. A T5 bulb is 5/8" diameter, a T8 is 8/8", or one inch, a T12 is 12/8" or 1.5".

.

It's much like rebar. #4 is 1/2". #6 is 3/4" so on and so on.

OP, glad things are working out well with the new lights. The biggest problem I see with 8' two bulb fixtures is hauling the bulbs and disposing of them.