Question for pro wrenches using pro tools

[Squeeze]

Are tools usually the same price from the truck as the website (mac snap on matco?) I know each franchisee (driver) sets their own price.

Do they give a discount if you are a professional mechanic?

Not that I need those tools but I like to collect, usually used but just wanted to know.

 

[krusty the clown]

their market IS the professional mechanic. most trucks sell at list price which is the same as the web price. some dealers will give a small discout for cash or discount items that they can't otherwise sell.

 

[Diesel-Mech]

Krusty nailed it, sometimes you can catch a break but generally it will be List price.

 

[Squeeze]

I meant if a yahoo like me walks up to the truck on the lot of a shop am I going to pay what the guys inside pay?

 

[Squeeze]

Thanks for the response.

 

[Merkava_4]

The guy should charge you list price or less; if the guy charges you more than list price, all bets are off - time to go loot the truck.

 

[krusty the clown]

I meant if a yahoo like me walks up to the truck on the lot of a shop am I going to pay what the guys inside pay?

most likely yes.

 

[Squeeze]

That seems crazy to me that they won't give 10% if you are a regular or bought a box from them. I am a motorcycle guy and even bike shops do that if you buy a bike or are a regular, or just ask.

 

[Merkava_4]

I think they should eat the tax if the guy is paying list price with cash in full.

 

[Diesel-Mech]

The biggest perk for techs is that you can pay on credit interest free.

 

[davestlouis]

The only deals I've gotten on a tool truck were old stock that my SO guy was trying to unload when he knew his franchise was getting terminated...BIG discounts on that stuff.

 

[danc333]

The Snap on guy I buy from charges me the same price as the web, but he usually thows in something. i.e. The rubber tip when i bought a blow gun. It's not much but it means something to me. When I bought my screwdrivers from the Matco guy he charged me a little less (like 10%) and no tax because I piad cash.

 

[Squeeze]

I ordered some small parts to rebuild an air ratchet and noticed they charged tax (wierd for mail order out of state) but did not charge shipping. That puts it at truck price then.

 

[speed bump]

I think they should eat the tax if the guy is paying list price with cash in full.

Why? The two biggest appeals to the pro tool trucks are: 1.) It comes to you which in and of itself is worth a premium. For example yesterday I was at the junkyard pulling a firewall cover out of a ford pickup and the clutch linkage was in the way. After half an hour of fiddling with it because I didn't have any useful way to get the cotter pin out I would of gladly handed the SO the $25 or whatever a new cotter pin puller cost if he showed up with one then. 2.) Credit which for someone who maybe takes home $400 a week being able to buy that $5,000 diagnostic tool is suddenly within reach for only $25 a week. This does lead to the fact that then said tool company suddenly realizes "hey if these guys need these tools and are buying them on credit we can inflate the prices and they won't care because all they see is X amount per week".

For me I can see the appeal for most people even with things you don't need right away because after working for 40 to 80 hours a week and dealing with family and day to day things some weeks you don't want to go out and spend 3 hours hunting down those next couple of cheap tool purchases. You want to spend that 3 hours polishing your hot rod, riding the bike, fishing, shooting, or bonking the old lady . So you just say sell me that $200 socket set and free up your weekend.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I ordered some small parts to rebuild an air ratchet and noticed they charged tax (wierd for mail order out of state).

Snap-On Corporation probably has business entities in virtually every state (if nothing more than a regional reps office), and thus would be obligated to collect sales tax for those states.

Charles

 

[nissan_crawler]

It depends on what it is. List price, sometimes better. I don't push everytime, but once in a while, I get her to work in a deal.

 

[Vinko]

he charged me a little less (like 10%) and no tax because I piad cash.

I've gotten this deal on a few cash items. Stuff like $50 or under for cash. 10% off and no tax. I think 15% off once.

 

[Vinko]

2.) Credit which for someone who maybe takes home $400 a week being able to buy that $5,000 diagnostic tool is suddenly within reach for only $25 a week. This does lead to the fact that then said tool company suddenly realizes "hey if these guys need these tools and are buying them on credit we can inflate the prices and they won't care because all they see is X amount per week".

There is something tragic about this. I know your just using these numbers as examples, but I'm amazed that some of these guys who don't make a hell of a lot get themselves into serious hock for years. At least, that's what my SO driver tells me.

 

[Merkava_4]

Why?

Because he gets his money right now; he doesn't have to wait for a check to clear or a bank to credit his account if he's using an old fashion credit card machine; he gets his money right now. The other reason is that if I'm paying a premium price for a tool, I expect something in return.

 

[autoace]

Dealers give deals on sets, and toolboxes, and sometimes stuff they want to get rid of. Otherwise it is list price.

 

[Chris Adams]

Lots of people still don’t seem to understand. Tool trucks are not ‘tool distributers’ They are credit companies.
Their main focus is on payments, collections, cash flow.
The whole business model is that of Kirby vacuum, who did it before the tool trucks.

The business plan is to solicit people who cannot afford to pay cash, thus are dependent on credit.

Read up on the old company stores, or go to the poor part of town and look for the small stores that extend credit.

Or go to a ‘finance anyone’ car store. Or furniture store, or rent-to-own.
All are on the same business plan.

This is not to say that Snap-On doesn’t make good tools, anymore than Kirby made bad vacuum cleaners.

Good quality tools are required for this way of doing business to work.

Cash flow is what keeps the truck driver eating, rather than volume sales.

So cash is actually LESS desirable for a truck that is working optimally.

Go to a ‘finance anyone’ used car store and try to get a cash deal. Not gonna happen. They want premium quality cars that they can sell for credit, thus collecting two or three times the actual value of the car.

Tool trucks serve a valid purpose. They allow poor starting mechanics to perform their job.
They invent, produce and distribute specialty tools that would not even exist if not for the truck business format.

They enable the shop mechanic to get tools that would cost more cash than he has, getting them at the site, thus keeping the customers coming in.

But it’s not about the tools, it’s about credit for mechanics and cash flow for the truck driver.

 

[krusty the clown]

interesting.......i didn't know kirby was in business before snap on.

 

[Chris Adams]

interesting.......i didn't know kirby was in business before snap on.

When I was messing with Kirby that was in their videos. Not that they were around before snap-on, but that they were using the sales model from the 30's. That is, cash flow/credit for premium items that would sell for much less if retailed.

 

[Gregster]

Regardless of how the business is structured it's very very rare these days to find a place that will extend you credit without a credit check. This is why off the truck finacing is so appealing to many. I don't see the big deal with paying for stuff on a weekly basis as long as you are paying it...

My SO driver gives credit up to 500$ but you need to build up a half decent history with him. This means paying cash for items for a few weeks. I do have an account with my guy, I do pay cash for my tools. However because of today I now owe him 50$, His debit machine wasn't working again....

My co-worker is 23 year old father to a new born. He doesn't have many tools, has no cash and asks me what he should buy since he is just starting off. I told him you can either go Snap-On right now and pay the guy weekly or get a CC from Sears and never be finished paying it. Today he bought a rather nice impact gun off the truck, he will be paying the driver 60$ a week.

 

[krusty the clown]

When I was messing with Kirby that was in their videos. Not that they were around before snap-on, but that they were using the sales model from the 30's. That is, cash flow/credit for premium items that would sell for much less if retailed.

i think that has been snap on business model since thier inception in 1920.

i believe that was the reason for the founding of snap on.........american grinder would not direct market blackhawk tools to mechanics on payments.

i'm not sure who first used the system but it obviously works for both kirby and snap on!

 

[speed bump]

Because he gets his money right now; he doesn't have to wait for a check to clear or a bank to credit his account if he's using an old fashion credit card machine; he gets his money right now. The other reason is that if I'm paying a premium price for a tool, I expect something in return.

Try that at a car dealership they actually make more money by putting it on credit. Using credit is figured into those tool costs so if you pay cash its gravy but its usually for smaller items (Very few people will walk in with 100 $100 bills for that new tool box) and thus unless your a good customer or appear to have that potential very few dealers will feel compelled to offer any discount.

Also you already got the premium price return, the tools came to you and can be financed without jumping through any hoops.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Lots of people still don’t seem to understand. Tool trucks are not ‘tool distributers’ They are credit companies.
Their main focus is on payments, collections, cash flow.
The whole business model is that of Kirby vacuum, who did it before the tool trucks.

The business plan is to solicit people who cannot afford to pay cash, thus are dependent on credit.

Read up on the old company stores, or go to the poor part of town and look for the small stores that extend credit.

Or go to a ‘finance anyone’ car store. Or furniture store, or rent-to-own.
All are on the same business plan.

This is not to say that Snap-On doesn’t make good tools, anymore than Kirby made bad vacuum cleaners.

Good quality tools are required for this way of doing business to work.

Cash flow is what keeps the truck driver eating, rather than volume sales.

So cash is actually LESS desirable for a truck that is working optimally.

Go to a ‘finance anyone’ used car store and try to get a cash deal. Not gonna happen. They want premium quality cars that they can sell for credit, thus collecting two or three times the actual value of the car.

Tool trucks serve a valid purpose. They allow poor starting mechanics to perform their job.
They invent, produce and distribute specialty tools that would not even exist if not for the truck business format.

They enable the shop mechanic to get tools that would cost more cash than he has, getting them at the site, thus keeping the customers coming in.

But it’s not about the tools, it’s about credit for mechanics and cash flow for the truck driver.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Why would any business rather take payments, when he's not collecting interest. The tool trucks sell on credit with no interest, so wheres the financial advantage to payments instead of a full payment transaction? I can see trying to build a client base and to increase sales by extending credit, but I see no conection to selling on credit without interest and a better cash flow to the truck owner.

 

[krusty the clown]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Why would any business rather take payments, when he's not collecting interest. The tool trucks sell on credit with no interest, so wheres the financial advantage to payments instead of a full payment transaction? I can see trying to build a client base and to increase sales by extending credit, but I see no conection to selling on credit without interest and a better cash flow to the truck owner.

the tool business is based on cash flow not profit. you are taught to build 200 customers with an agverage balance of $100 and payments of $20 a week. your cash flow is based on collections not sales. cash sales are nice but there are not enough customers with that ability to maintain the business.

 

[bimmerteck]

I have a large Snap-On box filled with many Snap-On tools, I owe them nothing and rarely have(I normally pay cash), I got most of my tools for 20-30% off b/c the dealer knew I was the Lead tech at my facility, what does that mean you ask? Every time a new guy started fresh out of school they would usually have to borrow some tools, and each time they borrowed a tool more than once a month as they were returning it I would casually say "It looks to me like you might need to invest in one of those ______" Sure they "might" buy a different brand the next week, but the SO dealer knew the first one that was handed to them was the SO and most of the time they would buy from him because they had liked the tool I had just loaned them. I had a SO lab scope that ended up selling that dealer 4 more just like it, 1 to the dealership I was working for and 3 more to techs I worked with. Getting SO tools into key bays at large shops is instrumental in selling SO tools to other techs there, and when a dozen or so guys are all buying from the dealer it makes him want to take real good care of that particular shop b/c if he doesn't he knows he will potentially lose 12 customers not just one.

 

[Squeeze]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Why would any business rather take payments, when he's not collecting interest. The tool trucks sell on credit with no interest, so wheres the financial advantage to payments instead of a full payment transaction?

I think the idea is if they sell on credit they have a sale that day and start collecting next week, instead of waiting for the person to save up to buy the tool in say 10 weeks. It eliminates the chance the person buys it from another source, or decide they don't really need it in the first place.

 

[davestlouis]

It's like any other credit-based sale...it's not "real" money, so $300 for a set of wrenches doesn't sound so bad when it's $20/week...they are payment buyers, not price shoppers.

 

[joeswamp]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Why would any business rather take payments, when he's not collecting interest. The tool trucks sell on credit with no interest, so wheres the financial advantage to payments instead of a full payment transaction?

Something tells me the interest might just be built into the price.

They don't discount for cash because that would look like the average working customer (who pays on credit) is getting swindled.

 

[bimmerteck]

Something tells me the interest might just be built into the price.

They don't discount for cash because that would look like the average working customer (who pays on credit) is getting swindled.

He isn't getting swindled he's paying interest on his loan, hence why my dealer always cut 20 to 30% off tools I bought cash as long as I didn't advertise the discount.

 

[krusty the clown]

He isn't getting swindled he's paying interest on his loan, hence why my dealer always cut 20 to 30% off tools I bought cash as long as I didn't advertise the discount.

uhh......you just did


snap on markup is 33%..........if he's giving you a 30% discount he's not really making much

 

[bimmerteck]

uhh......you just did

I'm not a professional tech anymore, I finished school and moved into a different field. BTW Working in an office all day now ***** but it makes evenings in my home garage feel much more relaxing.

I said 20%-30% and I can tell you right now that the Solus, Modis and Vantage all have to a higher markup as do their packages (euro) b/c I got a very good discount when I bought my Vantage Pro. Most of my hand tools were 20% but I spent $54k with SO in a 36 month period so my volume made up for a lot of money he "missed" by giving me a discount. Besides him selling me a set @20% virtually guaranteed that at least one of the techs living paycheck to paycheck who were working below me would "finance" a set at full retail.

 

[joeswamp]

He isn't getting swindled he's paying interest on his loan

Agree I shouldn't have said "swindled", I should have said "paying big time interest". Which makes the deal seem not so good.

If you are a mechanic starting out with bad credit and the SO guy lets you pay over long periods of time with zero percent interest, then the tools really aren't that expensive. On the other hand, they are very expensive if you have to pay the same price in cash.

 

[WVU Tuba Dale]

I got quoted on a Mac Tech 1000 box for $2100, no tax. I saw it listed on the website for $3600. The SnapOn guy usually goes for list unless you pay cash.

 

[joeswamp]

If you are a mechanic starting out with bad credit and the SO guy lets you pay over long periods of time with zero percent interest, then the tools really aren't that expensive. On the other hand, they are very expensive if you have to pay the same price in cash.

OK I take this back. This discussion led me to wonder just how much interest SO is charging the new mechanic, and I suddenly realized it was possible to estimate. The interest charges are pretty significant.

There are certain tools that SO buys and rebrands, and I'm about 99.9% sure that Precision Instruments supplies them with several of their torque wrenches. I have both a SO and a PI torque wrench and they're identical, same case and everything.

The list price of the 20-100ft-lb split beam torque wrench is $175 from Precision Instruments, and $250 from Snap-On.

Let's say the SO guy allows you to buy the $250 wrench for $25 per week for ten weeks. If you imagine this as an amortized mini-mortgage, this is like paying back $250 on a loan for $175. In any kind of loan you always pay back more than you borrow, but the question is: what is the equivalent annual interest rate? I used an amortization calculator to estimate this, and it's about 467%

Of course, with the SO guy you're getting the truck and the warranty and everything, so the wrench from SO is worth more. Let's split the difference and assume that the wrench from SO is really worth $212.50. In this case, the interest rate drops to about 198%, better than before but still way deep into ******** loan shark territory.

So I guess there's two ways to look at this: one is that if you're a young mechanic with high credit risk, you're going to pay sky-high interest rates. Second, I love the Snap-on tools that I have, but man they're pricey no matter how you look at them...

*****
Note: I assumed here that you made the payments at the "beginning of the period", that is you paid the first $25 when you got the wrench. The rates drop to something like 365% and 175% if you take the wrench and make the first payment the next week (paying "end of period").

I should also point out that I've only looked at one rebranded tool and these results might not be typical.

 

[Vinko]

get a CC from Sears and never be finished paying it.

I've noticed that Sears has been extending 12 mos. of 0% interest if you buy $299 worth of tools. This might only apply to certain tools, I don't know.

Today he bought a rather nice impact gun off the truck, he will be paying the driver 60$ a week.

just curious:
Given that you can get an IR 231C for a little over $100 from Amazon, wouldn't this be a better route than a S-O gun, if the guy is strapped for cash? Or would it not be possible to come up with $100 at once? Not to mention repair, etc., I suppose.....

 

[Vinko]

Something tells me the interest might just be built into the price.

They don't discount for cash because that would look like the average working customer (who pays on credit) is getting swindled.

You know, I wonder if the really significant mark-up isn't from the truck driver to the mechanic but from SO to the truck driver. The truck driver only marks up 30-something percent. I wonder what kind of margin S-O makes?