question for the gas fitters out there

[airwalk]

So I am trying to determine how to get natural gas out to my detached garage, and hoping I can just tie into my existing line in the house or if I need a new line ran from the meter. Here is what I have currently and what I'd like to do:

I have a 1" line coming into the house from the meter which is 15' long. At the end of this the furnace (3/4" line) and hot water heater (1/2" line) are tied in. From here it shrinks to a 3/4" line for another 16' to a T, which consists of a 1/2" line to the BBQ and a 1/2" line to the laundry (which I will likely never use). The line to the BBQ is another 16'.
My garage is 1280 sq. ft. so I would like to have 60,000 BTUs or more of heat output in there.
What I think can be done is replace the 3/4" line with a 1" line, all the way to the BBQ. From here there would be a T, with 1/2" for the BBQ and 1" or 3/4" to the garage, which would be about 30' from this point.

I'm no expert, so any advice on this project would be greatly appreciated. If you need more information just let me know.

Thanks!

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I don't have my gas pressure software handy, but off the top of my head, I'd say as long as you can get back on the 3/4" anywhere, without reducing you should be fine.

Is the garage attached? Does any of your pipe need to go underground?

Phil

 

[airwalk]

The garage is detached. As well, my 30' to the garage measurement is only to the outside wall, I didn't think about this before, but there could be another 15 to 50 more length depending on where the heater(s) are installed.
As well, I can have as little as 5' of the 30' or most of it underground, whichever is better. How does this affect things?

 

[birchbark]

i am a certified gas fitter with a canadian red seal ticket. according to the sizing charts in the canadian gas code you are able to run as far as 100' with a 1/2"line keeping in mind this is total length from supply point to your heater.are you able to tee in right at the meter set for your underground line or is that not convenient?

 

[airwalk]

Teeing in at the meter is what I am kind of hoping to avoid. The problem with this is the meter is on the opposite side of the house as the garage is, and so the underground line would either have to be placed across the main power line coming into the house or across the sewer line going to the septic tank, either of which I would assume are either turned down by installers or equal $$$$.
When you talk about the sizing charts, are you saying I could run a 1/2" line up to 100' if this came right off the meter, or is this tying into the existing piping? How many BTUs would that supply?

Here's another question, is it ok to run a line above ground, outside, most of the way? What I'm thinking now is teeing into the meter and running the line along the house, say just below the siding, and then going underground for the span from the house to the garage. Is this possible, or does it have to be underground?

 

[duaneb9729]

I believe he means 100 equiv feet, by that every elbow every tee has a equiv length in feet which you would add together along with your straight lengths of pipe.

Personally I would run 3/4, at least part of the way just to keep the amount of avaible BTU's higher for you. And it would give you some flexibility in locating your heater.

 

[birchbark]

yes you can run along the edge of the house and then go underground no problem.you can get 60,000 btu out of a 1/2" line at 100',but yes we never run underground less than 3/4" for future considerations.also the gas sizing charts in the gas code have allowances built in for normal amounts of fittings needed to run to your appliance.

 

[airwalk]

Great, thanks a lot for the information, I would definitely run 3/4", if not 1", as I'll be touching the 100' length and maybe a little more.
Another question, if I was to tee in at the meter, would I need a seperate shutoff for the garage line, or is it good enough to just have a shutoff at the heater(s) itself?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If you tee it at the meter, I would definitely have a shut off at the meter to kill that line to the garage as well as a seperate shut off to kill the heater from inside the garage.

How are you thinking about doing the underground part? Bare steel?

Phil

 

[birchbark]

you do not need a valve if you tie in at the meter,but you do need an isolation valve where your new line would go underground to the garage.you would do this in the polyethelyne gas line that is available.also a tracer wire must be put in the same trench.this line must be a min.of 15" deep,or 18"if it goes under a driveway.i am presuming that this is a springtime project as with the -40 temps we had last week the frost level must be going down fast.

 

[airwalk]

with that polyethelyne gas line, can it be buried as is, or does it need to go inside of something? Reason I ask is the line coming from underground into the meter is encased in a larger conduit, although it looks like just steel line so maybe that is the difference. As well, is tracer line available at the hardware store with the poly pipe? Could this isolation valve be just a regular ball valve (gas approved) or does it have to be something special?
The frost is most likely already fairly deep with that weather, so it might have to wait until spring. That is a lot shallower than I expected though.

 

[Notch1988]

Check with your town or gas company, they will likely make the poly gas line for you. My town did mine, I just provided the measurements and they built it and dropped it in the hole. The line has to have steel risers at either end as plastic is not permitted above ground. As well, I think the isolation valve is only required with plastic underground. If you went with copper or steel you don't need the isolation valve before it goes underground.

Do you have electrical to the garage already?

 

[Andamo]

When I went to run the gas to my garage, I put in a T where the gas goes to the hot water tank in the house and ran black iron pipe thru the basement wall. I then ran the pipe under my deck for about 30' and into the garage between the 2 floors of the garage. Then the pipe went 36 + feet to the other end of the garage for the heater, and I also put a T in for a smaller heater upstairs. I just bought 10' lengths of black iron pipe, a inexpensive manual pipe threader from Harbor Freight and a a bunch of fittings. When I was done, I put a gauge on one end of the pipe and used the air compressor to pressure up the pipe to check for leaks. Only had 1 small leak, which I repaired, and I was good. I can run both heaters, the furnace in the house and the hot water tank with no problems.

 

[birchbark]

your local hardware store will not carry that pipe.it is available at most gas companies and like in a previous post they will make it for you and also supply the tracer wire.it will come with a steel riser fused on each end and be ready to bury.the isolation valve must be a dielectric insulating type that has a built in union also.if you have no luck finding materials in your area,they are available at can-con gas in edmonton.

 

[airwalk]

Check with your town or gas company, they will likely make the poly gas line for you. My town did mine, I just provided the measurements and they built it and dropped it in the hole. The line has to have steel risers at either end as plastic is not permitted above ground. As well, I think the isolation valve is only required with plastic underground. If you went with copper or steel you don't need the isolation valve before it goes underground.

Do you have electrical to the garage already?

Is there anything special about burying just steel? I do have electricity tothe garage already.

When I went to run the gas to my garage, I put in a T where the gas goes to the hot water tank in the house and ran black iron pipe thru the basement wall. I then ran the pipe under my deck for about 30' and into the garage between the 2 floors of the garage. Then the pipe went 36 + feet to the other end of the garage for the heater, and I also put a T in for a smaller heater upstairs. I just bought 10' lengths of black iron pipe, a inexpensive manual pipe threader from Harbor Freight and a a bunch of fittings. When I was done, I put a gauge on one end of the pipe and used the air compressor to pressure up the pipe to check for leaks. Only had 1 small leak, which I repaired, and I was good. I can run both heaters, the furnace in the house and the hot water tank with no problems.

This is basically what I was originally thinking of doing. What size of piping did you use?

Thanks for the reference birchbark, I'll keep that place in mind.

 

[Notch1988]

With steel it has to be welded joints underground, threaded joints are not permitted. Basically, plastic is the easiest and cheapest way to go.

If you decide to go from inside your house to the garage, you will then need a shutoff valve when it leaves your house and one before it enters your garage.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If you bury bare-steel underground, it will last anywhere between 1 and 100 years, based on how you treat it and the soil conditions. If you only need to go 5' underground, and it's out in the middle of the yard somewhere, where a leak would be unlikely to migrate to the foundation, that would be an option. You could bend your 3/4" into a U to avoid leaving threads underground.

If you do go that route (bare steel) do not attempt to coat it or paint it with anything, as that will make corrosion concentrate at any defect in your coating and eat through the pipe wall there rapidly. You want the bare steel to rust through along it's entire surface at a steady rate. In the right soil (dry sandy soil) it could last for decades.

PE gas line (MUST SAY "GAS" ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PIPE) is the preferred method...but the risers cost about $30 each (in quantity) so it's going to be a lot of money for 5'. Also, you need to be very careful to backup your wrench when hooking to the riser, as you can tear it up if you don't. An anodeless riser has a compression coupling underneath the outside jacket that hooks the PE to the steel. You can apply too much torque to the vertical riser and tear it up.

They make special tracer wire that has a thicker than normal coating, but you could actually use any 12 or 14 gauge coated copper wire to use for a tracer.

The two things you CAN'T do are use any plastic pipe that isn't for gas (and if it is it will say "gas" on it) OR use any plastic of any kind above ground. It isn't allowed.

Phil