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Question for you guys about tools.

dsmnickk90

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You do know that Sears has outsourced the Craftsman tools to China?

Exactly. I don't dislike my Craftsman tools at all but the warranty is not useless. My tools are pretty much half Craftsman and the other half is Armstrong. If anything was to break now I will be getting store credit and replacing it with Armstrong.
 
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2mJps

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Not to put any one down but how many poeple could afford to take advantage of this deal. I dont know every thing about it but if SO would give a student discount that would be good for 1 or 2 years after they graduated and seen if they wanted to be a mechanic i think would be a better deal. Yes SO are nice but i have only 2 SO in my box and sleep ok knowing that.
 

dsmnickk90

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Not to put any one down but how many poeple could afford to take advantage of this deal. I dont know every thing about it but if SO would give a student discount that would be good for 1 or 2 years after they graduated and seen if they wanted to be a mechanic i think would be a better deal. Yes SO are nice but i have only 2 SO in my box and sleep ok knowing that.

If they don't want to be in the trade after the graduate the just wasted 30k or more. I don't think spending money on SO tools is the bad choice there as they can sell them. You can't sell the 2 year program back to the school you have a 100% loss.
 

2oolhound

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In response to those who are using the "what if you decide down the road this trade isn't for you" concept -

I bought a SO torx socket set for just under 1/2 price from a young gal who took a coarse and worked in the field for less than a year before deciding it wasn't for her. She was trying to get 10 to 20¢ on the dollar for her Chinadian Tire tools and they weren't moving judging by the quantity she had left. She said she was going to put them in one big lot and take the best offer. It may have been a deal for the right person but I didn't want the clutter in my box.

The point is she got most of her money back on her SO investment but took a hit on the cheap stuff.
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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As for hurting oneself, I really doubt using a tool 10X in cost will be a guarantee for avoiding injury.

Again, it goes back to personal experience and choices and anyone can get hurt even with the best of tools, I know.
When I started wrenching, I went the cheap tool route to build up a set quick..... I broke 3 large HF wrenches (1 1/2" to 2") in about a week at one point....without using any cheater pipe, just my own weight....I was not hurt, but did nearly fall off the side of the machine when one let go -- 6 or 8 feet to the concrete would have sucked if I hadn't caught myself....so I choose not to buy any more **** tools.
 

sberry

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I got a 3/4 impact, a heavy one. I have an inch drive handle with a reducer and have broken it once, bent the handle, slid a pipe over it as a booster, it works but that can get one in to trouble. I saw some oilpatch types bust some tail with junk, I wouldnt assume any of it to be worth jumping on, put myself in a situation that hasnt proven out. Even some big hammer wrenches come in, I got a couple in sizes I face just in case or as backup to impact. I got enouogh air I could run a bigger gun but its rare I use the one I have.
 

richfinn

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Heres why Snap-On @ 50% is the best deal.

1. Its a similar price to the other brands (with the discount)

2. The Warranty

3. The resale value if your not "cut-out" to really wield tools (I,ll return to this)

4. They just work better when you are f*cking around in tightly packed car engine bays
(this is why you only really need the input of car technicians)

5. $2000 isn,t really a lot of money to a decent vehicle tech to be honest, and when you are bang at it in 5-10 years time, you will look back and think It was some of the best coin you ever spent.

6. I,m not going to ******** you and start telling you they are an investment in your future or any of that ****, they are just very very good mechanics tools that make life easier and quicker (you can get by with cheaper tools, but why make life harder?)

7. You might find as a female that this life isn,t for you, and you want to have babies and all the other stuff females enjoy (I,m no expert on this stuff BTW, I,m just a good observer :)). At this point you have a really nice tool kit to keep for your own enjoyment and fixing up your own cars or you can sell it to the vultures on GJ for 50% which is about what you paid for it)

How can you lose??
 

sberry

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These tools and some education can pay off down the road even if you dont go to a dealer to be a line mechanic. I had a year of automotive at a CC and a year of Welding, part of a year maybe. I didnt care less about any kind of program degree and shot thru most of the program stuff and very little lab, got whizzed by some basics that benifited me a long the way. Engine class, brakes class, wire up some tail lights. Lots of the worlds inovations, movements, systems found on a modern car. Lots of learn to use hands, every mechanically inclined type should spin around on car service for a bit.

People that can learn a bit about how a car works and some mechanical basics can learn other stuff too.

A little structured instruction doesnt hurt and its easier to teach someone that has had some trade school. I really got no interest in most of it to some extent, its all means to an end. What is stopping me, its a production issue kind of like a fireman. Broken machine/car/truck doesnt stop me.

When I worked a job it was for a paycheck, when I learned it was cause I wanted to know, still look back at the way some guys did stuff. Small company owners were often really technically profeccient, some genius in their own right or specialists.
 
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Brownsfan

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Again, it goes back to personal experience and choices and anyone can get hurt even with the best of tools, I know.
When I started wrenching, I went the cheap tool route to build up a set quick..... I broke 3 large HF wrenches (1 1/2" to 2") in about a week at one point....without using any cheater pipe, just my own weight....I was not hurt, but did nearly fall off the side of the machine when one let go -- 6 or 8 feet to the concrete would have sucked if I hadn't caught myself....so I choose not to buy any more **** tools.

Like you said its from personal expieriance. It is more likely that the cheap Chinese or Indian made wrench is going to break at the worst time than a good USA made wrench. Do I have facts to back that up? No. But I have personal expieriance and have seen it with my own eyes. I do electrical only so I am not that hard on my stuff. But I can tell you my good USA made wire cutter/crimpers work far better than the hf cutter/crimper. Anyone that says the will do the job just as good is delusional. Tools in question. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...742281&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all. And the crappy. http://www.harborfreight.com/9-1-2-half-inch-wire-crimping-tool-36411.html. So all the snap on hating hf lovers are going to tell me that these will work just as good for just as long? I don't think so
 
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richfinn

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These tools and some education can pay off down the road even if you dont go to a dealer to be a line mechanic. I had a year of automotive at a CC and a year of Welding, part of a year maybe. I didnt care less about any kind of program degree and shot thru most of the program stuff and very little lab, got whizzed by some basics that benifited me a long the way. Engine class, brakes class, wire up some tail lights. Lots of the worlds inovations, movements, systems found on a modern car. Lots of learn to use hands, every mechanically inclined type should spin around on car service for a bit.

People that can learn a bit about how a car works and some mechanical basics can learn other stuff too.

A little structured instruction doesnt hurt and its easier to teach someone that has had some trade school. I really got no interest in most of it to some extent, its all means to an end. What is stopping me, its a production issue kind of like a fireman. Broken machine/car/truck doesnt stop me.

When I worked a job it was for a paycheck, when I learned it was cause I wanted to know, still look back at the way some guys did stuff. Small company owners were often really technically profeccient, some genius in their own right or specialists.

I,m sure you mean well, but its really hard following your posts. At present my understanding of your position is:

1. "buy used tools and dont worry about quality too much as your gonna smash seven bags of **** out of them everyday."

2. "a little technical education is all you need, dont worry about getting your qualifications, fixing stuff is a piece of piss."

I,m sure I got it wrong, but thats how it reads to me, sorry.
 

Armstrong1720

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Im not tryin to knock any ones opinions but i was raised with heavy equipment and my family has a shop and every brand of tools their is. But our hired hands started stealin tools and my dad started buying wal mart and other super cheap junk and they would break really easy. They say its warrentied but where do you take it ? Now i have my own trucking company and do all the work ourselves and So i started buying proto and sk. Proto will always be my first love but i have to drive 11/2 to get them warrentied and c'man i drive 30 min and if the store does not have them in stock then they will not order a replacement So i went matco and any time i call him he answers if he dont have it he will the next day !! I have snappy but the guy wont answer the phone. Now i wished i had bought matco to begin with. What im tryin to say is you wont have time to take cman or sk or proto in to be replaced. Go with a tool truck that would be coming by all the time. Your crazy if you dont take the snappy deal !!!
 

sberry

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No, my position most peoples view of themselves and their demands are not accurate. The statistical falure rate of new generations of cheap tools is exagerated, as one guy said,,, he bought a SO breaker bar and it has lasted 40 yrs,,, probably 75 then, well I have HF breaker bar in service 20, half way there for investment of 12$ and it still works.

As for education you read that wrong, I am a proponant, I think many engineering types would be well served by a year of auto repair. As I said,, easy to tell the hand to mouth types that learned a little in the backyard helping dad, they often learn slow, guys with training catch on lot faster.

Every once in a while we run across a self learned welder but generally would like to get someone that has had some training. If I got a kid who thought some shiny tools was some substitute for some trouble shooting logic he would be mistaken. Be even worse in a journeyman.
 

richfinn

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No, my position most peoples view of themselves and their demands are not accurate. The statistical falure rate of new generations of cheap tools is exagerated, as one guy said,,, he bought a SO breaker bar and it has lasted 40 yrs,,, probably 75 then, well I have HF breaker bar in service 20, half way there for investment of 12$ and it still works.

As for education you read that wrong, I am a proponant, I think many engineering types would be well served by a year of auto repair. As I said,, easy to tell the hand to mouth types that learned a little in the backyard helping dad, they often learn slow, guys with training catch on lot faster.

Every once in a while we run across a self learned welder but generally would like to get someone that has had some training. If I got a kid who thought some shiny tools was some substitute for some trouble shooting logic he would be mistaken. Be even worse in a journeyman.

Ok, I get your point on education a little better.

I think though that Late model passenger car engine bays need top quality tooling to produce the best repair results if your working to deadlines.
 

sberry

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My experience seems to be consistant with other reliable testimony. Recent we had a post where a guy was sure putting a hf breaker bar in the vise would break it, an opinion not on any experience or direct knowledge but juust an opinion. My own is different, I am thinking this thing works pretty good for long time for 12$ and seen some hillbillies armed with one and some stanley sockets go right to work, graceful they were not, about one step up from chimps but the stuff survived, my own experience with impact sockets seems to conincie with the concensus that the HF deep metric was junk, every other one I had worked fine.

A point to remember is that someone likely to buy some cheap stuff isnt taking 100K out of the truck mans mouth, they are spending a fraction of that.

Do I have facts to back that up? No. But I have personal expieriance and have seen it with my own eyes. I do electrical only so I am not that hard on my stuff. But I can tell you my good USA made wire cutter/crimpers work far better than the hf cutter/crimper.

I would catagorize that opinion as factual, valid, accurate and aligns with my general opinion. The pliers etc are not as good and do not last as long especially if brutalized in rugged trade service. They are not as good of a deal compared to their brand name counterparts, 8$ adjustable or number 9 linemans is not as good as a 22$ channelok but a channel is as good as a snappy at 50 or more and given the rate of use a 8 may be suffecient depending on the competitors cost.

I have a few pairs of 8$ ones,,, they are not worth 50 but they were 8 at the time.
 

Brownsfan

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No, my position most peoples view of themselves and their demands are not accurate. The statistical falure rate of new generations of cheap tools is exagerated, as one guy said,,, he bought a SO breaker bar and it has lasted 40 yrs,,, probably 75 then, well I have HF breaker bar in service 20, half way there for investment of 12$ and it still works.

As for education you read that wrong, I am a proponant, I think many engineering types would be well served by a year of auto repair. As I said,, easy to tell the hand to mouth types that learned a little in the backyard helping dad, they often learn slow, guys with training catch on lot faster.

Every once in a while we run across a self learned welder but generally would like to get someone that has had some training. If I got a kid who thought some shiny tools was some substitute for some trouble shooting logic he would be mistaken. Be even worse in a journeyman.
I broke a HF breaker bar doing lowering springs on a mustang the day I got it. Bought the cman pros and have had them for 4 years now. One of those would cost as much as a set of HF bars but if they break the day you get them how are they worth it? Factoring in time now to go back to the store to return or replace. Now if I would have bought the better ones first I would have been ahead. No one will ever convince me that those cheap tools(if they can even be called tools) is a better idea than buying quality(not always truck) tools. Buy quality and buy it once. HF stays in business because people keep coming back to replace **** with ****.
 

jbighump

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Go for it u won't get this chance again......its just money you will make more next week,,while you are at it I'll take a mg325 and a bjp1 ball joint press....thanks in advance :) :)
 
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sberry

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I am not saying a break cant happen but have used these on more than a set of Mustang springs. As for Walmart being warranted,,, who would bother with it on a socket that cost a dollar?
 
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Brownsfan

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I amnot saying a break cant happen but have used these on more than a set of Mustang springs. As for Walmart being warranted,,, who would bother with it on a socket that cost a dollar?

That's exactly how HF stays in business selling cheap tools. They figure who would bother to warranty a 2 dollar screw driver. They will just buy another for 2 dollars.
 

Armstrong1720

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As far as wal mart or what ever who wants to take the time to go hunt more junk tools ? Unless your bored after work Buy the best with what you can Yall keep it going im getting the beer and pop corn out ����
 

oilfieldtrash4

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I don't agree with buying walmart tools. I have a very impressive collection of USA made tools I've pieced together for much less than 2k and I've got 3X the tools that snap on is selling the OP. And I'm including the $350 I spent on a HF box.
For 2k you can find a retired techs box and tools, or some recent tech school grad that quit turning wrenches box and tools.
2k for that piddly little collection of tools is laughable.
 

theoldwizard1

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No. Go to Walmart and get everthing you need for 200$, take the money you may still have in hand and buy anything else you may need when you need it.

Go deluxe ! Craftsman !!

Seriously. I retired at the ripe old age of 53 by LIVING BELOW MY MEANS !
 

sberry

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That's exactly how HF stays in business selling cheap tools. They figure who would bother to warranty a 2 dollar screw driver. They will just buy another for 2 dollars.

I dont not warranty it for them but because it isnt worth it. They didnt screw me out of 2$, I have found a few that managed to survive, some lost, very few actually broke or worn out, some damaged, most well used when needed. Its really disposable cost is right, last me 2 yrs, would it have been worth 40 to last 20?

As for techs with big collections at 55,,, they didnt use all these tools from day one, at 53 still collecting. They are buying new tools till the end, never will recover it all.
 
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sberry

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I don't agree with buying walmart tools. I have a very impressive collection of USA made tools I've pieced together for much less than 2k and I've got 3X the tools that snap on is selling the OP. And I'm including the $350 I spent on a HF box.
I will agree that this is a great option. When I comment about Walmart tools I mean that in the scheme of things that if one has a need there is no reason to do without, you need to earn a buck, get to work, fix the car, tinker its right there. That Evolve stuff at Sears looks great and the price is absolutely super, fix your mower on the weekend pitch ithe tool off the dock when finished, wouldnt be out much. I dont need it but was almost compulsed to buy it as its a screaming deal.
 

dsmnickk90

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I dont not warranty it for them but because it isnt worth it. They didnt screw me out of 2$, I have found a few that managed to survive, some lost, very few actually broke or worn out, some damaged, most well used when needed. Its really disposable cost is right, last me 2 yrs, would it have been worth 40 to last 20?

As for techs with big collections at 55,,, they didnt use all these tools from day one, at 53 still collecting. They are buying new tools till the end, never will recover it all.

But by time you are on your 4th $2 screw driver you could have just spent the $8 on a Wiha or other quality brand and not worry about it instead of buy more $2 screw drivers. If you go threw 10 $2 screwdrivers in 20 years it would have been cheap just to spend the money on the $8 one upfront
 

Brownsfan

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But by time you are on your 4th $2 screw driver you could have just spent the $8 on a Wiha or other quality brand and not worry about it instead of buy more $2 screw drivers. If you go threw 10 $2 screwdrivers in 20 years it would have been cheap just to spend the money on the $8 one upfront
Exactly. If you buy quality first it WILL save you in the long run
 

KPSquared

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Everyone I know with that amount of tooling has ended up running a workshop for themselves, either as a main business or something to do after retirement.

What do you mean, "something to do after retirement"? If you're doing ANYTHING to generate an income you haven't "retired" you've just switched careers at an old age. . .

Having that kind of cash invested in tools and being able to "quit working" (not having to generate a pay check EVER again) would be a nice dream but I get the feeling most guys aren't in that boat.

The day I "retire" is the last day I ever do work for money. . .
 

richfinn

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What do you mean, "something to do after retirement"? If you're doing ANYTHING to generate an income you haven't "retired" you've just switched careers at an old age. . .

Having that kind of cash invested in tools and being able to "quit working" (not having to generate a pay check EVER again) would be a nice dream but I get the feeling most guys aren't in that boat.

The day I "retire" is the last day I ever do work for money. . .

Car restorations/Kit car builds/Running a classic car for weddings, something fun that gives the kids or grandkids a little weekend job and lets you pass on a little knowledge maybe.
 

KPSquared

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Gotcha. That makes sense. Its just that to keep those tools, they would have had to pay for themselves and unless techs are making WAY more money than I think they are, I just don't see how that's possible. . .
 

richfinn

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Gotcha. That makes sense. Its just that to keep those tools, they would have had to pay for themselves and unless techs are making WAY more money than I think they are, I just don't see how that's possible. . .

My OTE for this year is £40k (I,ll get close enough, in previous years I,ve done closer to £50k) :). I get a vehicle/tools/phone and other stuff provided through work.

I already have a personal tool kit for my own enjoyment with maybe £15k worth of decent tools which is just for my own projects etc. I reckon I might have £30k in tools when I retire (if I keep visiting this ****** site :D)
 
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