Question for you plumbers out there

[Paycheck]

My Sis and BIL are having a home built near me. Before the slab went down the boys put the pipes for the water lines in the wrong spot (only missed by 18” or so). By the original design, the pipe was supposed to come up under a stairway and below the third or fourth step. These folks put it under the first step. I’ve been watching the build (Sis is in Tampa) to see what the fix would be. I’m not real keen on what they did. They stuck in a 2x4 to push the pex lines away from the steps at a pretty nice angle. I’m not sure how sturdy pex is, but I’m concerned about the long term effects. I did get them to put in an access door behind the steps so the pipes can be reached if they do leak.
My question is whether this is ok or should I have them press for better work. Personally I would’ve had them open the slab and put the pipes in the correct spot.
I hope the pics come out for ya.







Last one is from behind and under the stairs.

 

[egdede]

It's hard to see where the pipe comes through the floor; that's one place where it might be bent too tight.

 

[Mike70]

If they won't break up the slab and move them, either put 45's on the pipes to get them away from the stairs, or remake the stairs to clear them.

 

[PWilks]

If they won't break up the slab and move them, either put 45's on the pipes to get them away from the stairs, or remake the stairs to clear them.

This is probably the best course of action. Pex is designed to be flexible. How flexible over time is a great question. Probably need a series of 45s to get out of that mess..

 

[infinkc]

I’m curious why so many pipes at that location? I can imagine that would be a pita if you ever had to service it. Should have had them fix per plan before it got too far along.

 

[MushCreek]

Using the proper fitting, PEX can bend a fairly sharp 90 degree bend, but the bracket supports it. I'd be more concerned about future service issues.

Why does it look like those stairs have a very short run, and a very high rise? They look more like a ladder than stairs.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Corner brackets for the PEX would be my preference. The metal ones are stiffer than the plastic ones.
I see they put a 90 degree fitting on at least one. That would be my second choice and only if I needed that tight of a corner.

 

[Paycheck]

I’m curious why so many pipes at that location? I can imagine that would be a pita if you ever had to service it. Should have had them fix per plan before it got too far along.

Unfortunately the house was already this far along when they found it.

Using the proper fitting, PEX can bend a fairly sharp 90 degree bend, but the bracket supports it. I'd be more concerned about future service issues.

Why does it look like those stairs have a very short run, and a very high rise? They look more like a ladder than stairs.

Staircase to second floor. Pics make it look steep.

I’ll see if I can get better pics.

 

[rlitman]

...push the pex lines away from the steps at a pretty nice angle. I’m not sure how sturdy pex is, but I’m concerned about the long term effects...

PEX is regularly bent into all sorts of shapes. If they didn't kink it, you have nothing to worry about. Adding extra angle fittings is a terrible idea BTW with PEX. You are almost always better off bending it.

 

[59 wagon man]

i nwould put some insulation maybe 1" thick wall to keep it from rubbing steps and forget about it. It happens all the time on new homes.

 

[nafterclifen]

It happens all the time on new homes.

"Happens all the time" doesn't mean it's right or that there won't be any issues. I hate that saying. But it is what it is at this point. Only way to do it the way you want it done is to do it yourself.

 

[59 wagon man]

i didn't say it was right but i fought that battle 20 yrs ago when i moved to fla and my first job offer was proceeded with- i don't care what you know everything is precut, numbered, and a picture of what goes where. we only do 5 or 6 models of new homes throughout the state and within 6 months the 2 guys off the boat will out produce you. so that is what you get

 

[BD1]

Hopefully nails missed pex.


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[Paycheck]

Hopefully nails missed pex.


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My biggest concern. I’ll see if I can stick some foam in there before they close it up.

 

[BD1]

My biggest concern. I’ll see if I can stick some foam in there before they close it up.

Standard procedure is air test.


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[K'ledgeBldr]

The last thing you want to do is add more fittings. Every extra fitting adds one more possible leak point. That is one of the major benefits of PEX- two connections; one at the source- one at the supply point.

In the pics it looks like there's already a half dozen fittings in there! Any service at the point of where the lines come through the slab would most likely have to be by removing the starter tread; and/or the riser.

 

[paredown]

Not a plumber, but have worked as a project lead. This kind of half-assed stuff is the most annoying thing in construction--because you know at some point some poor schmuck is going to have to work on that, and the stairs will have to be destroyed.

My favorite builder had a saying--the measure of your professionalism is your willingness to do it over again if it is not right.

That should have been moved and dealt with before the geniuses put the stairs over top. And **** like that is why most people should never act as their own GCs--it should have been caught as soon as the guys started laying out the stairs, and fixed.

No one likes doing stuff over--but the good guys do it all the time because they are professional and care.

 

[egdinger]

Not a plumber, but all pex specifies a minimum bend radius, if the bends are smaller than that bad news. I just got done using some pex from Apollo who state the minimum ben radius is 6x diameter. Not sure which brand of pex that is, but google brand installation guide and search for minimum bend radius in there.

 

[johnnyradiant]

6X dia is shared by others for radii. Is all the bend above the surface or did they start the bend below grade as they placed the slab? I'd be a little more concerned if they did their bend during the pour 'cause with the added weight of the concrete as they were working with it could have made the bend tighter than they realized. I would be most concerned with rubbing noise with all those pipes tight against the tread. A lot of potential there for never ending ticking noises with all the pipes up tight against the tread and each other. Care in properly isolating them would need to occur. Adding a corner support for each pipe may work. You may get some added relief, without any detriment to the overall job if you chipped away some of the concrete on the inside of the bend around each pipe it the bend is only starting above the slab. To me it doesn't look bad enough to have to do it all again because I'm not sure it would be anywhere near warranted to rip out everything to put new pex and concrete in. If the radius iis a little too tight there is a final pipe option of cutting it and putting an elbow on it, but make sure it is cut as high above the surface as possible. There is also the possibility of redesigning the steps to have a little more run on each tread so that the pipes come up under the second tread as opposed to the first, or adding a landing and turn for the last couple steps. Not sure if the rest of the room limits stair alteration but adjusting the overall run by maybe 8" might give you all the clearance needed to make the pipe issue disappear.

 

[Daedalus]

They could have easily beveled that 2x4 to give a little more radius to the bends. I would put a leak detector under there.

 

[thunderalley3]

First thing is do not touch it or attempt to fix it yourself. Great ideas of adding some foam or chipping away some concrete but the minute you do that you will now be the reason for the leak if it ever occurs and they will put the blame on "your" unapproved modification.

Now is the time to fix it, make them pull the treads out and "fix" it how it should have been. It is on them, not you at this point. Everyone on the job site will minimize the issues as they only care about finishing the home and moving on to the next one. being that it is under stairs cut it out and do it correctly. Those pictures would be going to the home-builder who is probably unaware that this problem happened.

If it is left as is there could be issues down the road, there is a leak, house floods, insurance investigates, house not built to spec. There was a reason the lines were specified to be 18 inches under the steps, make them do it or they will be laughing over beers going "I am glad that is not mine."

 

[Jinks]

Stairs are expensive. Plumbing is expensive. NEVER put the two together. If your family is planning on selling that house within 10 years it might be worth risking. Of course that means they have to live with the knowledge they left a trap for some future family.

I've owned two houses in Florida for over 20 years each. Plumbing leaks. Sometimes below the slab. Being able to open a slab & repair the leak isn't too big a deal. Tearing out a stairway, & loosing access to your second floor makes it a bigger, more expensive problem. Correcting it now will make life easier....for someone.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

That should have been moved and dealt with before the geniuses put the stairs in...it should have been caught as soon as the guys started laying out the stairs, and fixed.

Actually; it should have been caught and handled BEFORE the concrete showed up.

 

[Paycheck]

Actually; it should have been caught and handled BEFORE the concrete showed up.

Yup!
Spec house in a subdivision. Build 'em quick and run! And this is supposed to be one of the better builders.

 

[paredown]

Actually; it should have been caught and handled BEFORE the concrete showed up.

Agreed--but stuff happens. We've had stub outs in the wrong place--someone changes a wall location, or there's two sets of plans etc. Show me someone who has never had to move something after the concrete, I'll show you a real pro with a long streak of good luck!

Best to not make mistakes, second best, fix them before they become a problem for the next guy who has to work on the place.

 

[dfiler2]

If there is room, why not move the stairs 10-12", it would be a little bigger landing at the top and a little less room at the bottom but at this point it would be pretty easy to do.

 

[Mercury man]

I am a plumber in Florida with 30 years experience that's horrible I would have never done it like that

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The stairs themselves don't look right, either.

Tommy

 

[The Cobbler]

The stairs themselves don't look right, either.

Tommy

Im in that camp too, but it was stated they are fine, the picture makes them look wrong.

 

[59 wagon man]

because pex is so flexible it vibrates and jumps when a solenoid or faucet is shut off. you need to stop the pipe from rubbing using either insulation or 3/4" or 1" poly pipe slit down the middle and wrapped around the pipe

 

[infinkc]

can they chip away at the concrete around the hoses, so the bend it not right at the surface, but lower, that should help take some strain off.

 

[Milton Shaw]

That is not as bad as the house across the street from me. The plumber plumbed the supply lines with the blue print upside down. The icemaker supply line ended up stubbed out in the middle of the living room. All the other lines could be run thru studs to where they needed to be. The electrician ran his ground wire to the regulator that was plumbed totally with PEX. Lots of good that ground would be. They also had to cut the garage door tracks to open the access door to the HVAC
Even that is not as bad as a house in the subdivision my daughter lives in. The plumber watched the slab rough in until midnight and left. The concrete showed up and was finished by 8 the next morning. Somebody has stolen all the copper between midnight at 6. It was a big mess of course.

 

[paredown]

That is not as bad as the house across the street from me. The plumber plumbed the supply lines with the blue print upside down. The icemaker supply line ended up stubbed out in the middle of the living room. All the other lines could be run thru studs to where they needed to be. The electrician ran his ground wire to the regulator that was plumbed totally with PEX. Lots of good that ground would be. They also had to cut the garage door tracks to open the access door to the HVAC
Even that is not as bad as a house in the subdivision my daughter lives in. The plumber watched the slab rough in until midnight and left. The concrete showed up and was finished by 8 the next morning. Somebody has stolen all the copper between midnight at 6. It was a big mess of course.

Yikes--copper thieves are the worst. Our new Habitat project is going to be harder because someone broke in and stole $50 worth of copper, and smashed everything up to get it.

Around here (NY) code requires external grounding wire to grounding rod for main panel--you can no longer ground to water service for reasons like you mention.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Around here (NY) code requires external grounding wire to grounding rod for main panel--you can no longer ground to water service for reasons like you mention.

We don't even use grounding rods here- we use rebar that's in the foundation. One full piece is secured to the footing forms above finished top; and its tied to at least two other pieces within the footing.

The location of the exposed rebar is within a couple of feet of the breaker panel location.

 

[Daedalus]

We don't even use grounding rods here- we use rebar that's in the foundation. One full piece is secured to the footing forms above finished top; and its tied to at least two other pieces within the footing.

The location of the exposed rebar is within a couple of feet of the breaker panel location.

I don't get it. How is the rebar grounded? Are there pieces of rebar sunk into the ground?

 

[rlitman]

I don't get it. How is the rebar grounded? Are there pieces of rebar sunk into the ground?

No, sunk into the concrete. Look up UFER ground.

 

[Daedalus]

The things I learn on GJ. I would have bet good money that concrete was closer to plastic than soil as a conductor.

He had determined that concrete was more conductive than all but the best soil

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/UferGroundNewLook~20031001.htm

 

[rlitman]

The things I learn on GJ. I would have bet good money that concrete was closer to plastic than soil as a conductor.

He had determined that concrete was more conductive than all but the best soil

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/UferGroundNewLook~20031001.htm

Soil is far from a great conductor, but it works because of its enormous area. Have you ever noticed that there is always a concrete pad around the pumps at gas stations, even when most of the pavement is asphalt. That's in part because concrete reduces the chance of static buildup.

 

[Paycheck]

Pulled the bottom step up. Plumber must’ve been Italian. Sure looks like spaghetti.
Builders going to see about making adjustments. I. Would like to move the stairs, they’re worried about costs. We’ll see.

 

[rlitman]

Pulled the bottom step up. Plumber must’ve been Italian. Sure looks like spaghetti.
Builders going to see about making adjustments. I. Would like to move the stairs, they’re worried about costs. We’ll see.

WTF is with those elbows? ALL of those lines could easily have been curved out of there. Elbows in PEX are major flow restrictions that are easily avoided.