Question. Home backup with hondas

[Garageguy65]

Hi guys. Just want some confirmation on my setup here..

Looking at a pair of honda eu2000i generators. Rated at 1600 watt running/2000 watt surge. So paired up 3200/4000

I am looking at a emergency home backup power system for my house. I want this to be quiet and portable and easy to set up if need be by the wife..

I was looking at a honda eu3000i. Decided it was too big and bulky for the wife to handle plus portability is a issue.

I want the setup Portable, so if we want to take one camping we can with ease..

My home panel setup. 200 amp service
Square d "qo" 40 slot panel with a square d interlock panel. This is not my panel but identical of how the generator interlock is set up.

I have like 25 breakers.

Each 110v line has it's own breaker.. Nothing doubled.

Outside is a Reliance nema l14-30 plug that runs to a 30amp double pole breaker inside the panel that should run both legs of the panel. Wire size I don't recall.

The panel. My electrician friend with 30 years experience "helped" and "coached". Me install the panel. It was inspected by the county.. Inspection came out a+

Running the generators i will be shutting off all 220v breakers.

I also have natural gas (natural draft vent) for a water heater. So generator power doesn't come into play

I made. List of what I have to run in my house. The lighting is all switched to led 100% tested with a reliance watt meter.

Freezer (brand new) at idle 7w. Compressor kicks on the meter goes to 130. I kicked the coldness up from 3 to 7 on the dial. I got a reading of 800 watts.


Fridge (15 yrs old) running 300 watt. Surge 1400

Entertainment center ( router, tv, wifi, modem, cable modem) pulls 250w

Gas insert blower motor 111w

Furnace (1/3 hp) best guess. 700w / 1400 surge

Led light bulbs. (Kitchen, two bathrooms, two levels of my house, and a bedroom )
At worse case all on at the same time. More than likely they won't be.
Total led up runs 235 watts. That's worse case. More likely there would be two light on each level at a time (18watts)

I didn't take into effect anything plugged in (alarm clocks ect) as the draw would be so small)


If I ran a microwave 1000watt. The microwave would be the only item running at that time. All other breakers would be off...

So total added wattage is 1700-2300 watts (rough estimate)
Highest additional surge wattage is 1400 watts (with a fridge or furnace starting)

Total starting watts in my estimation would be 3100-3400

The paired Hondas would surge at 4000 watt and run at 3600 watt max..

The way I am seeing this is I could run my house minus all my 220v appliances on a pair of honda eu2000i generators?

I could also unplug a freezer or fridge and cycle between the two being plugged in to run if this is overtaxing

Does this look right?

Thanks guys

 

[p_mori7]

Do you have a sump pump to also think about ?

I do exactly like you, switch off all 240v, and run everything 120v normally...but I have a 5000w run 6500w surge generator. I have a sump pump, and when we typically have outages, that's also the time the pump runs a lot.

 

[Garageguy65]

Do you have a sump pump to also think about ?

I do exactly like you, switch off all 240v, and run everything 120v normally...but I have a 5000w run 6500w surge generator. I have a sump pump, and when we typically have outages, that's also the time the pump runs a lot.

No well pumps or sump pumps.. Forgot to mention that.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Looking at a pair of honda eu2000i generators. Rated at 1600 watt running/2000 watt surge. So paired up 3200/4000
.
.
.
Does this look right?

A pair of EU2000i are pretty pricey ! More than an EU3000, which the way I would go. If you only run ONE of the following at a time, you probably can squeak by on 1 EU2000i.

• Microwave
• Refrigerator
• Freezer

(If you keep the freezer door closed, th contents should be good for 12+ hours.)

Both solutions are 120V only, so they will only put power on every other breaker so you may have to move some loads around.

Other than that, you are god to go !

 

[Garageguy65]

A pair of EU2000i are pretty pricey ! More than an EU3000, which the way I would go. If you only run ONE of the following at a time, you probably can squeak by on 1 EU2000i.

• Microwave
• Refrigerator
• Freezer

(If you keep the freezer door closed, th contents should be good for 12+ hours.)

Both solutions are 120V only, so they will only put power on every other breaker so you may have to move some loads around.

Other than that, you are god to go !

Was at the honda dealer yesterday and also Home Depot.

The price of a eu2000 is $999. (Honda companion 2000 $1098.. Has a 30 twist lock plug built into it) X2 = $1998 Found one used mint condition for $750
The price of a eu3000 is $1999

Wattage on the pair of 2000's is 3200 surge 4000
Wattage on the eu3000 is 2800 surge 3000

Honda sells a parallel kit to link the 2000's together. Or you can buy a honda 2000 and a 2000 companion (the companion has a 30 amp twist lock plug)

Either way you go a companion or a parallel kit both options have a cord that plugs into the nema l14-30 plug on the house.

If I am correct . The double pole 30amp generator breaker should supply only 110v to both legs of the electrical box. The 30 amp breaker has a red and black wire feeding to the breaker from the nema plug. Neutral and ground goes to the respective spots on the panel.

I should be able to power both sides of my box on 110 with the Hondas paired up.

 

[kd3pc]

two things about the honda eu2000....

the first is they are inverter style generators and are not great with initial high/inductive loads. We use ours on the boat and although rated to run the AC system, there is not enough "instant load" power to handle the AC. You can add quick start capacitors or sequencers to start the various AC subsystems individually and give the honda a chance to catch up. So check out your loads carefully.

You can make a parallel cable with information from the web. If you use the cable, there is a derate of the power....not really 30 Amps

Hope this helps..

 

[1969]

Subscribed for later.

 

[mshell56118]

you would want to shut the idle function off on teh units and allow them to run full speed the whole time to help with large load swings. Also I would go with 2 units and the parallel kit as then you can use one somewhere else if needed as with the companion unit it will not work alone

 

[theoldwizard1]

If I am correct . The double pole 30amp generator breaker should supply only 110v to both legs of the electrical box.

NOPE ! Adding the second generator only increase the current available.



Note the receptacle is a 3 prong twist lock, making it a NEMA L5-30, 120V@30A. Hot, neutral and ground.

From here

The EU2000i Companion offers one 30A receptacle for RV applications (requires optional adaptor) and one 20A receptacle. The 30A receptacle allows 2 EU2000i models to be run in parallel by way of a simple parallel cord and not an external parallel kit.

Not sure why Honda put a L5-30 on it when RV/TT requiring more than 15-20A use a NEMA TT-30 or 14-50.


Even the EU3000 only has 120V out !

You typically need at LEAST a 3500/4000 watt generator to get 240V.

 

[Garageguy65]

I read you above post wiz.. About 2am it hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was trying to figure out why I had to move loads around and this setup wouldn't work between the Hondas and my transfer box...

When we wired the transfer system up we wired it to run off a 220v 5000 w genny not two Hondas that were 110v!
So...

The power coming from the paired Hondas was a hot neutral and ground l5-30 plug
Black/white/green

The power going into the nema l14-30 plug is TWO hots a neutral and ground
Black/red/white/green

Even thou the power at the house has two hots feeding the generator breaker inside the house. The Hondas only supply one hot going out..

So to power both legs on the panel I am missing one hot wire from the genny.

A genny that's 110v =one hot. 220v =two hots.

I'm calling it a brain fart..

Follow me here... It is established I won't be running 240 appliances.

So you said the pair of Hondas 2000 would run the house on 110v onlyand I would be good to go (by moving loads/breakers around). Check..

I have to get the one hot wire from the genny to the two legs into the panelvia the l14-30 plug on the house.

I found two options

Option 1: build a cord with a l5-30 plug to plug into the genny, the other end of the extension cord would plug into the l14-30 on the house. To supply the hot to both sides of the l14 -30 extension cord plug, a short jumper wire would connect x and y on the l14-30 "generator extension cord plug"
(Picture of cord and jumper at the bottom of the post)


Or option two

Would this cord work? Same thing as option one but premade.
https://amzn.com/B0050PQ0UO

What do you think?? Any hazards??

I want to be safe about this..

If all the 220v breakers were off on the panel that amazon cord would supply 110 to both sides of the legs in the panel.

Any chance of overloading anything? Would this work?

Thank you all for the help so far. It is appreciated much

This place is awesome

I read this thread last nigh also. It explained a lot and backed what my brain was thinking. Looks like the op on that thread was trying to do what I am but with one honda vs 2..

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28970280-Electrical-RESOLVED-Generator-Wiring-Question-120v-Genny-to-240v-Panel

Thinking further . The ideal setup would be a honda eu7000 that's 220v. But $4000
Or a generac guardian home backup 11000 watt. Those run about $2000-$2500 plus install, plus running the natural gas line.

But then they are not very portable.. So prefer the two Hondas

If the above setup works and will power the basics, fridge, freezer, tv, heat, and lights.. I will be ok with it.. It's for emergency use..not like I'm living off generator power..

We had a windstorm roll thru here a year ago November. Killed power for 11 days... Not a fun time. That's is what the intention is for here.

 

[Falcon67]

Things would be simpler and easier to keep up with by using a straight 5500 or 6500 unit with a 240V output. One plug, one cord, hook up, start, done. Yes, they are expensive. The Honda is pretty quiet for the money. If you don't care about quiet so much, there are other gens that will work at around 74 dB noise level. Our 3500 Champion will run our 20A trailer AC unit and the 700w microwave, but just that. We just ran it for three days straight. Here, we may go to a 5500 Champ - if we do, I'll put in a transfer and if we need emergency power the neighbors will just have to deal with it.

Ps, our 3500 weighs 140 lbs and my wife can load it (wheels) in and out of the race trailer easily.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A genny that's 110v =one hot. 220v =two hots.

Some people around hrere get there "shorts in a bundle" when you say 110V when it is typically closer to 120V and usually referred to that way.

Option 1: build a cord with a l5-30 plug to plug into the genny, the other end of the extension cord would plug into the l14-30 on the house. To supply the hot to both sides of the l14 -30 extension cord plug, a short jumper wire would connect x and y on the l14-30 "generator extension cord plug"
(Picture of cord and jumper at the bottom of the post)

Or option two:Would this cord work? Same thing as option one but premade.
https://amzn.com/B0050PQ0UO

What do you think?? Any hazards??

Again, we need to remind everyone that you have a generator interlock that disconnects your feed from the power lines when ever you are using the generator.

Option #1 and #2 are the same.

I want to be safe about this..

If all the 220v breakers were off on the panel that amazon cord would supply 110 to both sides of the legs in the panel.

Any chance of overloading anything? Would this work?

Well, I did not see a UL sticker on the cord, but my totally unprofessional opinion is that it is safe. Even if you did turn on a 240V load, nothing "bad" would happen.

Yes, you can overload this setup, but that is why there are circuit breakers on the generator !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Some electronic devices (like modern furnaces) will not operate with a "non-bonded" generator. The simple solution is a bonding plug (jumper from neutral to ground).

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . just saw TV advertisement that Generac makes model IQ2000 to compete with Honda EU2000. Claim the Generac is easier to run 2 gensets parallel (single "ambilical" cord) and have nice feature of digital readout of power demand, and remaining runtime. Also claim it handles over demand better.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...ontent=51085&gclid=CKajoKHis88CFZGMaQodKQYJbw

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are several companies making functional equivalents of the EU2000. Yamaha, Champion and others. I am not knocking the EU2000, but many RVers have found it just does not have enough power for some A/C units and are moving up either to the EU3000 or Yamaha EF2400i (or EF2800i or EF3000i) or Champion 3100w (or 3400W).

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are several (IMHO overpriced) EU2000i "extended run"/auxiliary fuel tank kits available on eBay. These are very easy to make.

• Buy a genuine Honda EU2000i fuel cap.
• Remove vent a drill a hole for a 1/4" air quick connect stud. Insert stud and seal well.
• Put a 1/4" thread to barb adapter on some 1/4" fuel line. Install a 1/4" air quick coupler.
• Install a 1/4" bulkhead adapter through a disc cut to fit in the nut of a plastic gas tank.
• Add a flexible piece of tubing with a weight (so that it sits on the bottom) on the opposite side of the disc.

Make sure you start the generator with a full fuel tank and that the new fuel cap fits well (it must be air tight). As the fuel level goes down in the generator, vacuum will draw fuel from the remote tank. Yes, you can swap in a new remote tank without stopping the generator.

 

[matt_i]

In the name of simplicity I'd stick with one generator and not have to rely on the synchronizer to get small units to react in parallel to loads properly. The synchro is going to be something that, if it fails, could really put you in a bind at a time when you are already nearly overloaded with other problems.

If a single generator is too big, find a way to put it on large wheels, like those superfat bike wheels to make it easy to roll, or a longer cord, etc. Use creativity to solve those issues is my free advice.

 

[finn]

In the name of simplicity I'd stick with one generator and not have to rely on the synchronizer to get small units to react in parallel to loads properly. The synchro is going to be something that, if it fails, could really put you in a bind at a time when you are already nearly overloaded with other problems.

If a single generator is too big, find a way to put it on large wheels, like those superfat bike wheels to make it easy to roll, or a longer cord, etc. Use creativity to solve those issues is my free advice.

The companion kits are simple, so I wouldn't worry about complexity. I bought 2 2000 watt Champion inverters and the connection kit at Menard for less than $950 total to use in my fifth wheel and emergency use at home. Cheap and relatively quiet.

The bigger problem with this approach is that the well pump requires 240 volts, which the small inverters are incapable of providing.

 

[Mike in NJ]

There are several (IMHO overpriced) EU2000i "extended run"/auxiliary fuel tank kits available on eBay. These are very easy to make.

• Buy a genuine Honda EU2000i fuel cap.
• Remove vent a drill a hole for a 1/4" air quick connect stud. Insert stud and seal well.
• Put a 1/4" thread to barb adapter on some 1/4" fuel line. Install a 1/4" air quick coupler.
• Install a 1/4" bulkhead adapter through a disc cut to fit in the nut of a plastic gas tank.
• Add a flexible piece of tubing with a weight (so that it sits on the bottom) on the opposite side of the disc.

Make sure you start the generator with a full fuel tank and that the new fuel cap fits well (it must be air tight). As the fuel level goes down in the generator, vacuum will draw fuel from the remote tank. Yes, you can swap in a new remote tank without stopping the generator.

Fuel and run time are really important to think about. During Hurricane Sandy, a giant chunk of the state lost power for over a week - much longer than that in some areas. Gas stations ran out of gas a few days into the event.

I was thrilled that I spent all of the money I did on the EU2000. It sipped fuel, and with the marine outboard extended tank I had running through the fuel cap as described above it would run several days in eco mode without refueling -- or a VERY long time if I was only running it periodically.

These generators are very expensive. But they are capable of using a lot less fuel than non-invertor generators, and that can be really helpful when fuel becomes scarce.

Mike

 

[1233user]

Some electronic devices (like modern furnaces) will not operate with a "non-bonded" generator. The simple solution is a bonding plug (jumper from neutral to ground).

Since he is planning to run this through his main panel which is bonded, that shouldn't be an issue in his case.

 

[1233user]

I read you above post wiz.. About 2am it hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was trying to figure out why I had to move loads around and this setup wouldn't work between the Hondas and my transfer box...

When we wired the transfer system up we wired it to run off a 220v 5000 w genny not two Hondas that were 110v!
So...

The power coming from the paired Hondas was a hot neutral and ground l5-30 plug
Black/white/green

The power going into the nema l14-30 plug is TWO hots a neutral and ground
Black/red/white/green

Even thou the power at the house has two hots feeding the generator breaker inside the house. The Hondas only supply one hot going out..

So to power both legs on the panel I am missing one hot wire from the genny.

A genny that's 110v =one hot. 220v =two hots.

I'm calling it a brain fart..

Follow me here... It is established I won't be running 240 appliances.

So you said the pair of Hondas 2000 would run the house on 110v onlyand I would be good to go (by moving loads/breakers around). Check..

I have to get the one hot wire from the genny to the two legs into the panelvia the l14-30 plug on the house.

I found two options

Option 1: build a cord with a l5-30 plug to plug into the genny, the other end of the extension cord would plug into the l14-30 on the house. To supply the hot to both sides of the l14 -30 extension cord plug, a short jumper wire would connect x and y on the l14-30 "generator extension cord plug"
(Picture of cord and jumper at the bottom of the post)


Or option two

Would this cord work? Same thing as option one but premade.
https://amzn.com/B0050PQ0UO

What do you think?? Any hazards??

I want to be safe about this..

If all the 220v breakers were off on the panel that amazon cord would supply 110 to both sides of the legs in the panel.

Any chance of overloading anything? Would this work?

Thank you all for the help so far. It is appreciated much

This place is awesome

I read this thread last nigh also. It explained a lot and backed what my brain was thinking. Looks like the op on that thread was trying to do what I am but with one honda vs 2..

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28970280-Electrical-RESOLVED-Generator-Wiring-Question-120v-Genny-to-240v-Panel

Thinking further . The ideal setup would be a honda eu7000 that's 220v. But $4000
Or a generac guardian home backup 11000 watt. Those run about $2000-$2500 plus install, plus running the natural gas line.

But then they are not very portable.. So prefer the two Hondas

If the above setup works and will power the basics, fridge, freezer, tv, heat, and lights.. I will be ok with it.. It's for emergency use..not like I'm living off generator power..

We had a windstorm roll thru here a year ago November. Killed power for 11 days... Not a fun time. That's is what the intention is for here.

I have the exact setup that you are trying to put together (1 Honda eu2000, and 1 eu2000 Companion). I made my adapter plug setup from a 4 wire #10 cord. On the generator side I have 2 of the wires attached to the hot lug, that powers both sides of the breaker in the panel. Just make sure that you shut off all your 220 breakers when you use the generators.

 

[ishiboo]

Yes, the panel must be bonded there or upstream, so there is no need for a "bonding plug". Yes, you can power both legs with your cord idea. 240v appliances would see 120v-120v=0V so it would be perfectly fine to even leave the breakers on, nothing would happen. The only thing is things like an electric stove which may have a 120v clock/timer/etc., that function would still work. Maybe that's not a bad thing This is assuming there are no MWBCs... in theory you could double the rated current on the neutral, so those would need to be shut off.

The EU-series are AWESOME but just about the most expensive way to produce backup power. Only go this route if you truly need QUIET backup power. You could probably find a used MQ Whisperwatt 7KW for less than the Honda setup.

 

[ishiboo]

In the name of simplicity I'd stick with one generator and not have to rely on the synchronizer to get small units to react in parallel to loads properly. The synchro is going to be something that, if it fails, could really put you in a bind at a time when you are already nearly overloaded with other problems.

If a single generator is too big, find a way to put it on large wheels, like those superfat bike wheels to make it easy to roll, or a longer cord, etc. Use creativity to solve those issues is my free advice.

A synchronizer's job is only to get the waveforms in sync prior to connecting two or more mechanical generators. Once they are connected, it essentially does nothing, because they are coupled electrically they stay in sync unless something goes wrong.

The EU-series are inverter generators, not mechanical... so their waveform is generated independent of engine speed and there is no "synchronization" required in that sense. So there's not a discrete synchronizer to go bad, and if the waveform circuit went bad there would be no output anyway or the output wouldn't be usable.

So, while I don't think this a great setup for backup power, I wouldn't be worried about that aspect.

 

[ishiboo]

OP . . . . just saw TV advertisement that Generac makes model IQ2000 to compete with Honda EU2000. Claim the Generac is easier to run 2 gensets parallel (single "ambilical" cord) and have nice feature of digital readout of power demand, and remaining runtime. Also claim it handles over demand better.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...ontent=51085&gclid=CKajoKHis88CFZGMaQodKQYJbw

Champion does as well as probably a few others. Briggs makes 3kw and 2kw units that can be combined (and you can link a 3kw with a 2kw):

https://www.menards.com/main/electr...70904055-c-10107.htm?tid=-7381555369834044043

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If I am correct . The double pole 30amp generator breaker should supply only 110v to both legs of the electrical box. The 30 amp breaker has a red and black wire feeding to the breaker from the nema plug. Neutral and ground goes to the respective spots on the panel.

I should be able to power both sides of my box on 110 with the Hondas paired up.

NOPE ! Adding the second generator only increase the current available.



Note the receptacle is a 3 prong twist lock, making it a NEMA L5-30, 120V@30A. Hot, neutral and ground.

From here



Not sure why Honda put a L5-30 on it when RV/TT requiring more than 15-20A use a NEMA TT-30 or 14-50.


Even the EU3000 only has 120V out !

You typically need at LEAST a 3500/4000 watt generator to get 240V.

You beat me to it, Wiz! I was wondering when someone would point that out...

Tommy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Some electronic devices (like modern furnaces) will not operate with a "non-bonded" generator. The simple solution is a bonding plug (jumper from neutral to ground).

Hold on a minute.

Most portable generators are already bonded.

But u dont want to have a bond in 2 places and since the OP has the interlock on his main service panel, where there is already a neutral to ground bond, he needs to remove the bond on the generator.

The bonding plug u posted can be used when the OP uses the generator as a stand alone unit for camping or whatever, that way he doesnt have to take the generator apart to redo the bonding when used as a portable and then take it apart again to remove the bonding when he hooks it up to his house.

NEVER have bonding in 2 places on the same service.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The companion kits are simple, so I wouldn't worry about complexity. I bought 2 2000 watt Champion inverters and the connection kit at Menard for less than $950 total to use in my fifth wheel and emergency use at home. Cheap and relatively quiet.

The bigger problem with this approach is that the well pump requires 240 volts, which the small inverters are incapable of providing.

OP does NOT have a well pump or any 240v loads for that matter that need to be ran during an outage...

 

[theoldwizard1]

Most portable generators are already bonded.

That statement USED to be true. A lot of them now a days are not bond.

The bonding plug u posted can be used when the OP uses the generator as a stand alone unit for camping or whatever, that way he doesnt have to take the generator apart to redo the bonding when used as a portable and then take it apart again to remove the bonding when he hooks it up to his house.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !

I forgot that with a generator interlock, turning off the main leaves the neutral bonded to the ground inside the load center.

No bonding plug required.


If, during an emergency, you temporarily hook up a plug to your furnace lead, and then plug THAT into your un-bonded generator your furnace may not work !

Thanks for catching my error Wylie !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The most important thing here is that the OP makes sure that the generator doesnt have a neutral to ground bond.

 

[ishiboo]

The most important thing here is that the OP makes sure that the generator doesnt have a neutral to ground bond.

If the Honda is listed which I'm sure it is, it won't have one. It is under 5kw and does not have a GFCI.

 

[Mr.Brown125]

There are several companies making functional equivalents of the EU2000. Yamaha, Champion and others. I am not knocking the EU2000, but many RVers have found it just does not have enough power for some A/C units and are moving up either to the EU3000 or Yamaha EF2400i (or EF2800i or EF3000i) or Champion 3100w (or 3400W).

Buddy, what about Champion 76533 3800W?

Idk what did you use but we like it, cause we living in Kyle Canyon summer home area, so we need powerful, durable machine cause of climate, rocks, storms we sometimes have problems with electricity!

Pluses: large volume of the tank(3.4 gal); big power (Gasoline: 3800W / 4750W,Propane: 3420W / 4275W); wheels; dual fuel; free shipping; low price

Cons: high noise level om maximum load; heavy weight(119 lbs)

I advice you to look through this generator guide

 

[EOC_Jason]

One thing nobody mentioned, but you did test loads for... Is see which large load is on which leg in your panel to keep things balanced...

i.e. your furnace blower on one 120v leg, and your refrigerator on the other... If they are on the same then they could end up tripping the breaker on the generator.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If the Honda is listed which I'm sure it is, it won't have one. It is under 5kw and does not have a GFCI.

Why is that?

most portables DO in fact have neutral to ground bonding due to the fact that their primary intended use is for portable power.