Question on Cooper GFCI outlets

[green.bubbly]

I just finished installing two Cooper VGF20W GFCI receptacles along with all the other receptacles. Before I buttoned everything up, I took out my meter and was checking for open circuits and shorts.
On the GFCI receptacles, does power have to be applied to read continuity between the line side and the load side?

Between the two hot screws, I have no continuity.

Between the two neutral screws, I have no continuity.

Between the contact inside the device and its screw, I have no continuity.

I am assuming that the receptacle is tripped and requires power to reset it? Pushing in the reset button does nothing. No click and no continuity.

 

[Alchymist]

Just power it up and reset it.....if there's a short, the breaker will kick off. If there's an open, it wont reset.

Might want to pick up one of these ---
http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=B0UsTsnTN4qSgQe-y6iRCw&ved=0CEAQ8gIwAw

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Most GFCI's come "tripped" from the factory, and again, most, will not reset unless there is power present. I have some older ones that will, and newer ones that will not reset without power.

Charles

 

[mrb]

new ones will not reset without power. it was a change to the UL standard in (i think) 2003

 

[green.bubbly]

Well, first power up attempt failed. I wanted to test all the circuits before closing all my walls up. I tried attaching an extension cord to the 2 gauge copper wires that run from my garage to the inside of my house. I connected the neutral and ground to the extension neutral and ground. The hot from the extension cord was connected to the two hot legs going to my garage subpanel. I have a 220 breaker but I left it turned off.

At some point between plugging the extension cord in and turning on three breakers, something tripped the 15A GFCI breaker that I plugged the extension cord into. A huge saddness fell over me. I was really hoping I could have buttoned the walls up next weekend but now I have to do some troubleshooting.

All I know at this point is that there was no continuity between the ground, neutral and hots in my subpanel. But that was with the GFCI receptacles tripped.

 

[Alchymist]

I think you are causing yourself a lot of work with all the "testing". Turn all the breakers including the main in your garage panel off. Turn on the feed breaker in the main panel. If it doesn't pop, good. Next check at the garage panel at the incoming line lugs - 120 v each line to neutral, 240 v line to line.

If all good, turn on main garage breaker. If that goes ok, turn on the individual breakers one by one. When all breakers are on, check each outlet for power and correct wiring. This is where the $5 checker I mentioned earlier comes in handy.

If at any time a breaker pops, chase down that circuit and correct the problem.

 

[Teken]

You do measure 120 line voltage going into the GFCI though right, when powered up?

 

[rockchucker]

new ones will not reset without power. it was a change to the UL standard in (i think) 2003

100%

I think you are causing yourself a lot of work with all the "testing". Turn all the breakers including the main in your garage panel off. Turn on the feed breaker in the main panel. If it doesn't pop, good. Next check at the garage panel at the incoming line lugs - 120 v each line to neutral, 240 v line to line.

If all good, turn on main garage breaker. If that goes ok, turn on the individual breakers one by one. When all breakers are on, check each outlet for power and correct wiring. This is where the $5 checker I mentioned earlier comes in handy.

If at any time a breaker pops, chase down that circuit and correct the problem.

1 billion %


With GFCI's there is not really any need to test for continuity. Power it up and see if you can test and reset the GFI. If no Breakers trip then you are golden.

 

[green.bubbly]

I think you are causing yourself a lot of work with all the "testing". Turn all the breakers including the main in your garage panel off. Turn on the feed breaker in the main panel. If it doesn't pop, good. Next check at the garage panel at the incoming line lugs - 120 v each line to neutral, 240 v line to line.

If all good, turn on main garage breaker. If that goes ok, turn on the individual breakers one by one. When all breakers are on, check each outlet for power and correct wiring. This is where the $5 checker I mentioned earlier comes in handy.

If at any time a breaker pops, chase down that circuit and correct the problem.

That is basically what I am trying to do except I do not have a feed breaker in my house yet. I do not even have a main panel in my house yet which is why I tried connecting an extension cord to the garage panel feed wires. (I will run a temporary line to my temp pole next weekend).

After connecting the extension cord and flipping the breakers on, none of them tripped but at some point, the GFCI breaker that my extension was plugged into tripped. I did not try reading any voltages until after I turned all the breakers on. That was when I realized the source breaker had tripped.

That was the end of my day and I did not do any other troubleshooting yet. During the week, I will connect power with breakers off and see if I have power to the subpanel. From there, I will turn on one breaker at a time and see when I lose power.

I do have one of those circuit checkers at my office. I will grab it and use it after I get the power flowing.

 

[mrb]

how many feet of wire do you have between the GFCI and your shop panel?

how do you have the ext cord connected to the #2?

Has this ext cord with the end cut off ever gotten wet?

 

[green.bubbly]

how many feet of wire do you have between the GFCI and your shop panel?

how do you have the ext cord connected to the #2?

Has this ext cord with the end cut off ever gotten wet?

The extension cord is probably about 125 feet long. I have it plugged into an outdoor receptacle on my son's trailer next door. I have been using that extension cord in my garage for the last couple of months.

I made a pigtail with a male plug on one end and connected it to the #2 wire using wire nuts. I cut off all the strands except for five strands and then used a large wire nut. (I know that is rigged but I am just wanting to test the circuits before I close all the walls up. I will not continue to use it this way) FYI, I connected the two hot legs to the hot on the pigtail. This was to power up both sides of the breaker box.

I then plugged the pigtail plug into the extension cord. Went in the garage and turned all the breakers on except for the 240.

It was drizzling when I connected everything but the plug end never got wet. After I reset the breaker in the trailer, I plugged my fan back into it and it worked. I should have stayed there and did some more troubleshooting but I was tired after working there since early this morning. Now I will be up half the night thinking about this...

 

[mrb]

how many feet of #2 from where the ext cord is connected to the shop panel?

does the gfci trip immediately, or does it trip after a little while?

 

[green.bubbly]

how many feet of #2 from where the ext cord is connected to the shop panel?

does the gfci trip immediately, or does it trip after a little while?

27 feet of #2. Unfortunately, I do not know when it trips other than it tripped after I turned all my breakers on. That was when I unplugged it and went home for the day. I will have more info tomorrow after I go do a little investigating.

I have some 10/3 that I will run in temporary pvc conduit to my temp pole and connect it to the #2. I will probably do that tomorrow after work. That will at least eliminate the cheesy extension cord.

What would be the best way to connect the #2 wire to the 10/3 as a temporary connection?

 

[mrb]

the gfci tripping was probably leakage in the couple hundred feet of wiring involved and the fact it was damp out.

for your temp splice, split bolts and tape.

 

[green.bubbly]

the gfci tripping was probably leakage in the couple hundred feet of wiring involved and the fact it was damp out.

for your temp splice, split bolts and tape.

I sure hope you are right again.


A splice bolt as in this and a lot of tape?

 

[green.bubbly]

the gfci tripping was probably leakage in the couple hundred feet of wiring involved and the fact it was damp out.

for your temp splice, split bolts and tape.

You nailed it. I went this afternoon after work and plugged the extension into my temp pole and all was fine. Well except I have no hot going to one of my GFCI receptacles but that should a straight forward fix. The wires go straight from the breaker to the GFCI receptacle.

I had to work late so I did not have time to troubleshoot it but I do have voltage coming out of the breaker but nothing at the receptacle. I will ohm out the hot leg Tuesday.

Other than that, the other receptacle circuit all worked fine as did the air conditioner and the light circuits.

Now I have one more question. I have a 100 foot medium duty( probably 14 gauge) extension cord and a 50 foot light duty (Probably 16 gauge) cord running this operation.

When I turned on the air conditioner, I was not overly excited about the amount of airflow. I had 125 volts with the unit off and it would drop to 119 with it running. How much would this lengthy length of extension cord affect the fan speed? In other words, does a light duty length of wire affect voltage or current or both?

 

[Alchymist]

Assuming (I know) that the AC is a 120 volt unit and not a 240, 119 should be no problem - if that's measured at the unit while running.

 

[green.bubbly]

Assuming (I know) that the AC is a 120 volt unit and not a 240, 119 should be no problem - if that's measured at the unit while running.

Sorry, yes, it is a 120 volt unit and it was 119 volt while running. I measured at the breaker for the AC. About 125 with nothing running.

While building the garage, I was using the same extension cord setup. When I would use my skilsaw, my barrel fan would slow down noticeably. Would it be a voltage drop or a current drop that causes this? Or both?

 

[Alchymist]

Yes, voltage drop. The more load on the extension cord, the more drop. One reason I keep a couple 50 foot #10 extension cords on hand. Wouldn't think of running a circular saw on 50 feet of #14.....

 

[mrb]

when you plugged the ext cord into the temp pole, is it protected by GFI?

 

[green.bubbly]

when you plugged the ext cord into the temp pole, is it protected by GFI?

Yes, I had installed a GFCI receptacle on my pole.

 

[green.bubbly]

All is good. I finally got around to running some 10 gauge wire from my temp pole to the garage.

Thanks MRB, the splice bolts worked perfectly. Before I switched over form the extension cord, I would have 125 volts with nothing on and it would drop to 116 with the AC and a big fan. After switching to the 10 gauge, it would only drop to 123.7.

The problem with no power to my second GFCI circuit was a simple brain fart on my part. I had the line wires going to the load side of the receptacle. Figured it could not be much as I had power coming out of the breaker and it went 8 feet straight to the GFCI receptacle.

As of now, all my electrical is working and the AC is running. I put up the garage door temporarily and tried the AC for about 20 minutes. Seems that it will do just fine. I am missing two door hinges and I need to add some 2x4's around the outside of my door because my opening is an inch wider than my door.


I will take the door down Sunday morning and we will hopefully finish insulating and installing the OSB on the ceiling.

I am tired but I am losing weight and definitely getting back in shape.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Very glad to see things coming together for you. It all takes time.... and effort..... and a little skill.

Charles

 

[green.bubbly]

Very glad to see things coming together for you. It all takes time.... and effort..... and a little skill.

Charles

And a little help.

 

[ddawg16]

For the record....except for a short extension cord in the house for maybe lights, I would NOT own a 16g extension cord. (long story associated with it that could have hurt someone really bad)

When you consider that a good number of electrical fires start with extension cords....no reason to go cheap on them.

If you want a real good one....go down and get a good length of 12awg SO cord. Put you own male plug on one end and wire in a outdoor duplex on the other end.