Questions about daisy chaining a 50 amp circuit

[alchemy]

Sorry, I searched, but I couldn't search for "50 amp" and was getting a hundred results for smaller circuits.

So, I want to wire about five 50 amp outlets along my wall for a welder. I don't want to snake an extension cord as I'm usually pretty messy and it would be one more thing to trip over.

My question is how do you connect the large 6 gauge wire in the wall box behind the outlet? Can I connect the In and the Out lines both into the outlet, or do I need to make pigtails? I see all of this being difficult with this heavy wire, but trying to cram pigtails in there as well will be almost impossible.

The instructions on the box of the 6-50 outlets at the store say nothing about putting both the Inbound and Outbound into the same connecting screw.

Be aware I'm not a professional electrician (obviously), but I have a good idea about the proper way to wire 12 gauge stuff. This big stuff just kicks my ****.

 

[ABSTIFFGS]

I am pretty sure you cannot have more than 1 receptacle on a 240 volt circuit. Needs to be dedicated.

 

[pattenp]

It depends on what codes are adopted in your area. International Residential Building Code does not allow multiple outlets on circuits greater than 20 amps. I know in Virginia it's not allowed.

 

[nadogail]

It depends on what codes are adopted in your area. International Residential Building Code does not allow multiple outlets on circuits greater than 20 amps. I know in Virginia it's not allowed.

In my semi-informed opinion sometimes common sense should over rule the "letter of the law". When you have your one and only welder connected to your 50 Amp circuit, will you be connecting another?

I think not. IMHO, the intention of the code writers was to keep several welders from being operated from the same circuit and creating an overload.

In my small shop I have one 50 amp circuit and one welder, I have a 50 amp extension cord that will enable me to weld anywhere in the shop. I see almost no practical reason why two or more receptacles could create a problem.

As for how to connect the conductors, I personally would use split bolt connectors to make pigtails in a deep box.

Remember, my advice is guaranteed to be worth exactly what you pay for it.

 

[rockwithjason]

You will have a mighty tough time cramming 2 no 6 wires in one terminal and it wont be legal. You will be way over box fill if you splice in the same box you mount the device in. At a minimum you will need a 4 11/16 box and an industrial cover. A 4s box might work with an extention ring but it will hang way out from the wall. I dont have a code book in front of me but i seem to recall that outlet strings of 30a or higher were limited to industrial facilities.

Basically its your place and you can do what you want but the idea *****.

 

[Speedy Petey]

It depends on what codes are adopted in your area. International Residential Building Code does not allow multiple outlets on circuits greater than 20 amps.

Got a quote on that? This is one I never heard of.

See NEC 210.23

 

[Speedy Petey]

I am pretty sure you cannot have more than 1 receptacle on a 240 volt circuit. Needs to be dedicated.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong.

 

[Speedy Petey]

My question is how do you connect the large 6 gauge wire in the wall box behind the outlet? Can I connect the In and the Out lines both into the outlet, or do I need to make pigtails? I see all of this being difficult with this heavy wire, but trying to cram pigtails in there as well will be almost impossible.

The instructions on the box of the 6-50 outlets at the store say nothing about putting both the Inbound and Outbound into the same connecting screw.

You cannot put two wires under a terminal

Personally I'd use Polaris connectors, but that will get expensive fast. More work is split-bolts, but will be much cheaper.
You'll likely need deep 4-11/16" boxes to keep under fill.

 

[shillamus]

Seems to me working with extension cords would be cheaper than daisy chaining

You would need to pigtail out of the main line connecting 3 stripped #6 wires.. big terminal blocks or something.. split bolt connectors were suggested above

 

[alchemy]

OK, it looks like extension cords here I come.

 

[sberry]

Put one or 2 outlets and a cord. How big is the shop.

 

[sberry]

One well placed recept is worth 10 not in the right place and it will become the one you use despite dozens of fittings and hundreds in recepts and materials, connectors for a boogered circuit. Start with,,,, what welder are you going to use? This may make a huge difference and it may be easier and less costly to use 2 circuits and may not require number 6 wire.

 

[pattenp]

Got a quote on that? This is one I never heard of.

See NEC 210.23

This is International Residential Code For One and Two-Family Dwellings (IRC)

E3702.5 Branch circuits serving multiple loads or outlets.
General-purpose branch circuits shall supply lighting outlets, appliances, equipment or receptacle outlets, and combinations of such. Multi-outlet branch circuits serving lighting or receptacles shall be limited to a maximum branch-circuit rating of 20 amperes.

http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/c.../IRC/Chapter 37-Branch Circuit and Feeder.pdf

Even though the title says one and two family dwellings the code is applied to residential use property here in Virginia, even if the garage/shop is detached.

 

[nadogail]

This is International Residential Code For One and Two-Family Dwellings (IRC)

E3702.5 Branch circuits serving multiple loads or outlets.
General-purpose branch circuits shall supply lighting outlets, appliances, equipment or receptacle outlets, and combinations of such. Multi-outlet branch circuits serving lighting or receptacles shall be limited to a maximum branch-circuit rating of 20 amperes.

http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/c.../IRC/Chapter 37-Branch Circuit and Feeder.pdf

Even though the title says one and two family dwellings the code is applied to residential use property here in Virginia, even if the garage/shop is detached.

So, how is this relate to a dedicated circuit for a Welder in a workshop?

Additionally, because welders are special case intermittent loads the normal ampacity ratings for general service conductors do not apply.

My Hobart StickMate was shipped from the factory with a 50 Amp plug on a 12 gauge supply cable.

 

[-Brent-]

In the marine and RV world there is a 50 amp cable reel and I'm fairly sure you could get something from Coxreels. This way you mount the reel on the ceiling or wall and away you go.

 

[pattenp]

So, how is this relate to a dedicated circuit for a Welder in a workshop?

Additionally, because welders are special case intermittent loads the normal ampacity ratings for general service conductors do not apply.

My Hobart StickMate was shipped from the factory with a 50 Amp plug on a 12 gauge supply cable.

Dedicated circuit is to serve only one piece of equipment. A welder circuit has an amp capacity exception because of being a dedicated circuit (one outlet). Once you have more than one outlet on a circuit it's considered a general purpose circuit, not dedicated. IRC 20A max applies to multi-outlet general purpose circuits. I can only say how Virginia code is and it says no multi-outlet circuit greater than 20A in residential use.

 

[MFortie]

I asked one of our EEs the same question regarding a 30A circuit for an RV. He looked it up in the NEC and it was allowable up to a 30A circuit. Don't have the section to quote though...

 

[sberry]

Additionally, because welders are special case intermittent loads the normal ampacity ratings for general service conductors do not apply.

My Hobart StickMate was shipped from the factory with a 50 Amp plug on a 12 gauge supply cable.

Aside from residential code it can be done but needs to use a full size wire where there would be a possibility of overloading it with multiple machines. You could hook 2 machines to a 50A breaker with a 12 wire for each but we cant daisy chain an under sized wire. From a pure technical standpoint not a problem of tapping a 6 with a smaller wire.
My bud has a garage and had one welder circuit with a 6 or 8 and we split it with smaller cable for a 375 plas and a 211. He would be limited to only using the old buzzer on its own should he plug it back in but as it is he can run both smaller machines.

 

[Jess]

When I built my shop, I put in 2 dedicated 50A circuits at far ends of the shop, figuring I wanted the convenience of the 2. Now, after almost 9 years, one has never been used and I have an extension on the other one that will reach out the bay door to wherever I need the power. I wasted the $ on the cable and used up 2 breaker spaces for nothing. The extension was money well spent.

 

[sberry]

When I built my shop, I put in 2 dedicated 50A circuits at far ends of the shop, figuring I wanted the convenience of the 2. Now, after almost 9 years, one has never been used and I have an extension on the other one that will reach out the bay door to wherever I need the power. I wasted the $ on the cable and used up 2 breaker spaces for nothing. The extension was money well spent.

This is true more than not.

 

[RM209]

It depends on what codes are adopted in your area. International Residential Building Code does not allow multiple outlets on circuits greater than 20 amps. I know in Virginia it's not allowed.

I live in Montgomery County, MD, and the building inspector told me the same thing several years ago. When I mentioned that I'd seen (large) multiple receptacles on a circuit in businesses, the inspector said the electrical code was different for residential structures.

RM209

 

[sberry]

The reason they do this is that there are so many ways to screw it up and a lot of details to consider when adding a multi outlet and not everything that uses 240 is designed to be plugged in to 50A. Many machines come factory plug and the over current needs to match the plug. The internals of the machine are designed to be current limited by the circuit they are plugged in to and often enlarges in some components to account for this despite 1/2 the amp rating as if it was on 120. Bigger wire on controls and motor leads etc.