Questions about drip edge on roof

[BigE]

The roof covers my garage as well so this counts. I've got a neighbor/contractor doing some work on my house. I had him look at the roof because it's past its quoted life and way past its service life. I'll also be doing new gutters around the same time (house was neglected prior to my ownership). When he quoted the roof, he said nothing of drip edge. When I asked about it, he said he'd be glad to do it, but it's not necessary. When I asked him for details of installation, he explained that he would install the roof first then the gutters. Finally, he would slide the drip edge up under the shingles of the roof and over inside the gutter. Then he would secure the drip edge with screws from the vertical surface inside the gutter (ie. through the vertical drip edge flange, through the back of the gutter and into the eave board). My preferred method would be to nail it in from the top prior to installing the roof, but due to the timeline, that may not be feasible. My questions are: 1) do you think drip edge is necessary and 2) is his method an acceptable method? I'm afraid of water running down the surface of the drip edge, hitting the screws and leaching into the eave boards around those screws. The screws won't be low enough to be affected by water rising in the gutter. I'm just worried about what runs down the face.

Details on the house/neighborhood: my immediate neighbors do not have drip edge, even the recently re-roofed. My house did not originally have drip edge and the OSB edges did not rot after 24 years of service. My house is single story with a hip roof. The roof is not unreasonably steep. Here it is.

Thanks!

 

[babzog]

when my roof was recently redone, I asked for drip edge. Put it on via nails through the top.

 

[sc3013]

Yes on drip edges, most likly ether way. How tall is your ladder???

 

[Professur]

That's quite the photo

 

[rodnok1]

He's not on a ladder...this is GJ, he's in a custom lawn chair with ballons.
Yes to drip edge, I've seen it put on after using his method

 

[twostory]

Drip edge is a "good" thing to install. It is easiest to install just before you nail in the start strip. I would insist on it, but many roofers are just trying to save $50 one way or another

 

[jvitez]

I've seen the drip edge installed first, then shingles, but mostly it's been all shingling done, then the drip edge. Doing it this way they tuck it under the starter row of shingles,then nail it horizontally through the facial board. The eavestrough is installed next. These differences might be a regional variation based on habit, but also by what works in differing climates.

 

[dan76]

Your roofer's method sounds ok, but I've installed drip edge via nailing from the top prior to the first shingle course with great results. i.e. 4 roofs with no problems at 12 years of exposure.

If you're still concerned, take a tube of clear caulk and seal the screw heads after the gutter install.

 

[DHCrocks]

great question, I wanted to add a drip edge to mine becuase in some places the shingles do not overlap the gutter and water drips between the shingle and gutter. looks like I'll screw it on the vertical, I don't think I can nail it since the gutters will be in the way.

now for the important question, how did you take that picture?

 

[PurdueSD]

He idea isnt way out of line or anything, but it is half backwards. I suppose he is worried about getting the drip edge installed in front of the back of the gutter which is definately a must do for any approach. Its very easy to slide gutter behind drip edge though....On long runs where the gutter hangs below the bottom of the drip edge a lenth of trim aluminum should be used to take up this gap. Otherwise water will drip down the drip edge, and behind the gutter.



I like to run a layer of 30lb felt, install starter and start roofing. Gutters are last.

 

[pcmeiners]

Go along with PurdueSD, the gutter is slide behind the gutter edge.

 

[southpier]

Go along with PurdueSD, the gutter is slide behind the gutter edge.

your guy is hoping you'll either forget about it when the time comes or will never be able to see if he put it in or not.

sounds like Whack, Hack, & Tack Home Improvement to me

 

[ddawg16]

Drip edge....
Bottom edge of roof....goes on FIRST...then tar paper on top...then starter shingles
Side edge of roof....tar paper...drip edge....shingles....

I get the impression the roofer is not that experienced....when I had gutters installed they just slid the gutter up behind the drip edge. I guess you could do it the way he is saying but my concern would be that you would not be able to get it properly nailed....and it needs to be UNDER the tar paper.

When you think of your roof....think of scales....as on a fish....anything on the roof needs the material above it to be on top....that is why you start your tar paper at the bottom and work up....if water makes it past the shingle...it hits the tar paper and goes down...if the drip edge is on top of the tar paper...it will go under and get the wood wet....

 

[srmofo]

physics tells me that the drip edge should go on before the felt, but i was shown to put it on after the felt before the starter row. It really helps to keep the paper down when you cant do it all in one day. I know water can roll under it, but lets face it, if water has gotten down to the paper then you are going to have other issues as well. Ive personally seen 4 roofs done this way and not one has had a problem. and I know he did his personal roof this way 12 years ago still with no issues.

 

[p_mori7]

He's not on a ladder...this is GJ, he's in a custom lawn chair with ballons.

 

[KenS]

Drip edge....
Bottom edge of roof....goes on FIRST...then tar paper on top...then starter shingles
Side edge of roof....tar paper...drip edge....shingles....

I agree with this with one modification (very important in cold climates, but excellent insurance anywhere):

1. Ice and water barrier-- Grace Ice & Water Shield (formerly Fire & Ice), Owens-Corning Weatherguard, York Ice & Water Barrier 326™, etc.-- around entire perimeter of roof, along both sides of all valleys. This self-adhering underlayment membrane comes in 36-inch wide rolls, and provides an extra layer of insurance to the entire perimeter of the roof, including protection for rafter tails and roof edges.

2. Drip edge... and so forth.

 

[PurdueSD]

I agree with this with one modification (very important in cold climates, but excellent insurance anywhere):

1. Ice and water barrier-- Grace Ice & Water Shield (formerly Fire & Ice), Owens-Corning Weatherguard, York Ice & Water Barrier 326™, etc.-- around entire perimeter of roof, along both sides of all valleys. This self-adhering underlayment membrane comes in 36-inch wide rolls, and provides an extra layer of insurance to the entire perimeter of the roof, including protection for rafter tails and roof edges.

2. Drip edge... and so forth.

Agreed and Definitely worth the money!

 

[moparmuscle88]

you should install drip edge before you lay the first course of shingles, if you dont have much to nail it to, use t50 staples with a staple gun, itll hold fine,

you should not fasten the drip edge thru the vertical face that you see as that is where water will deteriorate the nail heads ove time and it will leak

 

[danski0224]

Go browse the installation instructions for the shingles you plan to install.

Deviate just a teeny tiny bit, and the roofing manufacturer will void the warranty, should you ever need or want it.

There are many steps that can be eliminated or changed so the roofer saves time on your job. That is important because most roofing companies pay by the square- the more the guy gets done, the more he earns.

Flipping shingles upside down and "bottom up" makes for a quick starter course, but it is not the same as the manufacturers starter strip. Exposure needs to be matched to the roof pitch. On shallow roofs, exposure is less- more materials and time. Nails vs staples. Number of nails per tab.

It all matters, especially with the cost of asphalt shingles right now.

In addition, you need to watch the job as it progresses. Very hard to check up on things later when they are covered.

If you retain the metal valleys (recommended), then go with a material that will last as long as the shingles- copper. Roofers here use 14oz because it is cheap. 16oz is a minimum, and 20oz is preferred.

You need a cricket to divert water from the backside of that chimney. Gotta love the idiot that stuck it through the valley.

Ice and water shield needs to be 3' past the interior wall below measured plumb, not 3' up the roof as many people understand. You will need 2 strips along the perimeter. If you won't do it right, then save the $$$ and don't do it at all.

A new roof over existing reduces the lifespan by 1/2.

Use 30# felt paper.

 

[cowboy73]

You definitely want drip edge. It helps protect the top edge of your fascia board. And there are two different types of drip edge. The there is the standard type which overlaps the fascia board by about one inch. And there is what is referred to as "Florida" drip edge. It overlaps by about 1 3/4". It costs a little more but it offers quite a bit of extra protection. My dad works for a lumberyard and all he recommends is the "Florida" style. Had it put on his own roof. He says it should be installed under the felt paper so the felt paper will act as a water shield for the edge on the roof.

 

[Red05GT]

From the looks of the rust on the valley metal, and the age of the house, I would
replace the valley metal while the roof is stripped off. Is it a tear off? The problem
with a fastener penetrating the vertical face of the drip edge is the moisture migrating
to the screws and rusting the screws and seeping thru. Many roofers like to skip the
valley metal and sell their customers on laced shingle valleys. Many new ways of
installing products originate because they weren't installed correctly and when the
contractor gets busted they come up with a hack job way of retrofitting the product.
Some roofers will argue that you just hang the shingles over the edge of the sheathing
an inch and it will droop down enough that it will shed the water off fine. Part of the
purpose of the drip edge is to protect the edge of the roof sheathing from moisture
and eventual decay.

 

[Red05GT]

Second what cowboy73 says about the larger drip edge. The weight, look and protection
it affords is well worth the added cost.

 

[BigE]

Thanks for all the replies!

One thing to keep in mind is that I've been talking to my contractor, not the roofer. He has a roofing sub that will perform the installation.

It's funny someone mentioned a cricket and the chimney being in the roof valley. That picture doesn't show the current state of the roof. The work I originally had him doing was pulling all that rock off the chimney and replacing with a cement board product. He asked if he could shorten the depth of the chimney to get it out of the valley and I quickly agreed. When he and his sub showed up to do the work, I asked about water running straight into the back of the chimney. He said they could do a cricket (never heard that term until now) and asked his sub. It was like asking if he wanted a 2 hour lunch. The guy couldn't agree quick enough and by the end of the day, I had a cricket to go with my new chimney.

The roof is going on as we speak so I guess I'll settle for his method for the drip edge. His original justification for not putting it on was the same as someone suggested: the shingles extend out and direct water into the gutter. I can't argue too much with that because the sheathing has survived 24 years that way. Although, the shingles are so old that they almost form a 90 degree bend as they droop off the edge. The damaged eave boards are due to lack of maintenance on the gutters, not the roof installation. I had 3 foot saplings growing in the gutters when I bought the place. Serious lack of maintenance.

Just FYI, I went with the OC Oakridge AR 30 yr shingles. It and Certainteed are the top rated shingles and I found them cheaper than my contractor could buy his brand, Tamko. I'm slightly changing the color so I hope I didn't screw that part up. I'm also ditching those two tin ridge vents and going with the continuous, shingled ridge vent. The two turbines and vent boots will be replaced. The valley tin is being replaced and the roof will be laced over the top. It will not be a true-lace, but partial with one side cut. Also, it is a complete tear off down to the sheathing. Any bad sheathing will be replaced and then new felt installed. Gutters will go up next, but I have to research and make a decision on those as well.

As for the picture, it was taken from a 102' aerial.

 

[PIJim]

What's a 102' aerial?

 

[BigE]

Sorry, work jargon. Aerial device like a bucket truck. That particular unit was a Pierce firetruck.