Questions on Garage Dust Collector/Vacuum Setup

[HighTechRedneck]

I am looking to build a whole shop dust collection and vacuum setup using my Shop Vac 12 gallon vacuum. I believe it is either 4.5 or 5 HP. My question is regarding vertical runs and lengths. I would be storing my shop vac in a corner of the garage with a remote power switch. I would then be connecting a dust deputy styled cyclone setup about 4 feet away to make it easily accessible. From there I want to run hoses to my various tools using a manifold with blast gates but my 2 major concerns are the floor sweep and the general vacuum hose. I would like to install a floor sweep between my garage doors on the opposite side of my garage, about 25' away. In order to do so I would have a vertical run going straight up roughly 5' to my rafters, across the shop, then straight down about 9' to my floor sweep.

This is where my question comes. Will my shop vac have enough power to **** up dust and debris through the floor sweep knowing it has to go straight up for 8' before it hits a turn and starts to go back to the vacuum. It seems to pretty a powerful suction but I've only ever used it with a 4' hose and standard shop vac ends. I have noticed that when I use the standard 12" wide vacuum attachment that it doesn't do the best job to begin with, so my vertical 8' run of hose is causing some concern.

I can counter that concern a little bit by saying that I am not the best at cleaning my filter and I usually am not using a very clean filter when I am cleaning, though I do clean it out and alternate filters occasionally. For this project, I do have a brand new filter that I intend on installing to go along with the setup and I am hoping that with that filter you guys will be able to reassure me that it will have the proper suction. I just don't want to spend all the time and money building this system only to find out that my floor sweep isn't adequate. Even without the floor sweep I would still install and utilize it on my other equipment such as my sand blasting cabinet, my belt/disc sander, my table saw/miter saw/router table, as well as future additions like a metal lather, a drill press, a mill, etc. Most of my equipment is placed much closer to the location of the vacuum and dust collector and I will be able to run those hoses mostly horizontally along the wall and/or floor without going up to the rafters. I just feel that adding a floor sweep would be the cherry on top and really complete my setup to keep my shop clean.

I doubt that it matters but most of the work I do is autobody related as well as metal work. I would mostly be sucking up body putty dust from sanding and metal shavings from grinding. I do a little bit of wood work but not that much and my table is on casters. The table itself will have it's own manifold for each tool so I can just run one hose to the table and then choose the tool. This is because, ideally, I would like to be able to wheel my table outside and then use the "general vacuum" hose, perhaps with an extension, to hook up the table.

I don't have a design drawn up to give a visual, unfortunately, as it's all in my head at the current time, aside from a list of the parts I need like the number of blast gates, the elbows, the stuff to build the cyclone, etc.

I apologize for the long post. My main question is if my shop vac will have the suction necessary to install a floor sweep roughly 25' feet away with a total of 15' feet of vertical suction, separated into a 9' vertical suction upwards at the end of the 25' run where the floor sweep is. The other vertical run would be sucking downward and would obviously not be a problem since gravity would help out there as well.

If anyone is aware of any whole-shop dust collection systems using a shop vac and dust collection system, please share the links. I did a little bit of Google'ing but I didn't find much other than building the dust cyclones themselves.

Thanks!

 

[pattenp]

I just don't think a shop-vac is going to cut it being used on a whole shop vac system as you describe. Shop-vacs are mainly high velocity and long lengths of hose and piping is go to have an adverse effect. Go over to LumberJocks and ask the same question. http://lumberjocks.com/forums Here's a search... http://lumberjocks.com/search_resul...=Search&siteurl=http://lumberjocks.com/forums

 

[Nowater]

No, I really don't think so. But here is a thought. One horsepower equals 746 watts. A five horsepower motor would draw over 37 watts and at 110 volts about 34 amps.

Read the nameplate on your shop vac.

Most woodworking machines require at least 400 cfm at the pickup to capture fine dust. The shopvac would be better at picking up wood chips up close.

 

[Denwood]

I have a setup similar using a Dust Deputy (highly recommend!!) and Ridgid shop vacuum. 8’ vertical and a floor sweep won’t work so well unless you have higher volume. Get the larger Oneida cyclone as their standard size will limit cfm from a shop vac somewhat.

This thread details the system: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327692

 

[TerryH]

Sorry but no chance your shop vac actually makes anywhere close to 5hp. What you propose is not going to work. You need a dedicated dust collector or cyclone that's designed to be ducted.

This is 5hp.

 

[JimNC]

Sorry, but the same guys that give amp ratings to car stereo amplifiers give the horsepower ratings to shop vacs.

 

[dfiler2]

You definitely want to build a separator, I use a 6 hp shop vac and a 30 gal separator, I have changed the bag in my vac 3-4 times in the last 3 years and empty the 30 gal drum a couple times a year. I have a 20' 4" hose on the drum, I usually leave it hooked to the unisaw and then use the hose for cleanup around the other saws. It works amazingly well. I want to put in a piped in system but I don't think it's worth doing unless you use at least a 2 hp dust collector. I have a friend who put in a 1 hp and my system works much better. I will eventually put in the bigger system but for now what I have works. Here is one system using a shop vac and smaller pipe., this guy set it up with a current sensor so whenever he starts a tool the shop vac starts,

 

[mray312]

Shop vac wouldn’t be enough to do what you are proposing. You could go with the shop vac and dust deputy combo. If you’re a one man shop and wood work weekends IMO you wouldn’t need anything more. I used Shop Notes plans to put my vac/dust deputy combo on a mobile cart and it does the job nicely.

 

[Denwood]

The 14 gallon Ridgid vac is relatively quiet, and moves about 180 CFM. The vacuum is definitely 10-15% restricted by the Dust Deputy (50-150CFM) in a 2 1/2 inch system. In other words, removing the cyclone improves system performance for a short time until the vacuum filter becomes clogged. That said, it works quite well with my table saw, planer, jointer etc., but having a larger cyclone (or two dust deputies) would provide a bit better suction. The shop vac never needs emptying with the DD attached..it's almost 100% effective.

I have just one run of 2 1/2" pipe and 3 gates.

My shop is very space restricted (16x20)..and I pull the vac out whenever I need it elsewhere. I've been using it for about 2 yrs now and would recommend this setup for a small shop. None of my tools are stationary as the shop needs to mulit-task often.

My only complaint (and not a big one) is that the 5 gallon DD pail fills up quickly when used with the planer. I've had zero issues with clogs as the pressure is pretty high with a 2 1/2" system at 180CFM compared to larger systems.

The 2 1/2" tubing reduces nicely down to small fittings like this one on my Makita track saw. Of all the tools in the shop, this one is as close to 100% "dust free" on the system as you could get I suspect.

 

[HighTechRedneck]

I really appreciate everyone's input. It's nice to see some differing opinions and some links/photos from several people as well.

For those who mentioned the Dust Deputy, I am absolutely planning to integrate one in my setup. I will probably make my own instead of buying theirs but the result is nearly identical in the end.

I'm not entirely sure how the powered dust collectors work but saw someone mention a 2 HP motor and have looked at the Harbor Freight one. Are those standalone systems or do they run in conjunction with a shop vac or similar? I need to do more research on those but perhaps I should use one of them in place of the DD/cyclone setup?

 

[Firebrick43]

Please read bill pentz site. Lots of good info and it not bs

But to paraphrase. What you want to do in your original post is not possible with a Shop-Vac you do not have enough volume of air

A dust collection system to be effective and be safe as far as your l u n g protection you need to have five real horsepower to develop enough CFM to collect us from large tools such as a table saw. A real 5hp motor pulls 23 amps at 220 volts single phase. I thjnk my ""6.5 hp"" ridgid pulls 11 amps on 110.v.

A Shop-Vac with a Dust Deputy and a short hose under 10 to 15 ft is a workable solution for many tools such as Sanders track saws and routers however larger tools such as table saws it will not get all the fine dust. With these tools you still need a respirator. It will work okay as a chip collector though. Putting too much hose or tubing on it such as a fixed pipe system drags the performance down so much it's not even effective for anything. Remember that airflow weather pushed or pulled, has friction affecting it weather it's your car's aerodynamics or a vacuum pulling the air down a pipe.

As far as the Harbor Freight dust collector, one word, don't. Neighbor decided to buy one and then is the biggest hunk of ****. Every time you turn it on it seems it spits more dust out the bag that was in it to begin with. also 2 horsepower is not enough. It has enough suction to function as a chip collector but not enough to get all the fine dust. My neighbor finally gave up on it because the filter is so bad that more dust would be in the air with it on then with it off. He refers to it as his dust circulator

 

[Ainsley]

I have two duct setups in my garage. A 2.5” that runs a total of about 20’ and flows through dual dust deputies on a brute trash bin and is driven by a 6.5hp ridgid shop vac.
The other system is a 5” main run in galv to 4 and 5” drops that runs to a HF collector with a Winn filter. See here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4580949&postcount=68

I’ve actually moved the 2.5” setup and added another DD since This post but it gives you an idea
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4604567&postcount=74

Moved:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5496204&postcount=132

And getting carried away with the blast gates:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7100917&postcount=180

 

[Farmerjonathan]

I bought the dust collector from HF and plumbed it on the outside of my shop under a lean to roof. Money well spent.

 

[HighTechRedneck]

I bought the dust collector from HF and plumbed it on the outside of my shop under a lean to roof. Money well spent.

I think I am going to go this route. Despite the few negative comments here, there is an overwhelming number of people who are happy with it and a ton of videos on YouTube showing people using one in action in the same manner I would use mine without having any issues. I do plan on doing the modifications to it, however, and not using it right out of the box.

I really liked the PVC setup posted above where the Shop Vac was in the attic space overhead but after reading and watching some more videos, the HF dust collectors seems like the way to go. So long as you modify it to get the most out of it - like many of their other items.

 

[JimNC]

If you are okay with exhausting air to the outside rather than filtering it and returning it to the workshop then the costs go way down. I dream of just blowing dust outside, but then that air gets replaced by my NC 90/90 summertime air and I’d spend less time in the shop.

 

[HighTechRedneck]

If you are okay with exhausting air to the outside rather than filtering it and returning it to the workshop then the costs go way down. I dream of just blowing dust outside, but then that air gets replaced by my NC 90/90 summertime air and I’d spend less time in the shop.

I saw a few people do this on YouTube recently and it's a perfect solution for me as well. I'm going to do the same modifications with the HF DC unit by mounting it on the wall and reversing the housing so it can blow directly outside through a wall. Then attach a cyclone vacuum directly underneath it and pump my piping from there.

Thanks so much for all your help!

 

[JimNC]

I saw a few people do this on YouTube recently and it's a perfect solution for me as well. I'm going to do the same modifications with the HF DC unit by mounting it on the wall and reversing the housing so it can blow directly outside through a wall. Then attach a cyclone vacuum directly underneath it and pump my piping from there.

Thanks so much for all your help!

Depending upon your tool, you might want to be able to put the cyclone close to the tool vs close to the fan. Hint of a planner or jointer which makes big chips, get those out of the pipe ASAP. For a table saw or router, less of an issue. Honestly I’ve never built one like this so don’t know, it just seems that having less mass in the pipe will improve airflow and performance.

 

[Ainsley]

The 14 gallon Ridgid vac is relatively quiet, and moves about 180 CFM. The vacuum is definitely 10-15% restricted by the Dust Deputy (50-150CFM) in a 2 1/2 inch system. In other words, removing the cyclone improves system performance for a short time until the vacuum filter becomes clogged. That said, it works quite well with my table saw, planer, jointer etc., but having a larger cyclone (or two dust deputies) would provide a bit better suction.

I finally got my dust deputy setup to the point that i'm happy. my ridgid makes a little over 200cfm and the deputies are rated for 150 each so I went with two.

 

[LeonardY]

I've got a 6 HP shop Vac with a min cyclone. It works well for power tools. I wouldn't use it for my standing tools. I also splurged years ago on a 2HP Dust gorilla when they first came out. I think I spent $1000. It has a 5" inlet and hose. It's on wheels so I just roll it to the tool and hook it up. I use Nordfab quick connect duct fittings at each tool. I'm the only person that works in my garage so I don't have a problem with swapping the hose around. The flange fittings are really pricey. But if you buy the hose connecters and do a little modification they work and are a 1/2 of the price.