Questions to ask a builder?

[CreekRat]

Our home is older and only has a detached single car garage. After 15 years of parking both vehicles outside my wife has thrown down the gauntlet, we are getting a garage built this spring(summer).

My problem is while I'm sort of handy I know my limitations. My father is my usual go-to guy for things like this but cancer treatments are getting the best of him so the Garage Journal is my best hope.

I've found a builder that has put up several quality buildings in town so I "think" I've found a good guy. I have a decent quote for a 30 x 40 building including concrete, studs on concrete, not a pole building (his idea). What questions should I be asking about what is included in the cost or specific construction questions?

Details so far: $17k(is typical for the area), 30' x 40' building, not pole barn construction concrete, 12" overhand, man door, window, two 7'x9' doors, single color, metal siding and roof. Both vehicle are F150's. There is no permitting or building inspection in my city/county.

What should I be following up on? Concrete thickness, stud spacing, etc..

 

[yeldogt]

Have him build two .... That is cheap. I could not get the slab for that price!

There are various ways to build each item. You need a full list of each detail.

Insulated slab/ how much. VB -- how thick. concrete thickness and strength ... type of doors and windows.

Each item will effect the price depending on quality.

I was just asking my builder what's a three car detached -- high quality going for around me. I have mine insured for $225k .... told me 190k ... they just built one and I went to look at it .. it's very nice ..... But.... still a shock!

 

[JRC3]

Electric is the first thing that pops into my head. What's included and how much for upgrades?

That does seem like a decent price.

 

[CreekRat]

No electric in this quote. Separately I need to replace the clay sewer line from the house to the main in the alley and upgrade the electrical panel that full and undersized.

This is a cheap area for some trades. Replacing about 150 feet of clay sewer line with PVC will only run a little over $1,000. It will be a little higher if I bump up the Schedule 40 since it will be driven over.

 

[2level]

At that price, I wouldn't be asking too many questions/taking up his time. Request 16" stud spacing and 10' wide doors. Do not pay upfront, other than a deposit.

 

[matt_i]

It appears very inexpensive almost to the point that there's minimal labor. So I'm a bit skeptical. But costs could be extremely low where you are.

Is there a frost depth foundation or is it just built on a flat slab?

Is the concrete reinforced, minimum thickness, do they saw cut the control joints the day after placement, do they do anything relative to curing the concrete (wet or curing sealer)

Truss spacing? If you want an interior ceiling someday it should be 24" on center. Are the trusses uplift-connected (Simpson H1Z or equivalent). Along those lines is there a spec for anchor bolts (min distance between <5', minimum 2 in each bottom plate), are they studs wet-cast into the concrete or do they use something quick and easy like tapcons into the slab?

You should stub thru the concrete for your electrical feed at minimum.

9' wide x 7' tall door, I would go to 8' tall. Its just a good idea for down the road.

It sounds like this is metal-skinned only. You might want a water resistant barrier like housewrap on the studs first if you intend to insulate someday. The roof may have the potential to "sweat" and rain indoors if the conditions are correct. Plywood decking on the roof plus underlayment would correct this but again extra cost. I also like the stregth that the plywood adds to the building.

There are wide ranges in quality of man doors, windows and overhead doors. It might not be the best idea to get the absolute cheapest of each style. Overhead doors can come thicker (2" vs 1-3/8") and internally spray-foamed instead of Juicyfruit-wrapper-metal-skin only.

A thing I would also worry about is the racking strength of stud walls without plywood sheathing. It could be steel X-bracing or let-in 1x4 wood bracing but how the builder approaches this is important. The sheathing also connects studs and bottom/top plate for uplift connection. How is this without ply? It could be flat metal strap over and under. A building can look great with nice fits and finishes and blow down in the first windstorm....

Local codes in my area addresses a lot of the things listed above in different ways. You have no codes which makes it easier and probably cheaper to do, but possibly at a functional cost. In other words:

There is always the conundrum of (good, fast, cheap) and you pick any 2....

 

[DGersic]

Drainage, especially if you’re in an area where you’ll be pulling in to the garage in a truck covered in snow that will melt off and have to drain somewhere.

At least stub in whatever you’ll need for electric connection. Probably run a sub panel off your house. You can wire it now or later.



Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[2level]

Not going to be 'good' at that price, but may be good enough. Has to be a monolithic pour at that price, hopefully on undisturbed soil. Sounds like OP has already seen examples of what the builder will build for that price. Might be easiest for both parties to tour a recently built same-type shop and get builder to agree that this new shop will be constructed the same way.

 

[HPRifleman]

While he may have put up some residential or commercial buildings, I would ask him if he has experience with garages. Or at least vehicle/shop spaces. Depending on how much you want this guy to finish out, garages have some unique design features that differ from a residential space.

I can't believe you can have a 1200 sq. ft. space built for such a low price. I'm not sure whether to jump on it before he changes his mind or be extra wary.

 

[JRC3]

Drainage, especially if you’re in an area where you’ll be pulling in to the garage in a truck covered in snow that will melt off and have to drain somewhere.

On that note, a curb/pan under the overhead garage doors and tracks.

 

[My Old Tools]

Go taller. 7x9 doors mean you can't back a truck in with something taller than the cab in the bed. Go 10' sidewalls and 9x12 doors.

 

[pcmeiners]

You should be talking to an Architect. Money well spent. They can spec out the entire build.

 

[Coopduc]

Your quote is $14/sf!
You know what they say about a deal that’s too good to be true?

 

[Jagmandave]

Where in Kansas? I'm getting ready for a quote to add 25 X 25 onto my garage.....

 

[sberry]

Go 36 wide and 10 doors, even those are tight.

 

[CreekRat]

Lot's of questions about price. That's just the price point in SE Kansas/SW Missouri/NE Arkansas. Labor is CHEAP here. This isn't the builder but I've attached a screen shot of a different outfit just an example of what a garage, usually a pole barn style, will run. I'll probably end up closer to 30x30 to get the options I want without having to get a loan.

Lot's a great info, I will follow up on drainage. I am concerned about electrical work and earthwork to prep the lot. There are few local electricians and I'll probably have to let the builder sub out the prep work.

 

[CraigStu]

I like to have 2-3 courses of block above the floor. This gets you some extra ceiling height the least expensive way. It also gets the wood studs etc 12 inches or so off the ground so much less chance of the bottom of the walls rotting out.

 

[Jrad235]

Get a perimeter foundation with separate floor. That's a big building to risk it settling along the walls and cracking your floor.

 

[James-W]

Just a suggestion, but I would ask about getting a two foot overhang rather than just one foot. I have a one foot overhang on all four sides of the garage and it works out OK, I have no problems with it. But I wish now that I had gone with a two foot overhang instead. In the great scheme of things it isn't that big of a deal, it just makes it a little nicer when the rain falls a little farther out onto the lawn.

 

[2level]

If CreekRat follows all these suggestions his 17K shell is going to turn into a 40k shell.

 

[ConCretin]

If CreekRat follows all these suggestions his 17K shell is going to turn into a 40k shell.

That's what I was thinking. For that price, expect the bare minimum in quality and workmanship and you won't be disappointed. Labor in your area might be 'cheap' but no one who is any good is working for $12 hour.

I bet I can guess what you get for a foundation. Since the site must be level, they will scrape off the organics and place a slab with 3000 psi concrete w fiber. Hopefully they will bring the power trowel. They might cut a few control joints and spray on a curing compound if you are lucky.

There is obviously a market for this type of structure and it might even meet the OP's needs but you get what you pay for.

 

[CreekRat]

If CreekRat follows all these suggestions his 17K shell is going to turn into a 40k shell.

Dang near. I'll cut it down to the 30 x 30 range to get some suggested improvements but corners will get cut.

Unfortunately there's no sense in spending $40k on a garage when the average home costs $70k tops. I'll move before I sink half or more of my paid off home's value into bedroom for my trucks and I'm not borrowing against it. There is just no recouping that kind of investment.

That's why I started this thread, to get the most value out of a very value based build. To find the areas that make the building a stable, relatively long lasting structure, not a show piece of design. I've heard great ideas that I'll follow up on with the builder that shouldn't break the bank. I'll start a new thread when my number comes up and they start on my build in the spring.

 

[red61cj5]

Dang near. I'll cut it down to the 30 x 30 range to get some suggested improvements but corners will get cut.

Unfortunately there's no sense in spending $40k on a garage when the average home costs $70k tops. I'll move before I sink half or more of my paid off home's value into bedroom for my trucks and I'm not borrowing against it. There is just no recouping that kind of investment.

That's why I started this thread, to get the most value out of a very value based build. To find the areas that make the building a stable, relatively long lasting structure, not a show piece of design. I've heard great ideas that I'll follow up on with the builder that shouldn't break the bank. I'll start a new thread when my number comes up and they start on my build in the spring.

Now that right there is some plain common sense.

 

[bczygan]

Everything must be completely defined on paper in the contract.

You don't ask him questions. You tell him exactly what must be done by including it in the contract documents which include the plans and specifications.

Time to educate yourself about construction.

And the only power you have, is having control of the money, to enforce the contract.

This is from an old builder/general contractor.

Oh, and there is no way you can get a valid price without these things. That is how contractors work. They give you a price without any detail of what you are getting. Then they cheapen things enough to make a profit. I've seen it. I've done it.

Since you don't know what to ask for, since you're uneducated, you will be initially happy. Later, when you learn what's what, you'll be less happy, but it will be too late.



Bill

 

[thunderalley3]

Great advice from all the post's, especially the last one from Bill,, "get it in writing in the contract the way you want it".

I went through this, not on a garage but on our kitchen cabinets. We were doing a kitchen remodel and I have an acquaintance that has been in the custom cabinet business a long time. I call him, we already had the layout, design etc we wanted. He stops by, verifies a few measurements, talks about a couple of things and gets back with us a few day's later with a price. I have seen a lot of his work and he over builds everything so I never even contacted someone else. I had a figure in my head at what I was willing to pay, he was within that range so we agreed and I told him to bring by a contract and I would give him a deposit.

When he comes by he just started writing basics on a legal pad. My wife said no, that was not enough and that she would type up a contract, for both of our protection if he was ok with that. He agreed. Before she did this she had two different set's of drawer pulls, knobs etc and hardware that she had picked out. She showed them to him and he said no problem, just tell me in a few weeks which one and I will get them. She types up the contract, fortunately with much detail and included in it that it included either x hardware package or ** hardware package and specified it by name. We all agree and all sign the contracts and everyone is happy.

He is ver busy and works alone most of the time so it was about a 4 month lead time for hum, we had no issue as we had a kitchen, About 3 months into it he called and said he had some doors completed and if we wanted to stop by and get an extra panel he made so we had the finished color to pick out our granite and decide on the hardware to stop by. We did and everything was great. We ordered our granite, he even said to run it through his shop and he would discount it, nice gesture. We went and ordered the granite, he provides them the dimensions, we decide on the hardware and all that is left is for him to call and say that they are ready so I can do the tear-out and I agreed to help him hang the new ones so he did not have to pay a helper, plus I would oversee the install.

A few weeks pass and my phone rings and he said "that hardware is not available" which was a big surprise as we had just looked at it a few weeks ago. Long story short when he agreed he did not check the pricing on the hardware and it was about $800 more than standard hardware. We spent $25K on the cabinets so this was my wife's splurge. Well it almost got ugly as he refused to get the hardware saying he never agreed to that. I produced the contract and he started to argue. At this point it is not going in a good direction, he had treated us right and was a somewhat friend by now so I agreed to split the cost My wife does not know to this day what happened as she would have made him stick to the contract. I used some of my "mad money" to pay him and all ended well, but if it had not been in writing it would have gotten even uglier. I only agreed to pay extra as he discounted our granite, which was about a $5K savings so I still thought it was fair, and I must add that when it was all over he admitted his mistake to me and offered the money back. I said no, buy me a beer sometime. I knew we were settled as I don't drink.

Get everything in writing!!

 

[JRC3]

If CreekRat follows all these suggestions his 17K shell is going to turn into a 40k shell.

Welcome to The Garage Journal forum. Better add another 30K for the Snap On tools, *MaxJax, Wilton vice, stainless steel airlines, ...



*(Brand new in need of repair)

 

[Danno1]

.



Speaking of getting it all in a contract, check out the thread where the guys roof blew off before the building was even finished. The contractor really skimped on the nails holding the roof on.

And it was not a storm either, just normal everyday wind (gusty though).


.

 

[gungatim]

LGR!

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: if you have friends, relatives or know people that like their builder get their builder's name so you'll maybe hear what the builder has to say instead of having to know his business.

i'll read the rest of the posts and comment later and wish all of you the best if you have to build something especially in the cities cause rules seem to change all the time.