Quick lighting question

[Compact]

I promise to make a full thread about my garage build, which is now fully underway. However, I need some quick advice on lighting.

From what I am reading on here, most everyone goes with fluorescent lighting. I have always hated fluorescent with a deep passion. Whether it is the buzzing, the flickering, the fact that they remind me of hospitals, I don't know.

I had thought all along that I would spend a few extra bucks on some LED lighting, or even halogen. Halogen seems out now, due to the fact that it would **** up valuable ceiling space with its airspace requirements (I assume due to the heat).

It took me awhile to search LEDs on here, because LED is only three letters and the search engine on here won't do a 3 character seach (although it acts as though no results were found rather than tell you this). Once I discovered that I could find LED information on here by making it plural, it turns out that most here on are the fence about these.

Long story made into a short question:
1. Can I get the garage lit with LEDs? How much cost am I talking? Any links to suppliers?
2. If I MUST get fluorescent, is there an optimal bulb/balast that will minimize the annoyances of this type of lighting? Links?

I'm trying to get something ordered by end of day. Research has already told me that I should have at least 2 switches and bulbs side by side in clusters so that I can choose the intensity of the lighting.

Please help me

I attached a rendering of my garage in case this helps so far as dimensions go.

 

[GTOGreg]

Go with Flo's. Hospitals of the future will use LED.

 

[Chris Adams]

LED's are not ready for prime time in the garage lighting field.

I hate buzzing and flickering drives me from the room.
That said, after 18 months of using 21 ten dollar Walmart t-8 lighting fixtures I'm quite happy.
No buzzing. No flicker. One unit failed in the first 90 days, free exchange. Another made a quiet buzzing sound for two days, at about a year. Then stopped making the sound.

No sounds since. No radio static. That's with 21 fixtures running and an AM radio with no antenna.

I've only replaced one bulb and that was bungee cord related in fact, I feel stupid having 39 spare bulbs a year and a half later, I was so in the habit of swapping bulbs on the old t12 bulbs that I stocked up...

My lights are abused. I flip them on and off like you do incandescent bulbs.
Might stay on 10 hours, might get turned on and off five times in two hours.

 

[Falcon67]

I use the cheap $18 T-8 shop light fixtures from Lowes. Out of 16, I have one that has a very faint humm when on. No flickers, etc. Our entire house is flo or CFL, no incandescent anywhere. I use all electronic ballasts and everything is instant on and no buzz or flicker.

 

[Madogeoff]

Hey Compact,

This is my first comment on "The Garage Journal"

x2 on the florescents, they ain't what they used to be. More efficient, cold start, no or little noise, can get really nice color bands depending on your preferences.

The ones I am talking about are the "T" series with the narrower tubes.

I purchased two units for my shop. The main one holds six tubes and has a grated protective shield. Lightens up my 21x21 foot shop great.

For over my workbench, where I like bright illumination I have a two bulb light with a generous stainless steel reflector.

Both units were installed with plugsins and hung by chains so that I can move them around to other projects on the property when needed.

Anyhow, best of luck with your shop, I will be watching your thread with interest as I am also in the process of finishing the interior of my shop

 

[mslisaj]

I light up my 3600 sq.ft. shop with six T5H0 florescent fixtures. Each fixture has four bulbs. I checked out all the lighting options and this was the best and have been trouble free, hum free and work well in the 20 degree temps too. My only complaint is I need about five more fixtures to really light the corners up but those will come soon................

T5HO's are my vote.....

Lisa

 

[MoonRise]

LEDs are pretty much out for nowadays because of $$$$$. Smaller and limited usage applications excepted.

Fluorescent lights can be much 'better' than in 'olden days'. You need the (newer) electronic ballasts (they run at faster switching speeds instead of 60 Hz line frequency, so there should be no visible flicker, they don't or shouldn't hum, and they usually start up better) and then you need GOOD bulbs/tubes with a decent color temperature and a decent CRI.

With decent electronic ballasts and bulbs/tubes with decent color temperature and CRI (look for full-spectrum 'daylight' tubes with a CRI of 85+ IMHO), fluorescent light can be decent.

One drawback can be low-temperature operation, but you probably don't have to worry about that in Miami.

Use old-style magnetic ballasts with low CRI bulbs and IMHO they s-u-c-k. Buzz, hum, flicker, poor color rendering, headache-inducing ****.

 

[rwhite692]

....I have always hated fluorescent with a deep passion. Whether it is the buzzing, the flickering....

Good fixtures with low THD ballasts, such as the Lithonia GEB10IS, are completely silent, there is no "flickering". The issues you speak of are endemic to cheap fixtures.

In order to produce a well-lit space with LEDs, on a comparable level to what you can achieve with good fluorescents, you are going to spend a small fortune, and you should plan on about 20% failure rate within the first year of operation.

Unless you are operating the lighting on a 24x7 basis, you are going to have a tough time (if ever) achieving cost payback vs. flourescents.

 

[RobSmith]

We've got LED street lights at work...so bright you can't look at them directly. They are 18" long and 6"wide. They cost $900 each. Try searching "Light Emitting Diodes"...look at "Best Hong Kong LEDs"

 

[Compact]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The reason I was considering LEDs wasn't due to energy consumption, but rather my reservations about fluorescent's shortcomings.

"Good fixtures with low THD ballasts, such as the Lithonia GEB10IS"
I will look around to see who sells these ballasts. Any suggestions on fixtures, and where to buy from?

Also, thank you for the suggestion on color temps as well. That is exactly the kind of data I needed.

So does everyone have a favorite size/fixture? Considering the size of garage I have (see first post for pic)? I like the idea of having them on two switches so I can choose some light or lots of light, so the fixtures with two or more bulbs that can be wired to turn on independently would be ideal.

 

[peelman]

As long as you don’t buy the cheapest fluorescent fixtures most places have, you’ll be fine. I bought a pair for my attached garage, gave $10 each for them at Menards and hated them from the moment i hung’em. They buzzed and were cold natured and were about as annoying as they could be. So one at a time i replaced them with $30 American Fluorescent fixtures and haven’t looked back. No noise, they come on instantly, even when cold. I’m running T12 bulbs in them now, but they’ll accommodate T8’s.

Moral of the story, spend a little, buy quality, don’t buy the cheap ****, and it’ll save you money in the long run.

 

[Compact]

If it helps, I am willing to spend decent money on this. Definitely not going to cheap out. Not when the wife has already given this project the OK.

 

[trainwreck]

With decent electronic ballasts and bulbs/tubes with decent color temperature and CRI (look for full-spectrum 'daylight' tubes with a CRI of 85+ IMHO), fluorescent light can be decent.

This is my chief gripe against LED lights. I vastly prefer them within limited applications, but it's so hard to get accurate color out of them. Even the white LED's aren't really white, but throw a distinct colored cast. Even if you didn't mind a shift color temperature, not all colors reflect back well either (because of the cast) so you get a weird lit/not-lit effect based on what colors you're looking at. I like LED's when I need to know something is there or not (think flashlights, emergency flood lights, etc), but I hate them for anything even vaguely approaching precision work.

LED's have gotten better about throwing a diffused light, but they're still no way near what a fluorescent light will put out.

 

[darkk]

I build many many LED lighting projects. If I could afford the *LED* lighting, there would be no question I would use them...

 

[rwhite692]

"Good fixtures with low THD ballasts, such as the Lithonia GEB10IS"
I will look around to see who sells these ballasts. Any suggestions on fixtures, and where to buy from?

One of many Lithonia fixtures which use that ballast:

http://www.drillspot.com/products/301243/Lithonia_L_2_96_T8_MVOLT_GEB10IS_General_Purpose_Industrial_Fixture

 

[Chris Adams]

As long as you don’t buy the cheapest fluorescent fixtures most places have, you’ll be fine. I bought a pair for my attached garage, gave $10 each for them at Menards and hated them from the moment i hung’em. They buzzed and were cold natured and were about as annoying as they could be. So one at a time i replaced them with $30 American Fluorescent fixtures and haven’t looked back. No noise, they come on instantly, even when cold. I’m running T12 bulbs in them now, but they’ll accommodate T8’s.

Moral of the story, spend a little, buy quality, don’t buy the cheap ****, and it’ll save you money in the long run.

I had a thread on this a year or so ago.
I have had some bad T-8 units. They were the more expensive ones. That is, 35-40 bucks retail at Lowe's and Home Depot.
The 10 dollar ones are the ones I kept in the shop. The 40 dollar ones failed, buzzed, etc. almost as bad as the old T-12 units.
The really cheap 10.00 for a pair ones at Walmart gave me the best bang for the buck.

In my house I use four bank T-8 florescent lights in three rooms (my wife needs lots of light, she has RP) and while the 100 dollar fixtures look much nicer in a house setting, they perform exactly the same as the 10.00 fixtures.

So frankly, unless you just like spending more, try the ten buck solution for a while and see if you don't just keep it.

 

[6768rogues]

I use T-8 and some T-5 lights. I had a demo of LED lighting and it looks promising for about 5 years from now. Lots of bright light with very little electricity, but I am not ready to pay $20 to $50 per bulb.

 

[peelman]

The one other thing i forgot to mention earlier, don’t underestimate the value of a good hood around the lights. Even with light or white ceilings, a good hood funneling the light downward works wonders. That was one of the differences I notice every time i’m in the garage, between the “expensive” lights and the cheap lights. The cheap ones had almost no hood, scatter light up on the ceiling, up high on the walls, etc. The new lights, which have a pretty decent hood, get so much more light to the floor where i’m working, and scatter less on the walls and ceiling.

When you can run 12ft bulbs from wall to wall, you don’t mind a little leakage, but otherwise, directing the light is just as important as making it.

My other admission/caveat to my situation is, I needed lights I could hang and take down later without a lot of fuss, as I’m in a rental for the time being, and I refuse to put up stuff I can’t take with me unless its absolutely necessary.

 

[Jack Olsen]

My garage is lit with almost nothing but inexpensive CFLs. They're literally inside of $5 Home Depot clip-on trouble lights. But the thing is, I've got great lighting in my garage -- primarily because I've paid attention to the color temperature of the bulbs I buy, and (to a lesser extent) because I've got a lot of different light sources spread all over the garage.

People find fluorescent lighting 'depressing' primarily because of the color temperature that's been associated with fluorescent lighting for a long time. It's cold, blue, and the humming sound has always provided a tanginble reinforcement for something that hits us more emotionally -- it's that dull blueish hospital light coming from a few sources up high along the ceiling.

Modern fluorescents put out light without the buzzing and flickering, and they can do lower color temperatures, with yellow overtones that are more like incandescent lighting. Even if you go with cheap CFLs in cheap fixtures, you can pull off something that has a very nice 'feel' to it, and also allows great visibility for when you're working.

 

[ForceFed70]

LED's will never replace florescent lighting unless a quantum leap is made in technology. Contrary to popular belief LED's are NOT more efficient than florescent lighting. There are some brand new (and VERY expensive) LED's coming out that come close to the efficiency of modern T8 florescent lighting, but they are still less efficient.

Like already mentioned:
- florescent lamps come in a varity of colors/temperatures so there is no worry about the color of the light.
- a decent quality fixture will not buzz or flicker.
- T5 and T8 based fixtures light up very quickly even in cold temperatures.

Really... florescent is the way to go. LED's are great and a good idea in a lot of applications, but garage lighting just isn't one of them. There are some other very efficient options, but they typically require a higher ceiling height (min 20') from what I've seen.

 

[Compact]

OK- I am definitely getting fluorescent- probably the one's here:
http://www.drillspot.com/products/3...LT_GEB10IS_General_Purpose_Industrial_Fixture

My only question now is- looking at the rendering I made, how many of these would you all suggest? I was thinking of 4 2-bulb fixtures in total, with them mounted on the ceiling along the sides of the car front to back.

 

[peelman]

Those look like great fixtures.

Depends, is your garage roof really pitched like you have it in the picture? If so I’d so something along the lines of:

If that front part of the pitch isn’t deep enough to let you run the lights straight, I’ve seen guys lay them in at angles (which is how i kinda tried to sketch them in there). I’d want that light up front more and less along the sides, but that’s just me, going off your picture

 

[srmofo]

I bought 12 twin bulb fixtures at HD for around $38. They have a nice broad reflector on them, but I havent got around to installing them yet. I just installed some keyless fixtures and stuck some cheap bright CFLs in them until I got drywall hung and to pass my electrical inspection.

The only thing holding me back from keeping the keyless and returning the $600 in fluorescent is the warm up time. It takes 2-3 mins for these things to put off any light when its even remotely cold. But for $20 I have damn good lighting. Sorry these are the best pics I have of them.

This thread might help you too.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55707

Also in a garage that narrow I would consider mounting something lower on the wall, at least at the front if you work on cars in there. You tend to get lots of shadows in narrow areas....and paint the walls white

 

[Compact]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Much appreciated. I think adding a couple of lights on the back wall will also help, but I don't need to make that choice as quickly.

As for the ceiling, it has been suggested that I get 4-bulb fixtures and wire them to switch on half with one switch and half with another, for a bit of control.

So in the configuration kindly posted by Peelman, would 4 of these work nicely?

http://www.drillspot.com/products/3...lt_1_4_geb10is_industrial_fluorescent_fixture

Tell me yes so can order the darn things and move on to figuring out the next debacle!

Oh, the garage will be painted white. Not an INTENSE white, but white. The floor will be racedeck, and probably in some kind of interesting pattern. Not sure yet.

 

[Compact]

Based on everythign stated, do these bulbs fit the bill?

http://www.drillspot.com/products/3...c_F32T8_SPX30_ECO_Fluorescent_Lamp_Pack_OF_36

The CRI is 86 and supposedly makes a nice warm tone. ***** they only sell them in a 36 pack (I only need 16), but I guess spares aren't a terrible thing to have. Good bulb choice?

 

[Firebrand]

In the movie business, we use LED instruments all the time. Yes, the color temperature is different from CFL output, but that's just one of the good points! Lower heat output, flicker-free operation, dimmable, and oh yes, so much smaller and lighter when you build them bigger.

If you were ever considering solar power for your home/shop installation, this is the perfect time to consider a lower amp draw lighting solution. Sure, they cost more initially, but the savings are passed along every time you fire them up!

 

[jimmie jam]

i basically solved my lighting issue in my new 600sf garage addtion by utilizing 75W CFL's in the daylight spectrum. ceiling is 13' high. this was by accident as i just wanted to get the final inspection completed. i had the electricians put 9 ceramic fixtures (the old school cheap ones) and i picked up a box of 75W CFL's at Costco for about $10. after the inspection passed i started to think about the fixtures for T-8's. i then noticed that the level of light was perfect with just the CFL's. yes, i know . i'm now done with my lighting issues i agree with JackO.