Quiet alternatives to mini-split?

[This2ShallPass]

Hello all!

Now that I have found out from all of you about how much installation runs for a mini-split, I know it's way out of my league. So I'm looking for options that will heat and cool a garage that will double as a guest space -- so has to be reasonably quiet and work reasonably well and heat/cool reasonably evenly. When I've been in shops or restaurants with the overhead heaters, it has seemed like its nice and warm right underneath, but quickly gets cold as you move away from the heater. Have they improved any? Would if make more sense to hang two smaller ones? My space is insulated and 24x24, 10' ceilings. The weather here almost never goes to freezing. If I had my druthers I'd have something with an actual thermostat, but definitely need some kind of settings, not just on and off.

To be honest I don't really understand how radiant heaters work, tho I've read a lot of threads here. Do they need to be vented? Gas is right there in my garage already for the HWH so I'd prefer to use it if possible. This one looked interesting: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXF0M/?tag=atomicindus08-20
but the venting issue worries me. Also what would you use just for keeping it steady at 55 or so when it's not in use? A gas filled radiator? I used to love mine when I lived in Denver.

In the summer it's in the 90s for most of July and August, except when it's in the 100s LOL. (Luckily it's dry and almost always cools down to the 60s overnight!) If I'm stuck with a through the wall unit I guess I'll live, but still wondering about something like those hotel units -- are they as expensive to put in as mini splits? Also anyone know anything about the so-called portable AC units? They require hoses to vent so I'm not sure how practically they can actually be moved. I will put in two ceiling fans as well -- they are practically a necessity out here.

All advice greatly appreciated!!

many thanks!

T2

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hello all!

Now that I have found out from all of you about how much installation runs for a mini-split, I know it's way out of my league. So I'm looking for options that will heat and cool a garage that will double as a guest space -- so has to be reasonably quiet and work reasonably well and heat/cool reasonably evenly. When I've been in shops or restaurants with the overhead heaters, it has seemed like its nice and warm right underneath, but quickly gets cold as you move away from the heater. Have they improved any? Would if make more sense to hang two smaller ones? My space is insulated and 24x24, 10' ceilings.

Evenly heating and cooling an area that size, especially with a high ceiling, is a challenge. 2 "air handlers" slaved together would definitely do a better job. Most mini-split units can be hung high on a wall, but they also sell a different style that can be mounted closer to the floor, kind of like an old fashioned radiator.

As for noise, you will have to witness their operation first hand to evaluate if it is acceptable.

If I had my druthers I'd have something with an actual thermostat, but definitely need some kind of settings, not just on and off.

Every one I have seen has a thermostat. Many now have a "remote control" style thermostat. Place it next to your chair and the temperature will be whatever you set it to, right there. With 2 air handlers in one room, they need to be "slaved" together to that they both turn on and off in sync.

If I'm stuck with a through the wall unit I guess I'll live, but still wondering about something like those hotel units -- are they as expensive to put in as mini splits?

They are cheaper to install, but they are more expensive to run.

Also anyone know anything about the so-called portable AC units? They require hoses to vent so I'm not sure how practically they can actually be moved.

Yes, that is the biggest problem.

 

[Jackfre]

Minot or Miami? It does make a difference.

 

[This2ShallPass]

Huh?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Huh?

Where do you live !

Minot, ND or Miami, FL ?

 

[This2ShallPass]

Ah, sorry, thought I had posted it but I only posted about the heat -- sorry! -- small town between San Fran and Sacramento -- hot, hot, hot all summer long (but cools to 60s at night), and in the 50s in the Winter, though occasionally down t the 40s -- it even went below freezing a couple of times.

So what would your advice be please, based on that?

T2

 

[Jackfre]

PTAC's as in those in hotels are noisy, noisy, noisy. As well they are not very efficient when compared to a mini-split. Keep in mind, that while the mini-split is costly, they run very efficiently. Elec rates being what they are here in CA, you will be better with the MSHP. In this last summer here in Nevada City I ran mine for the whole house, lights, well, the whole shebang for a peak of $85. That is over a 2000 sq ft house. Dig deep and get the mini-split.

Before hitting the reply button I re-read your post. You may have to go with the best window shaker you can find. I've been away from that for a while an so cannot give a good recommendation.

 

[ghnl]

Now that I have found out from all of you about how much installation runs for a mini-split, I know it's way out of my league.

Are you willing & able to do the installation yourself? It is not hard - install the outside unit, install the inside unit and connect two copper pipes and some wiring.

I had the electrician do the runs to outside connections while they were doing the rest of the garage so that didn't really cost me extra. Once I had the units installed & the refrigerant pipes connected I paid an HVAC tech to evacuate the lines and make sure it was filled to the proper amount with refrigerant. This saved me a lot of money vs paying an HVAC company to do the whole install.

As stated above, they are very efficient. I haven't really noticed an increase in our electric bill since adding the split units to our garage (not used daily however).

 

[This2ShallPass]

Wish I were. :-(

 

[theoldwizard1]

Before hitting the reply button I re-read your post. You may have to go with the best window shaker you can find.

Eh ?

Why the back pedaling from a mini-split ?

 

[This2ShallPass]

Sorry. Wish I were able to do it myself!

Why? It's purely financial. Maybe I will be able to upgrade in a few years, but I just can't right now. I am still going to get a local quote or two, just to compare, but was hoping some of you could really give me some concrete help with the less expensive options. I DO have natural gas handy.

thanks again,

T2

 

[msgross]

Eh ?

Why the back pedaling from a mini-split ?

agreed, I added a minisplit to my new master suite addition and love it. Quiet, efficient and didn't affect my current system.

go with a window air conditioner and a space heater when guest show up...


Other than that I'd install it myself and then have an HVAC guy charge it, no that hard from what I see. I bought a Fujitsu... not cheap but works well.

 

[Jackfre]

Eh ?

Why the back pedaling from a mini-split ?

The OP says it is impo$$ible. Certainly the mini-split is the best option.

 

[theoldwizard1]

go with a window air conditioner and a space heater when guest show up...

Campfire for heat and a block of ice with a fan for cooling would be cheaper !

 

[olytdi]

If there was a cheaper alternative to MS systems, everyone would do that...

 

[This2ShallPass]

"Campfire for heat and a block of ice with a fan for cooling would be cheaper ! "


Naw. Around here wood is more expensive than n gas -- maybe even more than electric. ;-)

 

[Kogashuko]

Those small propane tank mounted 110,000btu heaters would fit your price range but they would **** you in fule. We have a propane fireplace and we moved into this house in 2005 and my mother owned it. We paid rent and eventually purchased it. When we moved in she got the huge outdoor propane tank filled for us and it lasted until 2011 when the heat pump went out. Luckilly, I saw the shortcomings of the old trane heat pump and took the chance to split the house into 2 zones and install a rheem 14seer on the first floor. Then when the old air handler crapped out in 2011 (30 year old trane kicking a 90amp breaker, hardly worth disabling the strip heat and trying to repair since it had a low heating factor in the winter anyway.) So I dropped in another Rheem for the second floor. I went with smaller total size heat strips because the pumps were supposed to be a higher SEER. Little did I know SEER does nothing in the winter.

So when we purchased the house the propane vender tried to get us to sign a revolving rental on the tank. My mother paid $20 a year because her contract was grandfatherd in and she just paid it when she paid hers and I didnt really know she paid rent on it. So I discontinued service and they came out and took the empty tank. They even took the bricks it was sitting on. It only made sense to do since the cost to refil the tank was well over $500 and with only the 20,000 btu fire place it didnt make sense. I then ran the fireplace off of grill tanks.

This is great but gets redundant and they dont last but for a few days. The two Rheem heat pumps are not efficent in cold weather and come to find out their HSPF was about the same as the old trane unit. So I decided to do a mini split that I am installing now!

The price was fair and I am going to go with the 11.5hspf unit in the living room to replace the stove. Of course it was a 20,000 btu stove but I never ran it on anything but low and it was less than 70% effient so we will be looking at close to the same size anyway. I will put it this way, a 1200 watt space heater works fine for the living room.

Well with all my projects going on $1200 was not really in the budget right now. But neither was propane or electricity. Definitly not putting in bigger heat strips and wiring to the air handlers to support them. So, I went to the Ingrams Water and Air ebay sale page and did the paypal bill me later service. I have a year to pay this thing off with no interest and no financing. This might be a good option for you if you want a mini split and what you save in fule can go towards the bill. Heck the thing only uses 14guage romex and a 15 amp breaker to power the thing. I think max amp draw is like 8 amps. The self install is easy compared to the Rheem units. The only thing tricky will be topping the refrigerant off down the line since the metering device works slightly different than a normal heat pump. I did find reference on LG's website on how to do it without weight though.

Sorry for the long reply. Hope this helps.

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^ it helps, but where are located ?????????? You have publish some good info in several mini split posts but without a location it has far less value.

 

[This2ShallPass]

Those small propane tank mounted 110,000btu heaters would fit your price range but they would **** you in fule. .

I have natural gas that comes in at the garage, so I definitely wouldn't use propane, LOL. Is there something similar you can recommend that would use NG?

Thanks!

T2