Quincy Compressor Quality Control (or Lack Thereof)

[IndyGarage]

Quincy's operations folks deemed it not repairable after seeing the pics and opted to replace the unit. Folks at TP Tools, who sold it to me, also saw the pics and doubted a tap would work. The recipient who saw with is own eyes also lacked confidence that a tap would clean up hardened welding slag that big. That was enough consensus for me.

Maybe I don't know what I'm looking at.

I don't see anything that looks like weld slag, I don't see anything big. I see a tiny spot of pushed up metal in the second thread - something that looks to me a tap would clean up in 30 seconds.

 

[finn]

That’s not welding slag, and that should be obvious to anyone reading a thread on this forum. It’s a classic case of a galled thread, ie friction welding between the thread ramp on the fitting and the corresponding thread ramp on the welded in bung.

The adhesive welding can be minimized by insuring there is proper lubrication during assembly.

Stainless steel threads are particularly prone to this type of failure, but in this case, I suspect the bung is made of some sort of high sulfur free machining steel

This is a simple failure to remedy with a tap, a new fitting, and some thread sealant. At worst, a simple Helicoil should fix the problem

Come on guys, I can’t believe Quincy is actually shipping compressors around the country instead of doing a five minute field fix. This isn’t exactly an industrial rated compressor. It looks like the Quincy homeowner version.

 

[Handyandy23]

To be fair I'm guessing Quincy would rather replace this one and repair and verify it back at their own facility. They don't want to have the failure magnified by a failed repair and get even more egg on their face.

 

[Riggerson]

It's unlikely that a weld-on bung would be made on free-machining steel on a pressure vessel. I also wouldn't recommend a pipe thread helicoil on a brand new pressure vessel.

Pressure vessel should be replaced in this instance. If I messed up the NPT thread on my own compressor I would run a tap through it. I wouldn't repair someone else's mistake on a brand new tank.

 

[trpearcy]

Just a quick note: if for some reason you get another failed unit, maybe get a refund and look into Jenny? I believe they’re completely made in the US. The one I got about 2 weeks about appears to be completely USA made. The only part that said “China” was the pipe plug in the side of it. But even the ball valve and pressure gauge and switch say USA on them

 

[finn]

It's unlikely that a weld-on bung would be made on free-machining steel on a pressure vessel. I also wouldn't recommend a pipe thread helicoil on a brand new pressure vessel.

Pressure vessel should be replaced in this instance. If I messed up the NPT thread on my own compressor I would run a tap through it. I wouldn't repair someone else's mistake on a brand new tank.

I suspect you are correct in that corporate policy wouldn’t allow a tank to be repaired with a helicoil, but re tapping or running a thread cleaning die should be acceptable.

This type or repair is in no way similar to welding on a pressure vessel. The repair isn’t going to cause a crack to propagate to the tank shell.

Point being this isn’t some great quality problem, and no company that wants to stay in business can employ end of line inspectorsto check fore random one off failures.

100% inspection is 90% effective is a trite phrase we used to use when end of line inspection was eliminated in favor of statistical process control in the automotive industry thirty years ago. If u

 

[tarbellb]

Send them all back and get a Saylor-Bell or Champion unit, better machines just without the GJ hype.

 

[The Cobbler]

there would be several ways to fix that, but in the corporate & litigious world we are in, they cut their liabilities by replacing it. question is, will they repair it or will it be scrapped, sent to clearance center or what?
I bet they don't repair it.

 

[dkmc]

People see the name 'Quincy' or 'Ingersoll Rand' (and a half dozen others) and associate them with the industrial versions of this equipment. I'm guessing that's exactly what the sellers want. Problem is, these are the consumer or 'prosumer' line sold on the cheap, without much engineering and apparently without much if any QC. For what they are, the prices are no bargain either. It's a classic case of satisfying the consumer with a 'name brand' product that's out there in all the right places for the consumer to see, and to purchase. Standard saying apply's here: You get what you pay for. Many times, you get less than what you pay for....

 

[IndyGarage]

People see the name 'Quincy' or 'Ingersoll Rand' (and a half dozen others) and associate them with the industrial versions of this equipment. I'm guessing that's exactly what the sellers want. Problem is, these are the consumer or 'prosumer' line sold on the cheap, without much engineering and apparently without much if any QC. For what they are, the prices are no bargain either. It's a classic case of satisfying the consumer with a 'name brand' product that's out there in all the right places for the consumer to see, and to purchase. Standard saying apply's here: You get what you pay for. Many times, you get less than what you pay for....

I don't see anything wrong with the compressor. There's not much "engineering" in any product that hasn't changed in the past 40-50 years.

Paint looks good, looks like it has a Baldor motor.

Some dimwit cross threaded the valve - which is a stupid error, but stuff happens. I'd have cussed and then fixed the thread and been done with it in an hour and probably forgotten about it next week.

 

[dkmc]

I don't see anything wrong with the compressor. There's not much "engineering" in any product that hasn't changed in the past 40-50 years.
.

Of course you don't. And you wouldn't see the difference between this one and a QR series either. Welcome to the PROsumer world of low quality tools marketed to the uninformed. And yes, the engineering has changed. Its been cheapened up in every way possible. Obvious if you know what details matter.

 

[gatewaysysop]

It's unlikely that a weld-on bung would be made on free-machining steel on a pressure vessel. I also wouldn't recommend a pipe thread helicoil on a brand new pressure vessel.

Pressure vessel should be replaced in this instance. If I messed up the NPT thread on my own compressor I would run a tap through it. I wouldn't repair someone else's mistake on a brand new tank.

Completely agree, and surprised that some don't see it this way. This goes doubly considering it is already the second compressor they've had to ship out, since the first one wasn't even the model we ordered.

Besides that, as I believe I said earlier, what happens if you attempt repair yourself and it is unsuccessful? There could be consequences as far as the warranty goes, and that's not a risk worth taking if the manufacturer would rather replace the unit after seeing the pics for themselves.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I was going to hold off until later this week, but with so some folks asking for an update and others arguing the merits of whether the 2nd compressor should go back, I wanted to steer things back on topic and bring some closure to this thread.

As I mentioned in the outset, I spoke with someone in Operations at Quincy (Brad) and explained the entire frustrating history of this transaction, including the first compressor being being lost, then arriving late and being the wrong model, then the second, correct unit arriving with a significant leak due to assembly mistakes. Brad was kind enough to lend me his ear on a Saturday, and took a look at the photos for himself. He concurred that field repair was not a good option and wanted to make this right for us, because this isn't the Quincy experience that customers were supposed to have.

Brad offered to get a replacement compressor expedited and sent out early the next week, but wanted to do something extra to make up for all the hassle and frustration. Unsolicited, he offered to upgrade the replacement from the QT-54 to the QT-5. On top of this, Brad's team went above and beyond to ensure the 3rd time would be the last, having his folks personally QC the entire unit for the better part of two days, including a pressure test, before shipping it out.

What's more, I got a phone call from Brad and one of his colleagues, Enrique, who is a VP in quality control. Both offered a sincere apology for the experience but what's more, they explained that they had gone so far as to track down the root cause of both the original order being wrong (human error on the part of a particular employee not following procedure and admittedly working from memory) and the boogered up threads (new employee working too fast in order to impress his boss). I was astonished that they went to those lengths. No, they did not fire anyone, nor should they have. They did indicate they were working on improving some processes so that the behaviors leading to these issues would be discouraged. Additionally, as might interest some of you, Brad and Enrique indicated that they are coincidentally just starting a pilot program with some new leak detection equipment from Fluke, to see if they can do a better job catching these types of issues before units are shipped out.

I was really happy to hear that they are at least trying to do something to improve on several fronts, and that the phone call wasn't just lip service and an apology tour. Both Brad and Enrique wanted to ensure I was satisfied with the response and that they were serious about trying to use this experience to improve going forward.

Below are some pictures of the new unit after it arrived:

I really appreciate Brad and Enrique at Quincy taking the time to look into this, and Brad's efforts to go the extra mile and turn the experience around for a customer dealing with one mistake after another from their company.

For what it's worth, since it came up in this thread, I told Brad he would been well within his rights to cheap out with a small partial refund and waive responsibility thereafter, as I expected plenty of his competitors would have done. His response was that Quincy stands behind their products and wants their customers to get the quality that they paid for.

Kudos to Quincy for making this right, and Brad in particular for all his help and empathy.

 

[Handyandy23]

Good on them for doing right and going above and beyond to get you a good one eventually! I know everyone hates to admit it, but every company produces defects, even the best ones. The defect rates are just lower. But there are always going to be a few, and those get out to customers somewhere.

I work in quality control in the auto industry so I'm not surprised at all they are root causing how these issues happened. Aside from looking bad, the mistakes are costing them a lot of money. Unfortunately "human error" and work instruction changes are the lowest form of countermeasure, but depending on the processes you might be kind of stuck with that.

100% leak testing would be a step up and would have most likely caught your leak. The best error proofing would be to have some kind of torque monitored tool that installs the valve, as that would have flagged this as bad right away. I'm guessing it is hand installed and tightened with a wrench or some other manual tool, and the hope is that the employee can 'feel' cross threading, which in this case they obviously didn't. Torque monitored tools will make sure you're not exceeding a certain torque, you meet a minimum torque, you meet torque requirements within a certain angle (number of rotations), or ensure that your torque doesn't increase too quickly relative to angle.

 

[trpearcy]

Wow. Nice job from Quincy getting it right, and defiantly good of them to upgrade it for you.
I once took a marketing class in college, and they told us that it takes 11 good experiences to make up for one bad experience. Quincy defiantly is trying their best to make up for a bad experience, and that’s a commendable thing. Lots of companies out there today, even USA based ones, don’t have the time of day for customer concerns, and only care about the bottom line.
Thanks for the update

 

[CarguyMD]

Glad to hear it worked out well for you in the end. I've always heard good things about Quincy.

 

[finn]

I doubt the even need a sophisticated torque monitoring tool on the line.

The thread galling could be eliminated by simply changing the specs of the male threads on the fitting to include a preapplied sealer / thread lubricant. If the threads hadn’t galled, there would be no leak.

The returned compressor will be repaired and sold as a factory reconditioned unit through an outlet.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

Pressure vessel should be replaced in this instance. If I messed up the NPT thread on my own compressor I would run a tap through it. I wouldn't repair someone else's mistake on a brand new tank.

I would...like Indy Garage, throw a tap through (make a half-*** one out of some spare black pipe if need be), get a valve, and move on. It would take less time and be less stressful.

 

[dnschmidt]

I would...like Indy Garage, throw a tap through (make a half-*** one out of some spare black pipe if need be), get a valve, and move on. It would take less time and be less stressful.

WRONG ATTITUDE
If this guy, and others like him, wouldn't raise holy hell then nothing would ever improve. The employee who sent the wrong compressor knows she can't **** up anymore or she's gone. The new employee cutting corners has been put on notice not to do that anymore. The more people that fix factory mistakes themselves the more mistakes will be made. Quincy made changes that were necessary because of this guys complaint, if he doesn't *****, nothing changes and the clown mistapping the hole mistaps more holes. Quincy thanked him for bringing all of this to their attention by upgrading him as they should.

 

[driftpin]

I assume that the problem was from an inexperienced new employee working improperly, from the description. Thank-god no one was hurt.

Chuck Yeager, in his biography, told the story of an military jet which crashed due-to an improperly-installed bolt, causing loss of functioning control surfaces. They traced the issue back to the worker on the assembly line who was installing them wrong.

Here is some discussion on design vs. production. It specifically-mentions the Yeager story, and more.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/01/31/0158238/mechanics-mistake-trashes-244-million-aircraft

My father was an early member of APICS, American Production and Inventory Control Society. They were early adopters of total quality management and statistical analysis for productivity improvement.
http://www.apics.org/about/overview/history

W. Edwards Deming: TQM: build quality in, and you don't need a battalion of QC inspectors at the end of the production line. https://deming.org/ 14 Points of Management,#3:Cease dependence on inspection to improve quality.

 

[G-ManBart]

I assume that the problem was from an inexperienced new employee working improperly, from the description. Thank-god no one was hurt.

Chuck Yeager, in his biography, told the story of an military jet which crashed due-to an improperly-installed bolt, causing loss of functioning control surfaces. They traced the issue back to the worker on the assembly line who was installing them wrong.

Here is some discussion on design vs. production. It specifically-mentions the Yeager story, and more.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/01/31/0158238/mechanics-mistake-trashes-244-million-aircraft

My father was an early member of APICS, American Production and Inventory Control Society. They were early adopters of total quality management and statistical analysis for productivity improvement.
http://www.apics.org/about/overview/history

W. Edwards Deming: TQM: build quality in, and you don't need a battalion of QC inspectors at the end of the production line. https://deming.org/

The F-117A that crashed outside of Baltimore Maryland years ago had a control failure for the same basic reason....bolts in the wrong orientation. I set up the National Defense Area around that site and spent days there until it was removed. Luckily, nobody was seriously injured, but it came down in a residential driveway and barely missed two guys loading blue shell crabs into their freezer that was at the end of the driveway....like 20 feet away!

 

[gatewaysysop]

WRONG ATTITUDE
If this guy, and others like him, wouldn't raise holy hell then nothing would ever improve. The employee who sent the wrong compressor knows she can't **** up anymore or she's gone. The new employee cutting corners has been put on notice not to do that anymore. The more people that fix factory mistakes themselves the more mistakes will be made. Quincy made changes that were necessary because of this guys complaint, if he doesn't *****, nothing changes and the clown mistapping the hole mistaps more holes. Quincy thanked him for bringing all of this to their attention by upgrading him as they should.

Thank you. I really can't believe this stuff needs explaining, but I am glad someone else points it out.

 

[NoMoreGreen]

they changed their color for the compressor. I actually like it better.

 

[gatewaysysop]

they changed their color for the compressor. I actually like it better.

 

[finn]

I assume that the problem was from an inexperienced new employee working improperly, from the description. Thank-god no one was hurt.

Chuck Yeager, in his biography, told the story of an military jet which crashed due-to an improperly-installed bolt, causing loss of functioning control surfaces. They traced the issue back to the worker on the assembly line who was installing them wrong.

Here is some discussion on design vs. production. It specifically-mentions the Yeager story, and more.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/01/31/0158238/mechanics-mistake-trashes-244-million-aircraft

My father was an early member of APICS, American Production and Inventory Control Society. They were early adopters of total quality management and statistical analysis for productivity improvement.
http://www.apics.org/about/overview/history

W. Edwards Deming: TQM: build quality in, and you don't need a battalion of QC inspectors at the end of the production line. https://deming.org/ 14 Points of Management,#3:Cease dependence on inspection to improve quality.

Exactly why I suggested bringing the fitting into the plant with preapplied sealer / lube on the threads. Take things out of the operator’s discretion to improve quality.

 

[spepin]

The plug isn't rated for 5hp (none are), it can't be used.

Careful when you say "none". There are switch rated plugs, but they are expensive, and you won't find them at Home Depot.

I don't have enough posts here to post links, but Google "Meltric Motor Plugs"

 

[EOC_Jason]

Glad it all worked out in the end. Mistakes happen, but the important thing is they made it right.

The QT-5 is a MUCH better pump than the QT-54... But you already know that.

I have an old little Quincy 210 from the 70's (est), I am lucky enough to have a local Quincy dealer and when I went there the guy was super nice and extremely helpful.

It's sad how many companies have had to sell out & merge to try and stay competitive with cheap chinese imports... and that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[Fix Until Broke]

Good story and glad to hear that Quincy stepped up to the plate and hit this one out of the park!

I agree with the statement that you have to let a company know when they've made a mistake. If you cover it up by fixing it yourself, nothing will improve (actually, it will get worse). The frustrating part is that 9/10 companies that you bring something like this up to, just don't care or won't even return a call. Again, kudos to Quincy for doing the right thing!

Given the result, you might consider changing the title of this thread and putting a note in the first post (linking to post 53) about the outcome so someone in the future doesn't just glance at the first couple posts and write Quincy off.

 

[tarbellb]

I don't see anything wrong with the compressor. There's not much "engineering" in any product that hasn't changed in the past 40-50 years.

Paint looks good, looks like it has a Baldor motor.

Some dimwit cross threaded the valve - which is a stupid error, but stuff happens. I'd have cussed and then fixed the thread and been done with it in an hour and probably forgotten about it next week.

Good paint adds at least 5 cfm to any compressor, its science.


Like dkmc pointed out, all the engineering in the last 30yrs has to been to cheapen the product. And no, you cant see it. Just pokes it head out a few years down the road.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Good story and glad to hear that Quincy stepped up to the plate and hit this one out of the park!

I agree with the statement that you have to let a company know when they've made a mistake. If you cover it up by fixing it yourself, nothing will improve (actually, it will get worse). The frustrating part is that 9/10 companies that you bring something like this up to, just don't care or won't even return a call. Again, kudos to Quincy for doing the right thing!

Given the result, you might consider changing the title of this thread and putting a note in the first post (linking to post 53) about the outcome so someone in the future doesn't just glance at the first couple posts and write Quincy off.

Agree on all counts regarding feedback to the companies. In the business we say that feedback is supposed to be a gift, but too many times people handle it the wrong way (or just ignore it completely). This experience was a pleasant surprise.

I did amend the original post as well to include a link to the updates.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Agree on all counts regarding feedback to the companies. In the business we say that feedback is supposed to be a gift, but too many times people handle it the wrong way (or just ignore it completely). This experience was a pleasant surprise.

I did amend the original post as well to include a link to the updates.

The problem with feedback is 99% of it is negative. Not too many folks take the time or THINK to send GOOD feedback. As a happy Quincy user for many years, this thread planted a seed and now I'm going to contact them with kudos for both, making this right with the OP and making a great product.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Sigh.

I really, really hoped this saga was over and with a positive resolution, but starting to think there may be something wrong with this third compressor as well, now that we've wired it up and aired it up a few times.

Basically the unit runs and quickly fills up to approx. 170 psi, at which point the pressure switch cuts out, more or less as expected. What's weird is that when the unloader valve subsequently opens, it spews air for an average of about 10 seconds. That seems pretty excessive, doesn't it?

Additionally, the tank pressure seems to drop to about 165 psi by the time it stops unloading. After this, while there is nowhere near as much noise as the unloading, the pressure continues to drop (say 1 psi per minute) until about 160 psi, at which point it seems to stop dropping. For kicks, we left it overnight and it seemed to hold at 160 the whole time and did not leak (at least not enough to notice) by the next day.

We've been able to repeat this behavior with consistent results every time it's fired up, but it does not seem right to me. Is this symptomatic of a problem with the tank check valve? I cannot understand how that could be if Quincy purposely pressure tested the unit, unless they did not pressure it past 160 psi (I did not ask, so that's possible).

Perhaps I just don't know enough about these units, and if that's the case someone please do chime in and correct my thinking, but the excessive unloading time and consistent leak down to lower-than-cut-out psi behavior does not seem correct to me, and has me worried that something isn't working properly.

If this unit also has some kind of defect going on, I will be supremely disappointed, considering that Quincy spent a full two days purportedly QC'ing to ensure that the third unit would not have any issues on arrival. I don't even know what to say at this point if something else is wrong with compressor #3.

Will call up Quincy for some insights tomorrow, but welcome the group's thoughts in the interim.

 

[The Cobbler]

I would check the unloader line with soap & see what it's doing to make sure it is the unloader. 10 seconds does sound extreme.
can you hear a leak from 165 to 160?
I imagine the pressure would drop as it cools .

man, that ***** if you got another bad one ...

 

[gatewaysysop]

I would check the unloader line with soap & see what it's doing to make sure it is the unloader. 10 seconds does sound extreme.
can you hear a leak from 165 to 160?
I imagine the pressure would drop as it cools .

man, that ***** if you got another bad one ...

My old man will tell you he "can't hear thunder" so it's tricky for him to listen for a slower leak like this.

That said, he tried but wasn't able to pinpoint it, and could not find anything with soap and water. The consistent nature of the leak down to 160 psi is what makes me think it's something mechanical rather than, say, threads or a pinhole somewhere.

And yes, if this unit also has a problem, I really don't know what to say. I almost want to just ask for a refund and wash my hands of it. My dad feels terrible that I've spent weeks on the phone back and forth with Quincy, and I feel bad that he still doesn't have a working compressor.

 

[dkmc]

10 seconds is excessive considering the typical volume of air it would bleed down with typical plumbing. But there might be a smaller orifice in the unloader. Pressure drop seems excessive too. Over time as the air cools it will drop, but 10psi? Sounds suspect.

 

[ZRX61]

The F-117A that crashed outside of Baltimore Maryland years ago had a control failure for the same basic reason....bolts in the wrong orientation. I set up the National Defense Area around that site and spent days there until it was removed. Luckily, nobody was seriously injured, but it came down in a residential driveway and barely missed two guys loading blue shell crabs into their freezer that was at the end of the driveway....like 20 feet away!

Was that the one that ended up on a stick at Plant 42 in Palmdirt?

 

[EOC_Jason]

This video sounds about 10 seconds + for the same pump (but 7.5 hp motor):

Very end of the clip (obviously)...

As for the pressure dropping... Are you testing always from empty tank to fill, or just regular cycling? It could just be a combination of the hot air cooling in the tank, and either a gauge that is slightly off or possibly the pressure settings on the switch...

What should be 170, down to 165, then 160 does seem a little odd... What's the ambient temp around there?

If it didn't lose any pressure for a couple days, I would be okay with that...

You can always remove the schrader valve off the pressure switch to make sure no debris is gunking it up.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

A bunch of years back, I had a Quincy 'Air Master' which used the same pump as the QT-5
and yes, the unloader did bleed off for about 10 seconds as I recall.

Ask you dad to check the receiver safety valve by quickly pulling and releasing the release ring. It's possible something foreign is keeping it from completely sealing. Also have him check the receiver condensate drain valve to be sure it is completely closed.

As others have stated, when filling from a completely empty receiver, the pressure will drop approx. 10 psi as the air cools.

 

[gatewaysysop]

What should be 170, down to 165, then 160 does seem a little odd... What's the ambient temp around there?

If it didn't lose any pressure for a couple days, I would be okay with that...

As others have stated, when filling from a completely empty receiver, the pressure will drop approx. 10 psi as the air cools.

It dropped from 170ish to 165 in seconds while it was unloading, that should not be happening period, as far as I understand. The drop from 165 to 160 took minutes, as in under ten minutes.

For giggles he left it for an extended period and checked again today, so it sat longer than last time. Now it fell to 150.

Tank was empty the first time, after that it was aired down to 125 or whatever the cut-in is set to, and allowed to fill back up to 170 where it has been cutting out.

If it's going from 170 to 165 right away, then down to 160 at a pound a minute, then slowly losing another 10 by sometime the next day, I am fairly confident that is not expected behavior and evidence of a leak.

My old man and I both talked with Quincy this morning, apparently their tech guys also think something is wrong with the unit based on what is happening.

Regardless of how they resolve it, at this point I will never buy another Quincy product again. They told me they spent two days having an entire team go over this thing for manual QC, including a pressure test. That they still sent out a leaking unit after that, I think it speaks for itself.

 

[The Cobbler]

you deserve to be totally pissed if this compressor is faulty .