dkmc
Well-known member
My buddy calls the QT series the "Chintzy Quincy" line.
There shouldn't be any leak down regardless of what pump is on top of the tank.
There shouldn't be any leak down regardless of what pump is on top of the tank.
Quincy Compressor Quality Control (or Lack Thereof)
- Thread starter gatewaysysop
- Start date
OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
It is. And I am.
Agreed. I've lost all faith in them at this point as a brand. Sorry to say it, but what a disgrace.
PCMusicGuy
Well-known member
Sorry for your troubles. I hope they get it sorted. Maybe now we won't see Quincy recommendations on the forum anymore.
OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Further updates to share.
After discussing with Quincy technical support, it was agreed that the best thing to do was get a tech out there to diagnose the leak down and see what's going on. Quincy went ahead and forwarded the contact and compressor information to R.W. Lindsay, which I guess is a 3rd party that does compressor repair for them in the region. In addition to requesting a field diagnostic, Quincy noted which replacement parts to have on hand, based on the description of the leak.
When R.W. Lindsay calls to discuss an appointment, their opening volley is to suggest that maybe there is no problem. They then said that even if there was a small leak, the only thing they can do is hunt around with soapy water to try and find it. When my old man explains that he'd already tried and couldn't locate anything obvious, the technician responds with, "Well then I don't know what else I can do if I go out there." The tech then says he needs to call Quincy back to figure out what they expect him to do.
This despite the fact that Quincy tech support gave R.W. Lindsay the go-ahead for a field diagnostic, and a list of parts to bring. Ultimately the R.W. Lindsay employee would not even schedule the field diagnostic and said he'd have to call back after speaking to Quincy, which he of course never did.
I ended up calling Quincy back myself to ask what happened, but they had no explanation for the shenanigans with R.W. Lindsay or any alternatives on how to move forward.
At this point, Quincy's No Bull Warranty™ feels more like Bulls**t No Warranty to me.
Truly disappointed with these folks. One more reason to never go near their brand again.
After discussing with Quincy technical support, it was agreed that the best thing to do was get a tech out there to diagnose the leak down and see what's going on. Quincy went ahead and forwarded the contact and compressor information to R.W. Lindsay, which I guess is a 3rd party that does compressor repair for them in the region. In addition to requesting a field diagnostic, Quincy noted which replacement parts to have on hand, based on the description of the leak.
When R.W. Lindsay calls to discuss an appointment, their opening volley is to suggest that maybe there is no problem. They then said that even if there was a small leak, the only thing they can do is hunt around with soapy water to try and find it. When my old man explains that he'd already tried and couldn't locate anything obvious, the technician responds with, "Well then I don't know what else I can do if I go out there." The tech then says he needs to call Quincy back to figure out what they expect him to do.
This despite the fact that Quincy tech support gave R.W. Lindsay the go-ahead for a field diagnostic, and a list of parts to bring. Ultimately the R.W. Lindsay employee would not even schedule the field diagnostic and said he'd have to call back after speaking to Quincy, which he of course never did.
I ended up calling Quincy back myself to ask what happened, but they had no explanation for the shenanigans with R.W. Lindsay or any alternatives on how to move forward.
At this point, Quincy's No Bull Warranty™ feels more like Bulls**t No Warranty to me.
Truly disappointed with these folks. One more reason to never go near their brand again.
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dkmc
Well-known member
My God. Absolute lazy *** ******** response. No one on this board can read that and not get ticked off at that totally lame response. Neither of those 2 companies has a clue. Shame.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
So are they going to just return it and give you a full refund? I think that's all I'd want at this point. Pretty pathetic.
OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
I've asked if that's a possibility, seeing as how they seem unwilling or unable to service the now 2nd defective unit they've managed to send out. Would be nice if it didn't come to that, and if they could just get someone out to fix it, but I am starting to wonder.
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EOC_Jason
Well-known member
I can't believe the service tech didn't want to come out... Warranty work is a pretty easy paycheck...
I love this site. You get such a variety. I work in customer service and honestly a lot of you are the sort of customers that we dread dealing with. We live in a world now where it's completely acceptable (for some reason) to shop based entirely on cost, which in turn drives down quality, and then make unreasonable demands when it comes to customer service, and on top of it if we don't get our way, and often even if we do we go trash the company on message boards like this.
They should either take the compressor back (which I would do if I were them, killing 2 birds with one stone), or send someone to run a tap through the hole. Problem solved, no recreational bitching required.
They should either take the compressor back (which I would do if I were them, killing 2 birds with one stone), or send someone to run a tap through the hole. Problem solved, no recreational bitching required.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
When a company, let's say... Samsung... Sells the same TV to dozens of different retailers, all of which sells them at different prices... Why wouldn't a person buy from the store at the lowest price if it's the exact same thing?
In this case, the OP was buying a "premium brand" made-in-usa air compressor, not some cheap chinese generic brand. When buying anything NEW, expensive or cheap, you expect it to be DEFECT FREE and work as NEW. That's why any reasonable product has a minimum of a 1-year warranty.
nafterclifen
Well-known member
Sad world we live in when the customer who doesn't accept sub-par work or non-functioning equipment is the bad guy.
And I personally feel the OP is being quite fair in this whole scenario. How did he trash Quincy? Seems to me he's just stating facts and sharing an honest opinion.
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That's not what we're talking about, were talking about the fact that Quincy even needs to put out a compressor like this in the first place. The reason is nothing other than price. Everyone wants and expects industrial quality and performance at HF pricing. It doesn't exist, somewhere they need to cut something out. So don't be upset that you have bought a HF quality compressor and received a HF quality compressor.
This is in no way a professional compressor. This is no better than a off the shelf HF deal.
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It's not that you can't have a warranty. It's how you go about it. Making unreasonable demands and bitching and brand trashing online. That's what is unacceptable. If your unhappy with the purchase fine, ask them to take it back and leave it at that.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Maybe you missed the part where Quincy took back faulty compressor #1, and replaced it with one they "spent 2 days QCing and testing", which also turned out to be bad.
Also the part where OPer bought a Quincy compressor straight from Quincy because he wanted a quality US-made product, rather than "price shopping for the cheapest option". Ironically, if he had bought something cheap at Harbor Freight and it was defective then he'd probably have gotten it replaced with a lot less fuss and phone calls.
Your post couldn't have missed the mark more in this particular situation.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
If it's made and sold by Quincy and in the US, why shouldn't there be an expectation of it actually working? The complaint isn't that it's not powerful enough or that he used it every day for 12 hours a day in a professional shop and it's wearing out. It's stupid stuff like it won't even hold air!
I guess you'd be fine buying a new truck and having the brakes not work pulling out of the dealership, and them tell you "well shoot, you only bought the 1500, hardly an HD truck! You expect brakes that don't leak then don't buy the cheap truck!"
OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Appreciate the kind words. I'll continue to post updates as I get them. Should know more tomorrow afternoon sometime, as a tech visit has finally been scheduled.
PMD1966
Well-known member
Glad I read this entire post. I was considering buying a Quincy compressor.
Possible unloader issues aside im surprised that im the first to say that compressor leak down is 100% normal. 10, or even 20PSI loss in 24 hours is fine. They're far from a perfectly sealed pressure vessel. There will be an unnoticeable (audio, visual, or otherwise) amount of loss from hoses and connections over days.
Depends on the company. Some of the big ones pay garbage, especially if the guy goes out and everything is fine. The only reason you'd accept into those warranty service contracts is if you needed filler work. I wouldn't be surprised if Quincy paid 25% of their normal hourly rate and by a flat rate scale to boot.
Depends on the company. Some of the big ones pay garbage, especially if the guy goes out and everything is fine. The only reason you'd accept into those warranty service contracts is if you needed filler work. I wouldn't be surprised if Quincy paid 25% of their normal hourly rate and by a flat rate scale to boot.
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American Locomotive
Well-known member
You're getting yourself worked up over nothing. Your compressor is fine.
- There is no problem with the unloader - as evidenced by a video another member posted. Large compressors will unload for a while through a tiny orifice. They could dump all the air at once, but that would be very loud.
- Your pressure drop after shutdown is completely normal. Your compressor does not have an aftercooler, meaning the air going into the tank is very, very hot - especially when the compressor has been running for a while. Hot air will contract in volume when it cools.
You can even model this by the ideal gas law. Let's assume an 80 gallon tank, 175 PSI final tank pressure and 150 degree air temperature. By the time all of the air in the tank cools down to 70 degrees, the pressure inside the tank will have dropped to 152 PSI. That happens to be the exact pressure your compressor "leaked down" to.
- There is no problem with the unloader - as evidenced by a video another member posted. Large compressors will unload for a while through a tiny orifice. They could dump all the air at once, but that would be very loud.
- Your pressure drop after shutdown is completely normal. Your compressor does not have an aftercooler, meaning the air going into the tank is very, very hot - especially when the compressor has been running for a while. Hot air will contract in volume when it cools.
You can even model this by the ideal gas law. Let's assume an 80 gallon tank, 175 PSI final tank pressure and 150 degree air temperature. By the time all of the air in the tank cools down to 70 degrees, the pressure inside the tank will have dropped to 152 PSI. That happens to be the exact pressure your compressor "leaked down" to.
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OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Losing pressure overnight is not the issue. Dropping 4 to 5 psi in about 10 seconds during the unload from the cylinder head and then immediately dropping another 1 psi/minute until it's gone down a further 5 psi or so, is the issue. If we were only seeing pressure drop after 24 hours of wait, having filled a tank from empty, I'd totally agree with you. But this is happening on a compressor that has not been run for any length of time, filling from cut-in to cut-out psi and no more.
Quincy also doesn't think this immediate psi drop is normal, so I'm not sure what's so egregious about entertaining the tech visit. Even they have said that overnight cooling does not explain what we're seeing with the initial and immediate psi drop.
Also, for those wanting to crunch the math, please re-read what I wrote. The tank never was at 175 psi, because cut out is at 170. It dropped to 160 and held there, overnight. One time, it dropped a further 10 psi overnight, but that probably was temperature related. But to go from 170 to 160 in the span of a few minutes, half of which happened in the first few seconds during unload? What is the explanation for that?
If anyone has an explanation for it, feel free to shed some light on what could be causing that aspect of the issue.
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Handyandy23
Well-known member
^ Hard to find issue with the logic / science here.
If it's truly a leak then you should continue to see pressure loss over time, until you're eventually at 0. If it's just air cooling then you should see that loss over some time and then hold relatively steady.
I also agree with another poster that the tank can't be expected to be 100% air tight - if you leave it full over the course of days or weeks it will lose air. And theoretically if used properly where you drain it when not in use, the pressure loss is so minimal that it should never be an issue in the time span you'd be using it.
The only variable there is if you don't know the source of the leak it's hard to tell if it's going to get a lot worse over time. Losing 20 psi over a couple days is fine as long as it doesn't turn into 20 psi in a couple hours.
If it's truly a leak then you should continue to see pressure loss over time, until you're eventually at 0. If it's just air cooling then you should see that loss over some time and then hold relatively steady.
I also agree with another poster that the tank can't be expected to be 100% air tight - if you leave it full over the course of days or weeks it will lose air. And theoretically if used properly where you drain it when not in use, the pressure loss is so minimal that it should never be an issue in the time span you'd be using it.
The only variable there is if you don't know the source of the leak it's hard to tell if it's going to get a lot worse over time. Losing 20 psi over a couple days is fine as long as it doesn't turn into 20 psi in a couple hours.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
Losing pressure overnight is not the issue. Dropping 4 to 5 psi in about 10 seconds during the unload from the cylinder head and then immediately dropping another 1 psi/minute until it's gone down a further 5 psi or so, is the issue. If we were only seeing pressure drop after 24 hours of wait, having filled a tank from empty, I'd totally agree with you. But this is happening on a compressor that has not been run for any length of time, filling from cut-in to cut-out psi and no more.
Quincy also doesn't think this immediate psi drop is normal, so I'm not sure what's so egregious about entertaining the tech visit. Even they have said that overnight cooling does not explain what we're seeing with the initial and immediate psi drop.
If you have an explanation for it, feel free to shed some light on what could be causing that aspect of the issue.
Also hard to argue with Quincy agreeing it's not normal and offering to send a tech. If they really don't think anything is wrong they need to nut up and say so and provide some reasoning.
Otherwise get the local tech off his lazy **** to come look for himself and weigh in.
OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
As I said, will have more updates tomorrow afternoon on that front. When I have the facts, I will happily share them. In the meantime, if someone can answer my question about the immediate psi drop, not overnight changes, I'm happy to hear what might be behind that.
Fix Until Broke
Well-known member
Where is the pressure gauge located that you're seeing this immediate 10 psi drop?
For what very little it's worth it seems to me that the check valve isn't seating right away. I would expect zero tank pressure drop right after the pump stops. The temp related pressure drop is going to take a bit of time. The unloader shouldn't unload the tank pressure since the tank pressure gauge and unloader should be on opposite sides of the check valve. I can't say why I think the check valve would leak for just a few moments. Perhaps temperature related sealing after it cools a bit?
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Dropping an 80 gallon tank 5 PSI in 10 seconds would be a monstrous amount of air. That would be a blow gun at full throttle, for 10 seconds. I mean it's possible you could have a sticking check valve, but I really doubt it.
This is what I'm saying. That is completely normal for your style of compressor. The tank has a huge surface area, and will rapidly pull heat out of any air inside touching the walls of the tank. All of the air in the center of the tank will take a while to cool down. Grab the discharge line of the compressor while it's running. It will be scorching hot after less than a minute of running. Whatever temperature that pipe is, is the temperature of the air going into the tank.
A 1 psi per minute leak would be a very obvious and very audible leak.
175, 170 doesn't matter. The air inside the tank cooling down from 150 degrees to 120 degrees will result in a 10 PSI pressure drop. The air inside your tank will certainly cool that much within a span of 5-10 minutes.Also, for those wanting to crunch the math, please re-read what I wrote. The tank never was at 175 psi, because cut out is at 170. It dropped to 160 and held there, overnight. One time, it dropped a further 10 psi overnight, but that probably was temperature related. But to go from 170 to 160 in the span of a few minutes, half of which happened in the first few seconds during unload? What is the explanation for that?
If anyone has an explanation for it, feel free to shed some light on what could be causing that aspect of the issue.
At this point, Quincy is just trying to placate you. Run the compressor, fill the tank up and let it stabilize after 24 hours. I bet the pressure won't move a meaningful amount after that.
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OP
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
What I have said from the outset on this behavior.
I don't know for sure either, so I am waiting for the tech to check it out. Quincy thought it was a possibility that the check valve had an issue, and that's why (as I said earlier) they even asked the tech to bring a spare and investigate.
I don't disagree that pressure can drop overnight from temperature change (didn't I just say this a few posts up?) and I don't disagree with it stabilizing after 24 hours either. But as far as Quincy placating me, sending a tech was their idea after I described the problem and asked if it was normal operation.
I feel like a broken record, but will repeat again: I should have updates for everyone tomorrow after the tech visit, so please be patient and let's get the facts.
ZRX61
Well-known member
I have a 20 year old Devilbis Pro 4000 60gal compressor. It has a ball valve on the tank outlet. It doesn't lose ANY air when the valve is closed.
In My opinion, regardless of what anyone thinks, or what the problem is or is not, if this compressor is leaking, Quincy should be totally ashamed .
If it turns out that there is nothing wrong with the compressor, no shame to the OP, as he is for sure oversensitive right now with all that he's been through.
now, I suppose it is possible that there could be a failed part (ie check valve) that just turned up after their 2 day inspection, and even is so, the OP has valid reason to be upset.I am anxiously awaiting the outcome.
If it turns out that there is nothing wrong with the compressor, no shame to the OP, as he is for sure oversensitive right now with all that he's been through.
now, I suppose it is possible that there could be a failed part (ie check valve) that just turned up after their 2 day inspection, and even is so, the OP has valid reason to be upset.I am anxiously awaiting the outcome.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Mine is... It can be a month or more between uses, has never lost any pressure. I always flip the power off after using (so if there ever was a leak). Yes I leave a short air hose connected too.
That's my thoughts too...
Handyandy23
Well-known member
I'm sure you already know this so not trying to be the compressor police, but they do recommend you drain the tank in between uses and leave the drain **** open. When the air cools it creates moisture that sits in the bottom of the tank and can rust it out.
My compressor is in a heated garage, and even after using it for a few hours when I drain it afterwards there is quite a bit of water that comes out.
Re: pressure drops, I think it's near impossible to make anything that is 110% air tight. Even car tires you need to probably add a couple PSI once a year or so. Doesn't mean there's "a leak" but that even a very good seal isn't going to be completely perfect. If the compressor sat for months and the accuracy of the pressure gauge was dead on, I'd guess you'd see a very small drop in some way.
I had a cheapo portable 20 gallon compressor on wheels that would go from 100 psi to 0 over night. When I was using it I couldn't hear or detect any leaks, and it worked fine that way for years for any nail gun or inside work I had to do.
Just to clarify I'm not advocating that OPer should accept a substantial pressure drop over hours from a brand new compressor that he paid quite a bit of money for - I'm just saying in the grand scheme of usability of the compressor, losing a handful of PSI overnight won't hurt anything (as long as it doesn't get a lot worse). If it was a 10 year old compressor that started doing this you may not even notice, and if you did you'd shrug it off and keep using it. But being brand new and fully tested and inspected, he's (rightly) expecting something that works 100% out of the box.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
100-0 PSI overnight is a pretty big leak. A good compressor without leaks should be able to hold air for months and months without dropping an appreciable amount of pressure.
But 170 PSI > 150 PSI overnight is completely normal just from the tank cooling down.
But 170 PSI > 150 PSI overnight is completely normal just from the tank cooling down.
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This may be true for some little 'hot dog' carry-along compressor, but you'll NEVER
read where any industrial compressor manufacturer recommends draining the receiver between uses! The vast majority of condensate will occur on initial fill-up and once the compressed air has cooled to ambient temperature, that's all you'll get. The best practice (without an auto-drain) is to drain off the condensate post initial fill and after the receiver has cooled back to ambient.
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
^^^^ I concur
I have a Saylor-Beall in my back shop at home, A Champion in my garage and a Quincy at my business and all 3 hold air without leaking down.Handyandy23
Well-known member
This may be true for some little 'hot dog' carry-along compressor, but you'll NEVER
The best practice (without an auto-drain) is to drain off the condensate post initial fill and after the receiver has cooled back to ambient.
I have a 60 gallon that is a lot larger than a "little hot dog carry-along compressor" that clearly says in the manual to drain and leave the drain open when not in use. I guess I shouldn't make assumptions, but the poster I was responding to said he can go months between uses, so I'm assuming this is a home garage with a similar 60-80 gallon sized compressor. If you're not using it for weeks or months and it only takes 5 minutes to re-fill, not sure what the big gain is in leaving it full anyways. When I go to do some work I close the valve and flip it back on and by the time I have the car on the hoist it's full and ready to go.
I also worked in a shop part time in high school that had a bigger industrial sized compressor and they drained it every night (and would complain if I forgot to drain it). Not sure if that was necessary or just their preference, but again it was a few minutes every morning to fill up again, so not a huge deal.
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
There is no logical reason to completely drain down a receiver between uses. Once the accumulated condensate is drained...what are you gaining? You are just working the compressor more than is needed. If you were to just drain off the days condensate and no more, the next use will produce MUCH less condensate than if you did a complete fill once again.
Sorry for getting off topic.
Sorry for getting off topic.
dkmc
Well-known member
I for one am really glad my torch tanks, propane tanks, and other various pressure vessels around the local community do not subscribe to your theory.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Just blow off the water on the bottom of the tank. I have a ball valve that I open and when the water stops coming out of it I close it. Completely draining the tank makes no logical sense as the amount of water added from filling the entire tank will take you right back to where you started from.