R-value for pole barn

[bens]

I'm hoping to insulate before winter rolls in. What R-value should I be looking at for Indiana climate?
I found a source for 4'x9' sheets of R-10, 2" think for $5.

Seems like the best price I can find. Is that a high enough R-value? And do you see any other problems with using this?

Barn is 42'x75'. I'm hoping to insulate ceiling and walls.

 

[oldgoat]

R-10 probably isn't near enough even on the walls, but at the price it would be a good place to start at least. Depending on your budget maybe put the sheets on the sides, but make sure that you do the ceilings good since that will be where the major loss would come from. You should have a local gov service that would be able to give specific rec R values for your area. Have heard of people using insulated curtains to partition off one area also so that they are only heating that area.

 

[Franz©]

If you can get 2" board for 5 bucks a sheet, grab it quick & run fast.

There is no reason you can't double up 2" board if youcan afford it and double the insulation value.

As far as the ceiling is concerned, you can put up a 4' x 4' grid of Tbar and drop insulation panels into the grid. If you keep the grid a couple feet down from the ceiling you'll gain some R value. Many large commercial buildings have metal roof decks, and only a suspended ceiling, and they gain a lot of R value from just the trapped air. Trapped air that does not move is an insulator.

 

[neblinc]

I would highly recomend putting the reflective foil up before insulating. Made a huge difference in my shop keeping the metal panels from radiating heat into the shop in the summer sun. See my shop build link.

Randy

 

[bens]

Thanks guys. I may get 200 sheets of this and see where that gets me. I don't need this place to stay 70* all winter, but I would like to keep it above freezing and reduce the temp swings.

neblinc, For the ceiling, do you suggest I put up the thin reflective foil directly on the roof braces, then the insulation directly on top of that? I'd love to cut down on the heat, it is damned hot in there during the summer and it seems to be from the ceiling.

 

[Franz©]

If you're going to insulate the ceiling with foam you can accomplish more by painting the side facing the roof white than film will deliver.

If you insist on film, for reradiation prevention there is a seller on ePay with miles of silver mylar film fairly cheap. I bought some this summer and made reflective shades for my southfacing windows.

 

[bens]

Really? So painting the top of insulation white will accomplish as much, if not more, as putting in a layer of reflective foil? Well painting sounds easier to me. I may give that a shot, thanks.

I'm now worried that I won't see much change from using only R10.

 

[ehjorten]

If you would like to give me some rough dimensions for your building, I can calculate the required heat energy you would need. I would need the dimensions of each wall (height and width), the pitch of the roof, dimensions and what wall they are located on for any doors and windows. I can get the basic building materials from looking at the picture, also are you using typical pole-barn sliding doors? I can assume that the general geographic location is Indianapolis, but a closer region would give me a better average low temperature. Finally...I would need an estimate for what temperature you would like to heat the shop to.

What I could give you would be a rough BTU value for the heating that would be required.

If you like the idea you can PM me if you like.

 

[Steve in Mi]

I found a source for 4'x9' sheets of R-10, 2" think for $5.

Wow what a deal that is. 1 layer under the floor (oops maybe too late for that), 2 layers in the walls and 3 or 4 layers in the ceiling. Now to insure the building you will no doubt have to cover all the foam with an approved fire rated material. If the blowing agent in the foam is pentane - you will want to cover it quick once installed and store it outside until you can put it up and cover it with drywall or whatever will pass code. I see a lot more framing in your future (especially in the ceiling) to fasten all this up.

Put a plan together on what foam you will need and for sure buy it now while the price is right.

 

[bens]

Steve, Multiple layers... this is gonna cost me a fortune. And yes, too late for the floor. Is one layer even worth th effort? And I hadn't thought about covering it with a fire rated material. Thanks.

Lets say I put one layer on the walls and ceiling. You think that would help at all?

Ehjorton, PM is coming. Thanks for the offer.

 

[Steve in Mi]

Lets say I put one layer on the walls and ceiling. You think that would help at all?

I was ribbing you about under the floor but it always amazes me when fantastic buildings (like this one) get built and then it occurs to insulate it. I don't know if you built this or bought after the fact but insulating has got to be considered in the build and to me living in Michigan it is one of the most important factors affecting the build if one plans to ever heat it.

Sure a single layer is better than none and if you heat it the payback will be fairly quick. What I proposed would be my minimum recommendation for a new build based on R value (10 floor, 20 walls and 30 to 40 in the ceiling). Insulation is one of those 'pay me now or pay me later' deals. Its not only the $$$ but the comfort level, however, you might have to get to my age (64) to appreciate that aspect as I do. As someone suggested maybe you would be able to get by dividing off a portion of the shop for heating purposes.

 

[bens]

You're right Steve, insulation should have been a higher priority when I had this barn built. I wish my builder had of pushed me more on that. But I ran out of money and figured insulation could be added later.
This is the first concrete I've had poured and I apparently didn't do enough research, nor did the concrete guy suggest insulation. Live and learn.

The barn is functional now. I have room to store toys (boats, atvs, tractor) but it's often too hot or too cold to do any wood working. I may take the advice to section off a portion. I've already started putting up walls for a bathroom and bedroom, perhaps I should consider walling in a woodworking shop. gears are turning....

The next barn I build will be better planned.
Thanks for all the help guys. Keep the advice/comments/criticisms coming.

 

[Franz©]

Steve, Multiple layers... this is gonna cost me a fortune. And yes, too late for the floor. Is one layer even worth th effort?

Lets say I put one layer on the walls and ceiling. You think that would help at all?

QUOTE]

One layer is 100 times more effective than a sharp stick in the eye.

Fireproofing, what are you planning to do in the barn? I have foam on the inside of my garage door, 3/4" unprotected, and I weld 5 feet from it. The shop ceiling has 2" foam tucked between the steel purlins. If I was concerned about fire resistance I'd have painted it 10 years ago.

Sprayed sodium silicate followed by paint will provide one hell of a lot of fire protection.

 

[neblinc]

I bought the 48" rolls and started at the peak and as I unrolled, I stapled the foil to the wood pieces that the tin roofing screws into. That left me with a air gap. I also used the perforated foil for everything.
Taped all the seams with foil tape I picked up at Menard's.
Before I installed the foil, I could not even touch the steel it got so hot, after the foil, it just felt warm holding my hand over the foil.

Randy

 

[D KRAGER]

R-10 on the walls would be plenty if you just want to keep it above freezing. I'm in central IL, My dad has a building with two layers of 1/2 foil faced foam (i think around r-7 or so.) on the walls and the roof. This does the job with a little heat to keep it around 40-45 deg. So even your r-10 on the roof would be ok, but don't think you are going to work out there in your tee shirt.