R32 vs410a

[Jackfre]

Introducing mini-split using 410a in the early ‘00’s was a challenge. We do get to like what we like so having different characteristics and much higher operating pressures with 410a over R22 was a challenge. I heard from a fellow who has a new 32 mini-split in his place andd it is handling the super low temps most arre dealing with around the country very well. Here is a short comparison:

R32 vs R410A Refrigerant: Which One is Better?

Discover the key differences between R32 vs R410A refrigerants. Learn about cooling efficiency, safety, and which refrigerant is best for your HVAC system.

royalrefrigerants.com

 

[fitter30]

R410 is a obsolete refrigerant and will only go up in price as supply dwindles. Like R 32 better than R454. Equipment made today the charge is critical there is no topping the charge off it has to be correct. Especially vrf system. System short has to reclaimed, vacuum and charge weighed in.

 

[PoorUB]

Introducing mini-split using 410a in the early ‘00’s was a challenge. We do get to like what we like so having different characteristics and much higher operating pressures with 410a over R22 was a challenge. I heard from a fellow who has a new 32 mini-split in his place andd it is handling the super low temps most arre dealing with around the country very well. Here is a short comparison:

R32 vs R410A Refrigerant: Which One is Better?

Discover the key differences between R32 vs R410A refrigerants. Learn about cooling efficiency, safety, and which refrigerant is best for your HVAC system.

royalrefrigerants.com

R410 is a obsolete refrigerant and will only go up in price as supply dwindles. Like R 32 better than R454. Equipment made today the charge is critical there is no topping the charge off it has to be correct. Especially vrf system. System short has to reclaimed, vacuum and charge weighed in.

I agree, why the comparison?

May as well toss R22 in there too as you can not buy R410, or R22 equipment, at least here in the USA.

 

[fitter30]

I agree, why the comparison?

May as well toss R22 in there too as you can not buy R410, or R22 equipment, at least here in the USA.

Post 1 asked. Your old if you remember Carine 7. I'm that old.

 

[PoorUB]

Carine 7

I have seen old commercial units still alive in the field with it and the wholesaler I worked for had a couple jugs of it on the shelf. They were very dusty!

 

[reader2580]

Has the availability of R454b increased? The price of R454b was sky high, and very hard to get in jugs. Equipment manufacturers are/were putting extra R454b in condensing units so installers didn’t need to add as much refrigerant.

 

[C2F]

If I had the choice, I’d buy R-32 equipment over R-454B.

R-454B was mainly developed so manufacturers wouldn’t have to completely redesign equipment when moving away from R-410A. It’s about 69% R-32 and 31% R-1234yf, blended to behave similarly to 410A.

R-32 isn’t new — it’s already one of the two components in R-410A (the other being R-125, which suppresses flammability and is even used as a clean-agent fire suppressant). On its own, R-32 is A2L mildly flammable, just like R-454B.

From a performance standpoint, R-32 generally shows slightly better efficiency than R-454B, depending on the equipment design.

My bigger concern with R-454B is the R-1234yf component. It’s the same refrigerant used in automotive A/C, and when it breaks down it can form TFA, a very persistent “forever chemical” that returns to the ground through rain. Because of that, I wouldn’t be surprised if blends relying on 1234yf face tighter regulations down the road.

Bottom line: both work, but R-32 is simpler, slightly more efficient, and likely the safer long-term choice.

 

[Ohmthis]

If I had the choice, I’d buy R-32 equipment over R-454B.

R-454B was mainly developed so manufacturers wouldn’t have to completely redesign equipment when moving away from R-410A. It’s about 69% R-32 and 31% R-1234yf, blended to behave similarly to 410A.

R-32 isn’t new — it’s already one of the two components in R-410A (the other being R-125, which suppresses flammability and is even used as a clean-agent fire suppressant). On its own, R-32 is A2L mildly flammable, just like R-454B.

From a performance standpoint, R-32 generally shows slightly better efficiency than R-454B, depending on the equipment design.

My bigger concern with R-454B is the R-1234yf component. It’s the same refrigerant used in automotive A/C, and when it breaks down it can form TFA, a very persistent “forever chemical” that returns to the ground through rain. Because of that, I wouldn’t be surprised if blends relying on 1234yf face tighter regulations down the road.

Bottom line: both work, but R-32 is simpler, slightly more efficient, and likely the safer long-term choice.

When I heard that there would be different refrigerants, I was questioning why? I wanted to know why different manufacturers would use different refrigerant instead of a universal use of one. As a tech/contractor, you invest in your career. To have to keep multiple different parts, tools, refrigerants, etc is hectic. I don’t have a preference, but do feel like the market for the refrigerant manufacturers get to artificially set the price. It’s been hard to find jugs of either. Wholesale prices are around $300-$350 here for either. I can get 410 $100 cheaper and that’s being phased out. I just wished they had picked one and everyone would use it!

 

[Dagny]

I'm in the trade and it is obvious they are all crooks and are all in on it. New refrigerant and all new equipment every 10 years.

 

[Ohmthis]

Typically the EU (European Union) pushes certain environmental policies and the US follows suit. If manufacturers could keep the same equipment, they would. The longer the model stays in manufacturing, the more profitable it is. R&D costs money! If the regulations or market doesn’t push change, there won’t be any. No matter what it costs the contractor, they will continue to be in business. It’s the consumer that ultimately pays for it. Heat and air isn’t a luxury item, it’s now a necessity.

 

[Mr onetwo]

now you know

 

[bonneyman]

I'm in the trade and it is obvious they are all crooks and are all in on it. New refrigerant and all new equipment every 10 years.

I agree. It's all about money and control.
Funny how you never hear about legislators complaining about the air conditioning!

 

[pcmeiners]

Funny how you never hear about legislators complaining about the air conditioning!

The lobbyists take care of that.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

When I heard that there would be different refrigerants, I was questioning why? I wanted to know why different manufacturers would use different refrigerant instead of a universal use of one. As a tech/contractor, you invest in your career. To have to keep multiple different parts, tools, refrigerants, etc is hectic. I don’t have a preference, but do feel like the market for the refrigerant manufacturers get to artificially set the price. It’s been hard to find jugs of either. Wholesale prices are around $300-$350 here for either. I can get 410 $100 cheaper and that’s being phased out. I just wished they had picked one and everyone would use it!

The refrigerant treadmill is a scam perpetuated by chemical megacorporations. They continuously create new refrigerants and either patent them, or they tool up one of the only production lines in the world to make a new refrigerant, then make that refrigerant mandatory by corrupting industry groups and government. Once the refrigerant is mandatory, they can milk monopolistic profits for about 10 years until the patents expire or competitors tool up production lines to eat into their profits, then they repeat the process by transitioning the industry to another, slightly different refrigerant.

Back on topic, R32 is obviously superior, and that's what Japan standardized on long ago. R454b only exists for the reason above: so certain companies can make corrupt profits. In fact R454B is mostly R32 anyway.

On technical grounds, there is no reason we shouldn't be using R290. Oh, there's a reason: R290 is propane, which is dirt cheap, has zero ozone impact, has practically zero global warming impact, but it can't be patented.

 

[finn]

Haven’t read any tinfoil conspiracy theories for a couple of weeks now.

Glad to see we’re back on track.

 

[Snapped-off]

I'm glad I have plenty of 410 Freon at work. Should be good until the A2Ls are banned and something new comes out.