Raceway around perimeter inside shop

[bronc076]

In the shop I'm having built I do not want electrical in the walls. Everything will be surface mounted including the panel. The walls will be 2x6 studs and covered in plywood, after it's finished I don't want to ever go in them again. I'd like to run some type of trough or raceway along the wall about a foot below the ceiling. Anyplace I want an outlet be it 120 or 240 I can pull a hole in the raceway and run a piece of thinwall down to the box. I'll run a 2" conduit from the panel up to the trough. This will make changes in the future quite easy.

I'm not sure what products if any are available for this. If I'm completely wrong here what is a good way to run power around the walls of the shop like this that will make it easy to change in the future and look tidy. A horizontal conduit around the ceiling would be difficult to splice into in the future.

Thanks!

 

[The Cobbler]

A horizontal conduit around the ceiling would be difficult to splice into in the future.

boxes every 5' or whatever you desire with a complete loop around the shop is easily done at the time of install, and gives lots of flexibility down the road

 

[bronc076]

That may be the way to go as this stuff is pricy!

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.co..._mTfp0pvtSgNoOoWfYZfYZ-hHdoXecxBoCVAcQAvD_BwE

this is more sensibly sized.

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/Austin-Ab-22120Hwk-2-5X2-5X120-Hc-Wwy/6310875

 

[W-Cummins]

Conduit will get you into de-rating fast.. The wireway can have 30 current carrying conductors before you have to de rate it. Also the larger sizes have dividers you can add to it and by my thinking you will get 2X or 60 wires that way or more with more dividers. Your millage may vary depending on the inspectors reading of the rules... The down side is it's $$$ you can also get the non hinged stuff and w/o the knockouts and just drill or punch it for your drops for less $$


William....

 

[bronc076]

I live in the county where there is no formal inspection process, so my process is posting pictures of what I do here on GJ and letting you guys tear it to shreds, then I fix what needs fixing!

 

[paulw314]

I did a wrap of 4000 wiremold all the way around the shop under the windows. Best money I ever spent!! Adding circuits, reconfiguring stuff, moving tools just requires popping off the appropriate covers and making the change.

 

[niget2002]

Dang it. Read the title and waa hoping for something involving hot wheels tracks.

 

[alfredeneuman]

That may be the way to go as this stuff is pricy
this is more sensibly sized.

Both are hinged cover. Screw cover wireways are more economical.

 

[bronc076]

4000 wiremold

Nice looking setup, I will definitely research this product. Thanks!

 

[LXCam]

Gutter’s the only way to go. I’d suggest 4”x 4” with no knockouts. Here’s a project I’m just putting a bow on for the same concept. But there’s 450ft of it 16ft in the air

 

[alfredeneuman]

No derating due to the number of conductors in a metallic wireway is necessary until 30 in the same cross-section. Above 30 the conductors will be rated at 40% of the 90 degree ampacity.

 

[72Anthony]

Depending on how sure you are of you layout and usage, I would plan for placing your initial "core" electric in the wall. This keeps things tidy and your walls clear. You still want to be a little generous to allow for future needs, changes, etc.

This could be general use 120V outlets every 4-6 feet, either alternating circuits or using 2 gang boxes with 2 circuits.

Hardwired plug mold above workbenchs/counters or under upper cabinets.

Dedicated 120V and 240V circuits for known machine locations. Some additional 240V circuits for future needs.

120V and 240V circuits in the ceiling for retracable cord reels or drops to machinery.

Then plan for some type of future expansion. This could be something like conduit runs at the ceiling that tie into 6x6 junction boxes every 10 feet or so. As others have mentioned you have to be aware of derating when you have multiple circuits in a single conduit. The junction boxes would allow you to pull wire to the general vicinity, then run surface conduit for that particular circuit to the exact location.

You could even run in wall conduit from your panel to junction boxes on other walls before you cover your walls to allow for future expansion.

A perimeter run of wiremold, like Paul did, sounds like the way to go unless you have a huge shop.

 

[Shiftless]

Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee yet, but with that plan, do you “home run” new wire in the trough or raceway every time you add one new receptacle?
If you want to hang a lighted sign somewhere, you make a new run all the way back to the panel and have a dedicated circuit for just a couple of watts?

 

[acer66]

boxes every 5' or whatever you desire with a complete loop around the shop is easily done at the time of install, and gives lots of flexibility down the road

This is what I did and the only thing I would do different is use 1” emt instead of the 3/4” I used for the loop.

Not that will be most likely needed but I liked the idea of the loop being the biggest conduit visually.

But I also did not had a 1” bender at the time.

 

[beltfeed]

This is what I did and the only thing I would do different is use 1” emt instead of the 3/4” I used for the loop.

Not that will be most likely needed but I liked the idea of the loop being the biggest conduit visually.

But I also did not had a 1” bender at the time.

I don't think using larger emt conduit raises the amount of allowable current carrying conductors. I'm pretty sure per NEC rules you have to derate after 3 current carrying conductors regardless of conduit size. Others on here may be able to clarify this better. I am not a real electrician.

 

[paulw314]

When planning the shop, I considered many of the points that 72Anthony raised above.

Since the lighting was unlikely to move, I put the switches in the wall and wiring above the ceiling.

I ran underfloor conduits to major tool locations and assembly bench locations to avoid extension cords or ceiling drops (which can get in the way). I oversized the conduits 1 1/2" for the main run to the breaker panel and 1" for the outlying runs. A minimal cost increase for a major increase in future capability.

I put 50A 240V receptacle in the wall for a drum sander. (a direct run was substantially shorter than running around the shop in the raceway and it was a single dedicated outlet which was unlikely to change)

I was going to go with plugmold in key locations and then I found the 4000 wiremold. There were several features of the 4000 that I really liked. I could put devices anywhere, change circuit configuration at will, de-rating was not an issue, I could divide the raceway into to 2 separate compartments & still have plenty of wire capacity. I originally planned for power and devices in the top half with low voltage in the bottom half.

The shop was finished almost 20 years ago. The wiremold wrap has been very helpful on several occasions.

When I added a CNC router that needed 3 phase circuits for the router and vacuum pump, I was able to shorten a section of raceway, add a tee, and use the bottom 1/2 of the existing raceway for 3 phase wiring. First pic attached.

When I ran out of outlets on the bench due to too many battery chargers, I was able to readily add 2 more duplexes at each side of the window. Second pic attached. While doing this retrofit, I ended up adding more duplexes to the entire shop.

 

[walta]

I put a lot of Wiremold 4000 in my shop.

I got most of it from eBay for 25% of list pricing.

The truth is in 7 years I have not reconfigured anything and conduit would have been much less money.

Walta

 

[acer66]

I don't think using larger emt conduit raises the amount of allowable current carrying conductors. I'm pretty sure per NEC rules you have to derate after 3 current carrying conductors regardless of conduit size. Others on here may be able to clarify this better. I am not a real electrician.

I would do it mainly for the visual effect but that you for the reminder.

Come to think about maybe I should do two loops next time.

 

[cannuck]

for OP's situation wiremold seems ideal. Personally I am spoiled working around industrial open cable trays and would like to do next shop that way. Current one (electrical pun) is all surface mount in EMT.

 

[dscheidt]

I don't think using larger emt conduit raises the amount of allowable current carrying conductors. I'm pretty sure per NEC rules you have to derate after 3 current carrying conduits regardless of conduit size. Others on here may be able to clarify this better. I am not a real electrician.

It doesn't, but it lets you add wires more easily. It can be a real pain to get another pair of wires into a conduit, even if it's not at max fill. It's not uncomomon to jsut run new conduit, rather than get the last two possible wires in existing.

Also, thhn-2, in 10 through 14 AWG, has a higher ampacity capacity than what you're allowed to use for a breaker protecting it. that means that when you derate it, you end up with it rated the same as the allowable breaker, at least through 9 current carrying conductors, so no real change for most loads. It's also worth pointing out that a MWBC circuit uses three wires, but the neutral is not classed as a current carrying conductor. That also increases what you can put in the conduit, as you only need a single current carrying conductor for a 120V circuit.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It start at 3 conductors.
Don't include the ground to determine the number of conductors. Only count the neutral when it serves a single circuit
4-7@80%, 7-9@70%, 10-20@50%, 21-30@45%, 31-40@40%, 41 and above @ 35%.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Also, thhn-2, in 10 through 14 AWG, has a higher ampacity capacity than what you're allowed to use for a breaker protecting it.

The only cases where you're allowed to have a bigger breaker than wire size is on motors and hardwired A/C.

 

[beltfeed]

It doesn't, but it lets you add wires more easily. It can be a real pain to get another pair of wires into a conduit, even if it's not at max fill. It's not uncomomon to jsut run new conduit, rather than get the last two possible wires in existing.

Also, thhn-2, in 10 through 14 AWG, has a higher ampacity capacity than what you're allowed to use for a breaker protecting it. that means that when you derate it, you end up with it rated the same as the allowable breaker, at least through 9 current carrying conductors, so no real change for most loads. It's also worth pointing out that a MWBC circuit uses three wires, but the neutral is not classed as a current carrying conductor. That also increases what you can put in the conduit, as you only need a single current carrying conductor for a 120V circuit.

This is where it gets confusing. Some say the neutral (white) in a 120 VAC counts as a current carrying conductor also.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What is a Current-Carrying Conductor?

Remember, Table 310.15(C)(1) applies only to current-carrying conductors and NOT every conductor is a current-carrying conductor.

This White Grounded Conductor is a Current-Carrying Conductor

Section 310.15(F) states that a grounding or bonding conductor (typically bare or green in color) is never counted as a current-carrying conductor. However, Section 310.15(E) states that the white grounded (neutral) conductor IS a current-carrying conductor if it carries all of the current (amps) in the circuit, such as a two-wire 120-volt circuit serving a lighting fixture. But when the white grounded conductor is serving as a neutral conductor, where it only carries the unbalanced load between two phase conductors serving the same load, it is not a current carrying conductor. The electrician should study Section 310.15(E) to become familiar with the rules for a neutral conductor installed in a conduit.

 

[dscheidt]

The only cases where you're allowed to have a bigger breaker than wire size is on motors and hardwired A/C.

See table 310.15<something>. The ampacity of the wire is used for calculating derating, either for conduit fill, or ambient temperature. For instance thhn-2 has a 90C rating of 25 amps. But article 240 something restricts it to a 15 amp breaker (except for motors and a/c compressors, as you note.)

This is where it gets confusing. Some say the neutral (white) in a 120 VAC counts as a current carrying conductor also.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There's no dispute. a neutral in a 120V circuit is a current carrying conductor. But a MWBC isn't a 120V circuit. It's a 240V circuit, used as two 120V ones. the neutral carries the imbalance between the two sides. To see why that makes sense, consider the case where one side has a 20A load, and the other has 0. That hot will have 20A flowing through, the other hot will have 0, and the neutral 20. So, two current carrying conductors. When both sides are loaded to 20A, the neutral has 0, and the hots 20. Again, two current carrying conductors. When one side is loaded to 20A, and the other to 10, one hot is carrying 20A, the other 10A, and the neutral 10A.

 

[bronc076]

Scored 220' of 2nd hand wireway on marketplace today for dirt cheap. It's in good shape, most of the pieces still have all the knockouts and some couplings. It's dirty but will clean up and be fine. Way more than I need.

I get a little crazy with the ratchet straps!

 

[CJ7VFR]

I put a lot of Wiremold 4000 in my shop.

I got most of it from eBay for 25% of list pricing.

The truth is in 7 years I have not reconfigured anything and conduit would have been much less money.

Walta

My father used to tell me buy once, cry once, when you are dealing with stuff like this.

Your configuration looks fantastic and is very clean and professional. Even though you never added or changed anything in the 7 years since you installed everything, the fact that you can make changes or additions, easily and fast, is worth the extra cost at the beginning.

You didn't know 7 years ago that you wouldn't have made any changes by now. You were looking towards the future when you chose the way you installed your electric feed around your shop. I think it was the right thing to do in my opinion as you thought hey, maybe I might want to add a receptacle here or there down the road.

And who knows, maybe 7 years from now you might bring home a new piece of equipment for your shop and you will add in a receptacle for it and you will think to yourself thank God I went with the Wiremold and not conduit!

Jim

 

[bronc076]

When running circuits in wireway is it acceptable to bundle the circuits with small zip ties or some other method or should it just be the wires laying in the trough? Might be easier for me to identify circuits in the future if I have to remove or relocate something But if it's a nono I won't do it.

Also using this wireway does it meet the requirement as the ground like emt or will I need to run a ground wire? I'm leaning towards a ground wire because of all the joints between sections of wireway. I'll do a good job screwing this all together and am running emt from the wireway to metal boxes surface mounted on the walls as well as to the panel.

thanks!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would use tape to ID conductors of a circuit not zip ties

 

[mm08822]

When running circuits in wireway is it acceptable to bundle the circuits with small zip ties or some other method or should it just be the wires laying in the trough? Might be easier for me to identify circuits in the future if I have to remove or relocate something But if it's a nono I won't do it.

Also using this wireway does it meet the requirement as the ground like emt or will I need to run a ground wire? I'm leaning towards a ground wire because of all the joints between sections of wireway. I'll do a good job screwing this all together and am running emt from the wireway to metal boxes surface mounted on the walls as well as to the panel.

thanks!

If you are using the mfr's coupling brackets with the specified # of nuts/bolts, then no extra grd wire needed. Adding one won't hurt, but should then be sized according to largest ckt in trough.

 

[mm08822]

I would use tape to ID conductors of a circuit not zip ties

And any colored tape being better than black gooey vinyl.

 

[bronc076]

Thanks guys. I typically use scotch super 33 electrical tape. Not sure what I would use that would not leave a gooey spot after time.

 

[Nashcat]

Might be easier for me to identify circuits in the future if I have to remove or relocate something

I would suggest printed wire labels, available at Lowe’s or Home Depot.