Radiant Floor From Blue Ridge Co

[njbadboy]

Hey everyone, I hoping to put concrete within two weeks for a 30'X32'pole barn. I will be laying fiberglass door cutouts as insulation (1") over crushed concrete, and looking into radiant floor heat.

I gotten a quote from Radint Floor Company, and while doing some shopping around I came across "PEXSupply" and "Blue Ridge Co." I am just looking into installing the tubing for now.

Is there a special pex tubing I need for in floor heat for concrete lab on grade, there seems to be severa differnt types, AL,XL,Oxygen barrier, etc.

I also noticed a pole barn package from Blue Ridge that includes:

1000 square foot package - 12" pattern

2) 58-500USA pex pipe
1) 2 Port High Flow manifold (HF-2)
4) 5/8" manifold adapters (A187-5/8B)
4) Polymer elbows (23051)
1) Pressure test kit (PT M)
1) Wire ties (WT-6-1000)
1) Wire tie tool
1) Pipe cutter

FREE SHIPPING (*Continental US)
$547.97

Does or has anyone used this company or product? Seems in-expensive.

Thanks for any/all help in advance.

Jeff

 

[sneezer41]

Barrier pex only, pex/al/pex is barrier also, but usually more money.

I have bought from pexsupply and had no problems

 

[Friartuck]

I too would recommend pexsupply.com for all radiant supply needs including PEX, the heat source, and manifolds.

How are you insulating the perimeter around the raised walls of the pole barn? That is just as important as under the slab.

IMHO, the design is important and number of times crossing over the expansion joint should be considered and minimized. Attached is one design that does that and keeps the lengths nearly equal (within 10 percent).

Is multiple shorter loops better than less longer ones??

Pexsupply packages for 1000 SQ ft all use 1/2 PEX, not 5/8.

 

[njbadboy]

I have also insulated the sides of the barn, below and above the slab. So as long as I use Oxygen Barrier Pex, I'll be fine then. AL, XL,etc, whatever they are is up to my preference then?

I still have to work on my diagram layout. Does Pex Supply offer help in the diagram layout?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[tdkkart]

I bought 99% of my system from Blue Ridge, just finished my 3rd heating season with no issues.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

You want to start with a proper heat load. Both companies recommend tank-less water heaters for radiant floor heating.

We are professional plumbing and mechanical contractors specializing in radiant floor heating here in Edina, MN. We will not use a tankless water heater for dedicated space heating (even where allowed).

Both companies also sell Chinese, Canadian and US made PEX. 1/2" barrier PEX is radiant floor tube in most applications. We like US and Canadian pipe.

PEX-AL-PEX pipe, like 5/8 ID pipe is for professionals only.

Note that the drawing shows the tube going around expansion joints. We use rebar at any point of possible shear and make installation a lot easier.

 

[Friartuck]

We will not use a tankless water heater for dedicated space heating (even where allowed).

This statement begs the question as to what you would recommend for a heat source?

Note that the drawing shows the tube going around expansion joints.

The dashed line bisecting the slab represents the expansion joint. How is that "going around it"??

IMHO we can learn alot by sharing ideas, techniques, and methods, so these questions are appropriate for all.

 

[koditten]

BBM may come across a bit terse, but he does know what he's talking about. If I was to hazard a guess, the reason is he sees the same questions asked year after year.

As for the heat source. Boiler is in the screen name. I have to agree. Why would you use anything else for your heat source. Boilers are designed to heat water continuously. And nothing does it better.

I you get your energy balance and know what you need for BTU's, then the choice of boiler and controls should be your next question.

I used a boiler for my detached shop. Could not be happier. You will never think to youirself "I wonder if there is anything better than my boiler for heating the shop?" There isn't.

The next step will be what you want for controls. There are lots of them. I come from the old school way of thinking. Shops are never going to be as efficient as a home. I wasn't too conscerned with having a hi-end, super efficient boiler form my shop. I wanted simple and reliable. I went with a standing pilot boiler. There is not alot that can go wrong with them and they are easy to fix. This is just my preference. You can go as hi-tech as you want when it comes to boilers and controls.

By the way, I tried the tankless water heater route. They are not quite there for making it simple for a DIYer.

I foulnd my boiler on CL. It came out of a home that was getting forced air so the new homeowners could have central air. Saved a **** load of coin.

KO

 

[Highbeam]

You, the OP, said this:

"I am just looking into installing the tubing for now"

So just buy tubing for now. You will need one LF per SF with 1/2" barrier pex at 12" spacing. No heat load calc is required, that is part of the boiler calculation. Buy extra of course to allow for routing the pipes to the central manifold.

I bought my tubing only and used oxygen barrier pex. Installed it directly onto wire mesh with zip ties. Lay the matts of mesh down on top of the foam insulation and you will have an instant grid of 6" squares that make an excellent guide for proper spacing.

I have noticed that the only people thinking you need a heat load calc at the tube laying stage are those that plan to charge you for it.

 

[njbadboy]

I was planning on putting down 3/4" pex with oxygen barrier; however when I went to the resource center (calculator for pex supply) they say I need 960 ft of tubing. I foudn another calculator that takes the sq ft of the building (960) x .75 (16" spacing of pex) and calls for 720 ft of pex tubing.

Quite a difference, would have to order another roll of the pex tubing.....

Any help would be appreciated....

Jeff

 

[Highbeam]

You will find that most installations use 1/2" pex at 12" spacing with each loop being under 300 feet and within 10% of each other.

Why reinvent the wheel? Have you looked through the example threads and write ups on this site?

 

[wedge40]

You, the OP, said this:

"I am just looking into installing the tubing for now"

So just buy tubing for now. You will need one LF per SF with 1/2" barrier pex at 12" spacing. No heat load calc is required, that is part of the boiler calculation. Buy extra of course to allow for routing the pipes to the central manifold.

I bought my tubing only and used oxygen barrier pex. Installed it directly onto wire mesh with zip ties. Lay the matts of mesh down on top of the foam insulation and you will have an instant grid of 6" squares that make an excellent guide for proper spacing.

I have noticed that the only people thinking you need a heat load calc at the tube laying stage are those that plan to charge you for it.

I'm in the same boat right now.. All I want is someone to layout the tubing for me.
If anybody asks about a heat load calc, I'll tell them that I plan on having 6" of spary foam in the walls and 36" of fiberglass in the ceiling.. I'll have the building so tight that if you slam the door shut you'll pop your ears. Oh I know it will be somewhere between what I decribed above and nothing.

I would also like to find someplace that offers the transitions from the cement to the wall.

Wedge

 

[sneezer41]

Its a garage, don't worry about the fine points of load calcs, or little areas that don't have tube. I think I would run it on 12 inch centers rather than 16, the tube is pretty cheap[compared to everything else]. You 'cannot' have too much tube. Too little means you have to up the water temp which can cause you problems.

Houses are much more complex, you don't want temp swings from running too high water temp, or temp to drop at 3 AM, or floors to hot or too cold.

 

[matouse3]

I just purchased my manifold and 1/2in PEX from blueridge along with a rental of a foam board stapler. I shopped around and found that they had the best price and all the products were great. I just installed the gear on Tuesday and it all checked out great and went together fine. The stapler was well worth it for the rental.
I purchased the package deal, but didn't use the pipe bends as I put the lines through conduit elbows for more protection of the pipe once its in the cement.
Blueridge offers US made PEX, made in OH. Its the same price you just need to ask for it.
A picture of my layout is here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138758

 

[matouse3]

Oh yeah, I ran 6" spacing on the outside walls (first two lines) and then 12" from there to the inside.

 

[njbadboy]

Yeah, I put everything on hold last week and ordered the 900sq ft pole barn package from Blue Ridge Company as well.

In speaking with them and two other suppliers, all recommended 1/2" pex tubing and said that the 3/4" was overkill for my application. I also will space 6" off the outside walls, then 12" spacing from there.

I'm also going to pickup some 1" foam board from Lowes, Greenguard XPS 25 PSI for $15 each, giving me a R5.

Attached is the loop diagram designed by Blue Ridge Co.

Will be back to work on it after holiday weekend....enjoy the weekend.

 

[matouse3]

Menards was running a deal on 2" XPS for $20. That stuff worked great and I never thought for a second that I would break a piece. Just a thought in case you haven't purchased yet.
I took the ad to Home Depot and they honored the price PLUS gave me 10% more off. You have to ask for the 10%, but they will give it to you. That knocked my price down to $18 and change per sheet for the 2".

 

[jg15237]

Re: Radiant Floor

I'm getting ready to start building and would like to do radiant for the zone capabilities. Anyone ever use Radiantec? They recommend the Polaris hotwater tank but I would prefer to use a high efficiency boiler. I was told that if I went this route, I would jave to go with the oxygen barrier PEX to prevent problems. Any thoughts?

 

[matouse3]

All the PEX I got from BlueRidge had an O2 barrier. I'm pretty sure that any PEX you plan to use in a radiant application should have this.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, always barrier pex for heating.

Dang, the blueridge guys have a sweet deal on those tube packages with manifold. The manifolds look great and cost nearly 200$ alone. Makes the tube cheap.

 

[matouse3]

They had the best deal I could find. The kits come with the pressure test kit, bends, cutter--everything that you need to get the pipe in the floor and pressurized in the lines for the pour. I haven't purchased any of the the heating elements to the system yet, but I wanted to have the option available.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Dedicated radiant floor software accomplishes many important things at once. First, the heat load that helps you decide on the heat source. Then the tube size, pattern, length and along with this the design water temperature and minimum flow.

Even if you use a tankless water heater (not recommended) you will have to know to what temperature you will set it. We use Polaris and other condensing water heaters for some of our designs but don't always agree with the people that sell them on line.

Most will benefit from a condensing boiler properly sized to the load.

People who advocate heat loads (weather they charge for them outright or build the cost into there package) distinguish themselves from those who will be glad to spend your money on hearsay.

 

[shafif]

Do local municipal inspectors generally want an owner to get a plumbing permit for installing the tubing before a slab is poured? The slab in my town also requires a permit, but wondering if I need 2 to cover the tubing.