Radiant heat transfer plates

[Junkman]

I am moving ahead with the radiant heat, and I am now researching the type of heat exchange plates to use. Most of what I have found are just aluminum stamping with a channel for the PEX tubing to be place in. I did find one that is an extruded plate, and it looks a lot better than most that I have come across. It is made by Radiant Engineering, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this product. Also, if you have experience with another brand, please post your reviews, good or bad, so I have something to compare to. Thanks Junk

 

[86turbodsl]

Are you going to be installing radiant below a wooden floor? That's the only reason you would need transfer plates. If this is going in a concrete shop floor, you don't need them.

 

[Junkman]

They are going under the existing wood floor. Thirty five years ago, when I built my shop, radiant heat was not well accepted, nor was much known about it. Had a relative that had radiant heat in the driveway, home walls, and ceiling, but not under the floor. Back then, it was all hard copper sweated. They had to paint every year, because after one heating season, the outline of the pipes would show as dirt on the walls. That home was built in 1958, and he was a home builder, so cost wasn't a factor either. Cheap oil and money to waste.
In 1961, he set up a factory to built roof trusses, and I worked there one summer swinging a hammer. Later on, it became more mechanized, and they were a lot faster. Back then, everything was cut by hand and also nailed by hand.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ok. I have the stampings in my floors and they work fine. I dont think the extrusions buy you anything.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Thin plates can improve heat transfer depending on the application and installation. Extruded plates improve heat transfer by 175%. The right program can predict how much.

Radiant Engineering was the original, there are many copies. Rauplate is another we like to use in clear joist bays.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

OK,

When I installed pex under the breezeway floor to my garage, I was told that all I had to do was staple up loops under the subfloor (between the joists) and insulate with fiberglass batts under that.

The breezway zone would not hold temperature during the winter. The zone pump ran all the time.

So...I went back and installed plates pretty much exactly like you propose.

It was better (by a lot) but still not great.

So...better than nothing...but not ideal. If I had it to do over, I'd go with litecrete or similar on top of the subfloor with the loops in that.

Realize that may not be an option for you at this point.

Good luck!

Phil

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

We use Wrightsoft to determine the heat load and specify the right system before we start.

Without the heat load you are just guessing.

 

[ishiboo]

They are going under the existing wood floor. Thirty five years ago, when I built my shop, radiant heat was not well accepted, nor was much known about it. Had a relative that had radiant heat in the driveway, home walls, and ceiling, but not under the floor. Back then, it was all hard copper sweated. They had to paint every year, because after one heating season, the outline of the pipes would show as dirt on the walls. That home was built in 1958, and he was a home builder, so cost wasn't a factor either. Cheap oil and money to waste.
In 1961, he set up a factory to built roof trusses, and I worked there one summer swinging a hammer. Later on, it became more mechanized, and they were a lot faster. Back then, everything was cut by hand and also nailed by hand.

They didn't know heat rises back then?

 

[Junkman]

I have since learned why they didn't put the radiant in the floors. Back in the 1960's, they had no reliable way to regulate the temperature of the water, and the systems used the boiler temperature water. That would have made the floors extremely hot, hence only using it in the walls and ceiling.

 

[Firebrick43]

Thin plates can improve heat transfer depending on the application and installation. Extruded plates improve heat transfer by 175%. The right program can predict how much.

Radiant Engineering was the original, there are many copies. Rauplate is another we like to use in clear joist bays.

Is 175% over thin sheet or over no plates at all?

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

They didn't know heat rises back then?

They couldn't know, since heat does not rise. Warm air does rise however.

Heat, like the rays of the sun, travels in a straight line at the speed of light.

If the radiant energy is absorbed by a material the air close to the heated object will convect and rise.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

I have since learned why they didn't put the radiant in the floors. Back in the 1960's, they had no reliable way to regulate the temperature of the water, and the systems used the boiler temperature water. That would have made the floors extremely hot, hence only using it in the walls and ceiling.

Frank Lloyd Wright was using steel and copper pipe in slabs starting in the late 30's.

Mixing valves were used but the science was new and much ignored. Not so different from today.

http://www.oldhouseonline.com/a-look-at-radiant-heating-systems/

 

[rlitman]

I have since learned why they didn't put the radiant in the floors. Back in the 1960's, they had no reliable way to regulate the temperature of the water, and the systems used the boiler temperature water. That would have made the floors extremely hot, hence only using it in the walls and ceiling.

The systems I am familiar with used copper pipe in slab. It was a standard in Levitt homes, and was a spectacular failure. The copper would wear through due to scouring and leak, or crust shut and stop flow completely. When it did work, the uninsulated slab would heat the dirt around the house, so that people noticed that their annual flowers in the beds next to the house would still be blooming with snow on the ground elsewhere.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

The systems I am familiar with used copper pipe in slab. It was a standard in Levitt homes, and was a spectacular failure. The copper would wear through due to scouring and leak, or crust shut and stop flow completely. When it did work, the uninsulated slab would heat the dirt around the house, so that people noticed that their annual flowers in the beds next to the house would still be blooming with snow on the ground elsewhere.

But, some are still in operation. Like many of FLW homes, many of which I have personally worked on, much has to do with the installer and the homeowner. The best systems will die from neglect.

Many of the systems have worked on used steel pipe and others buried copper in the sand just below the slab. With perimeter insulation in mild climates the systems work fine. With a new ModCon boiler and built-in outdoor reset, you have heaven for feet.

 

[Kaizen]

junk assuming you are putting in the basement not really any difference. plates just increase surface area to heat. have fun that project *****. I've spilt lots of blood doing a few rooms in my house.