Having a 20x20 detatched garage built about 200' from my house. Was considering having the pex put into my slab so I could add a electric water heater at a later time if I feel the need. However, I found a Fahrenheat 5000 watt electric heater for $250 with good reviews. Seems like the electric heater would be quicker to heat the space, albeit not the floor. Since I may only store my lawn & garden equipment in here (considering a car too), I am leaning toward the Fahrenheat. Any opposing opinions to this?
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Radiant vs Forced Air New Construction
- Thread starter ilaudio
- Start date
koditten
Well-known member
Weather you do radiant in the floor or not, you still should put foam board under the pad. If you are going to the trouble of doing it right, you might as well put in the pex. It costs little.
Who knows what the future will bring, it may be where you will be spending a lot of time and warm floors make a huge difference.
My shop is kept . At 50 degrees. 50 feels awesome when it is zero outside.
Who knows what the future will bring, it may be where you will be spending a lot of time and warm floors make a huge difference.
My shop is kept . At 50 degrees. 50 feels awesome when it is zero outside.
Fueler
Well-known member
Time for a come to Jesus meeting with yourself on it's intended use.
1: IF it is storage only why do anything?
2: IF you MAY work in there then you should insulate the heck out of it from the beginning.
3: Without the insulation you may find that heater a disappointment unless you live in the not much winter south.
4: Got a feeling you will cuss the power bill with that heater.
5: Garage size is not big enough but you know that.
1: IF it is storage only why do anything?
2: IF you MAY work in there then you should insulate the heck out of it from the beginning.
3: Without the insulation you may find that heater a disappointment unless you live in the not much winter south.
4: Got a feeling you will cuss the power bill with that heater.
5: Garage size is not big enough but you know that.
I am 50 SW of Chicago...so it gets cold. The slab will be insulated with 2" foam. Although it's 20x20, 10x5 of it is partioned off as a separate room for my wife's stuff. So that leaves me with a 10' w x 20' L area that opens up to the back 10' x 5' area. Primary reason for shed is to get the lawn mower, garden carts, weed trimmer, power washer, rototiller etc out of the garage. I have a 3 car attached but have 3 cars. Been making it work with a car lift. So although it's not a huge area, I am having the side walls built with enough height to accommodate a car lift if I decide to store my Camaro back there once my kids are old enough to drive. I am planning on insulating...maybe not initially. That's one of the decisions I am trying to make. Obviously I won't try heating without insulation on walls and ceiling...but if I am going to do pex I need to make the decision before building.
I'm about as "pro-radiant" as they come. However, in this case, I'm not sure I'd go that way. Radiant is a great way to heat, although I usually think of using it in a larger area. Here are some things to consider:
1) Do you want to give up space for a heating appliance, pump, and manifold to power the system?
2) Do you want to go though the trouble of plumbing the system? ie: Running water to the building, sleeving it up though the floor and protecting it from freezing?
3) Resistance heat is expensive (tank type water heater), do you want to keep the building at temp all the time? You'll need to with radiant as reaction times are slow.
My suggestion is if your unsure about what you want to do, put some PEX in the slab. That amount of PEX will cost very little and give you the option to go radiant at a later date. Then, I'd put install an electric (or other source) heater and see if you're happy with it. If you never use the PEX, you're out probably less than $200 and a little labor.
Best of Luck,
Reflex
1) Do you want to give up space for a heating appliance, pump, and manifold to power the system?
2) Do you want to go though the trouble of plumbing the system? ie: Running water to the building, sleeving it up though the floor and protecting it from freezing?
3) Resistance heat is expensive (tank type water heater), do you want to keep the building at temp all the time? You'll need to with radiant as reaction times are slow.
My suggestion is if your unsure about what you want to do, put some PEX in the slab. That amount of PEX will cost very little and give you the option to go radiant at a later date. Then, I'd put install an electric (or other source) heater and see if you're happy with it. If you never use the PEX, you're out probably less than $200 and a little labor.
Best of Luck,
Reflex
Colonial Cobra
Well-known member
I know it's off subject,,, But, Insulate, Insulate, Insulate. Spend the extra money on good insulation and your costs to keep it at a reasonable temp will be much less.
We have forced air and radiant. Both have their advantages. For an outbuilding, I'm not sure I would go with radiant though. Spray Foam insulation, good insulated doors, and a mini-split or small unit would be perfect.
We have forced air and radiant. Both have their advantages. For an outbuilding, I'm not sure I would go with radiant though. Spray Foam insulation, good insulated doors, and a mini-split or small unit would be perfect.
Radiant is probably the best form of heat to live with, but only if done correctly. The details have to be right and for your space and likely use, I think there are more cost effective methods. It is largely a budget issue. If you have the resources, go for it, but recognize as the building progresses there are a LOT of places for that money to go.
I'm in the business and can buy wholesale on all the parts, but chose not to put tubing in my slab and have found plenty of places for that money to go.
I'm in the business and can buy wholesale on all the parts, but chose not to put tubing in my slab and have found plenty of places for that money to go.
finn
Well-known member
Frankly, I don't think your building is large enough to justify spending money on insulating the pad or installing PEX.
Radiant heat is relatively expensive to install IF YOU ARE PAYING SOMEONE TO DO THE INSTALLATION.
The materials are inexpensive, but there is alot of screwing around compared to a simple vapor barrier and slab for a storage building, so labor costs are not insignificant.. Radiant doesn't work well for occasional / intermittant heat, either.
Don't get me wrong: I've got radiant in the shop, and the comfort is great, but it's costing me over $500/ month in fuel during the cold months (for a MUCH larger shop). I'm considering switching to some other system to reduce operating overhead. If I was out there every day for the entire winter, I'd think otherwise.
Radiant heat is relatively expensive to install IF YOU ARE PAYING SOMEONE TO DO THE INSTALLATION.
The materials are inexpensive, but there is alot of screwing around compared to a simple vapor barrier and slab for a storage building, so labor costs are not insignificant.. Radiant doesn't work well for occasional / intermittant heat, either.
Don't get me wrong: I've got radiant in the shop, and the comfort is great, but it's costing me over $500/ month in fuel during the cold months (for a MUCH larger shop). I'm considering switching to some other system to reduce operating overhead. If I was out there every day for the entire winter, I'd think otherwise.
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Jagmandave
Well-known member
That's the key....everyday use or occasional. Since this seems to be a storage building more than a workshop I'd say a small heater will do the trick. However, if you have gas available, I'd do that rather than electric. A Farenheit 5000 will take hours to get that building warmed upon a winter day, a gas heater will have it useable in only minutes and for far less energy cost.
Garage Dog
Well-known member
This has all been said but if you need a second:
Can you go up to at least 24' x 24'? Have you seen a car stuffed into a 10' x 20' space? That is the first place I would put a little extra money.
Intermittent heat use = forced air hanging unit heater, I prefer gas over electric and have a Modine Hot Dawg, I think they go down to 30,000 btu for a space that size. Why? Primarily reaction time to bring space up to a temp is much faster.
Warm floor and comfort = Radiant Heat; I know it would be a simple system and the tubing itself is inexpensive, but just the fittings ad up these days. Further more if you have reason to drill into the slab i.e. for a lift, now you add a level of complexity and risk you need to consider.
I would insulate under the slab regardless of heat source and if you go with radiant; give yourself some sort of thermal break around the perimeter of the slab as well so are not directly heating the foundation and ground around it.
Good Luck,
GD
Can you go up to at least 24' x 24'? Have you seen a car stuffed into a 10' x 20' space? That is the first place I would put a little extra money.
Intermittent heat use = forced air hanging unit heater, I prefer gas over electric and have a Modine Hot Dawg, I think they go down to 30,000 btu for a space that size. Why? Primarily reaction time to bring space up to a temp is much faster.
Warm floor and comfort = Radiant Heat; I know it would be a simple system and the tubing itself is inexpensive, but just the fittings ad up these days. Further more if you have reason to drill into the slab i.e. for a lift, now you add a level of complexity and risk you need to consider.
I would insulate under the slab regardless of heat source and if you go with radiant; give yourself some sort of thermal break around the perimeter of the slab as well so are not directly heating the foundation and ground around it.
Good Luck,
GD
Since we're not too far away, I'd guess our weather is reasonably similar. If you're even considering heating it makes sense to put the 2" foam down under the slab.
A couple of comments have had me scratching my head. For one, there is no reason to run water to the garage for a radiant system in your situation. It will be a closed loop with water/glycol mix, so there's no need to worry about it freezing if the system is off.
When I started my barn/shop build I told the building inspector (who is a plumber by trade) that I was going to use radiant heat for a 24x40' section of my shop. He asked what I planned to use for a furnace, and I told him an electric water heater (no natural gas run to the barn). He said for my purposes (and what sounds like yours) where it doesn't need to be heated to house temps 24/7, a system using an electric holding tank and an on-demand heater (both rated for radiant heat) would be much less expensive. I can't recall the exact dimensions of his outbuilding, but it's something like 20x25 and he says he heats it with that sort of system, and it costs him $30/mo to keep it in the high 50s to low 60s in the coldest weather.
He was back two weeks ago for my insulation inspection (starting to cover the walls, etc) and we talked some more about it. He insulated under the slab with 2" foam board, had spray foam done on the walls (around R22 as I recall since mine will be similar) and then added blown cellulose over the top.
I'm going to use the setup he described, and if it can keep the shop in the 50s when it's -18*F out, I'll be thrilled....that's warm enough for working inside, and having the floor warm will be a bonus.
A couple of comments have had me scratching my head. For one, there is no reason to run water to the garage for a radiant system in your situation. It will be a closed loop with water/glycol mix, so there's no need to worry about it freezing if the system is off.
When I started my barn/shop build I told the building inspector (who is a plumber by trade) that I was going to use radiant heat for a 24x40' section of my shop. He asked what I planned to use for a furnace, and I told him an electric water heater (no natural gas run to the barn). He said for my purposes (and what sounds like yours) where it doesn't need to be heated to house temps 24/7, a system using an electric holding tank and an on-demand heater (both rated for radiant heat) would be much less expensive. I can't recall the exact dimensions of his outbuilding, but it's something like 20x25 and he says he heats it with that sort of system, and it costs him $30/mo to keep it in the high 50s to low 60s in the coldest weather.
He was back two weeks ago for my insulation inspection (starting to cover the walls, etc) and we talked some more about it. He insulated under the slab with 2" foam board, had spray foam done on the walls (around R22 as I recall since mine will be similar) and then added blown cellulose over the top.
I'm going to use the setup he described, and if it can keep the shop in the 50s when it's -18*F out, I'll be thrilled....that's warm enough for working inside, and having the floor warm will be a bonus.
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HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
I'm in the "NO" to radiant camp. I love it in my attached garage with living space in the second floor, but it makes little sense for your intended purpose. Forced air gas would be my first choice. An electric heat pump (or mini split) would be my second choice. Forced air electric wouldn't make my list as the operating costs will be 3 to 4 times as high as the mini split.
I googled "Camaro Length" and it turns out they are a little under 16-feet (exact dimensions depend on the year). So it will fit. Sort of.
Phil
I googled "Camaro Length" and it turns out they are a little under 16-feet (exact dimensions depend on the year). So it will fit. Sort of.
Phil