Rafter Tie vs 6” Timberlok screw

[Chennig]

Getting prepared to set my trusses next week and was looking for input. Both are about the same price. But curious what everyone’s thoughts are on the 2. Labor aside I’m just looking what’s going to provide the best connection. I have a set of 1’ heel 6/12 trusses with a 4/12 vault. It’s a 48’ x 28’ hipped roof. Not in hurricane area but we do get a occasional strong wind or slim tornado possibilities.

Timberlok:
https://www.menards.com/main/hardwa...crew-50-count/fmtlok06-50/p-1444450200026.htm


Rafter Tie:
https://www.menards.com/main/hardwa...094-c-8891.htm?tid=7300113560451217004&ipos=7


Anyone used both that have feedback?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[theoldwizard1]

First use the PROPER terminology ! That is not a rafter tie. It is simply called a hurricane tie/anchor. That one is a knock off of a Simpson H1. Proper installation require structural nails or screws.

I would use those over Timberloks which could split the 2by material in a truss.

EDIT : This is a rafter tie

 

[mike93lx]

agree, use hurricane ties. the proper nail or screw in every single hole.

 

[NUTTSGT]

agree, use hurricane ties. the proper nail or screw in every single hole.

I would concur also.

 

[acer66]

Big fan of self tapping structural screws and will not touch hurricane ties anymore unless you pay me to while I still will try to talk you out of them.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Big fan of self tapping structural screws and will not touch hurricane ties anymore unless you pay me to while I still will try to talk you out of them.

Why is that ?

 

[Toolfool]

The TimberLoks work great. I have never had a truss split, there's a guide tool they sell to drive them at the proper angle. The Simpson hurricane clips are time-consuming and will bump out the drywall in a residential situation. I use a lot of the FastenMaster products.

 

[acer66]

Why is that ?

Because ...

The TimberLoks work great. I have never had a truss split, there's a guide tool they sell to drive them at the proper angle. The Simpson hurricane clips are time-consuming and will bump out the drywall in a residential situation. I use a lot of the FastenMaster products.

 

[Dzlpete]

I will use a screw over metal brackets any day! Faster to install, and my money goes to a company other than Simpson, who should burn........

 

[acer66]

and my money goes to a company other than Simpson, who should burn........

Why is that ?

 

[rtdgfd]

Simpson has done lots of testing and provided education at their expense for the design and building industry. The ties have a good track record. The screws may also work well. The key thing is to address the uplift resistance. Both may be good solutions.

 

[rayra]

Some places the ties are code-required. You should check your local regs before you buy a bunch of anything.

 

[acer66]

Some places the ties are code-required. You should check your local regs before you buy a bunch of anything.

The screws we are talking about are a code approved substitution for the ties but you are right it is better to check if your local codes allows them.

 

[strutaeng]

We have specified the Simpson hurricane ties many times, but is time consuming to install.

The screws are a newer item, which Simpson also has. I'm not familiar with the Timberlock products too well.

I did the Simpson ties a while back on an addition...same thing, they are not required here, but located in tornado alley...

I bought a palm nailer, and it was painfully slow (10 nails per tie!) I think I did like 300 ties! I would do hurricane ties with an appropriate nailer or the screws.

Considering the cost of the nailer, the screws may be better option for DIY.

 

[mike93lx]

We have specified the Simpson hurricane ties many times, but is time consuming to install.

The screws are a newer item, which Simpson also has. I'm not familiar with the Timberlock products too well.

I did the Simpson ties a while back on an addition...same thing, they are not required here, but located in tornado alley...

I bought a palm nailer, and it was painfully slow (10 nails per tie!) I think I did like 300 ties! I would do hurricane ties with an appropriate nailer or the screws.

Considering the cost of the nailer, the screws may be better option for DIY.

At 300,i would have bought the nailer, no question

 

[TractorJeff]

I used Timberlocks on the end Trusses and Simpson ties on the rest. Simpsons are a code requirement around here.

 

[acer66]

We have specified the Simpson hurricane ties many times, but is time consuming to install.

The screws are a newer item, which Simpson also has. I'm not familiar with the Timberlock products too well.

I did the Simpson ties a while back on an addition...same thing, they are not required here, but located in tornado alley...

I bought a palm nailer, and it was painfully slow (10 nails per tie!) I think I did like 300 ties! I would do hurricane ties with an appropriate nailer or the screws.

Considering the cost of the nailer, the screws may be better option for DIY.

@ 300 ties screws would be a no brainer for me.
At my last job I had around 50 and that was it for me.

 

[matt_i]

I used the H1Z "hurricane tie" uplift connectors. Its a lot of hammering, Simpson also makes little hex head screws which are approved fasteners for the sides (do not want to use them on the double top plate as it would interfere with drywall, etc). Using nails on the truss-sides is an exercise in not damaging the sheetmetal while hammering in a small corner.

If I had it to do again I would use the screws for less labor, and definitely if you have any doubled trusses.

The local code here is written "uplift connectors to provide ** lbs of static resistance per truss" or something along those lines, it doesn't specify a brand or type of connector.

 

[ddurrett896]

Simpson tie and buy a NR38AK.

 

[joe_padavano]

As a structural engineer, I'll use the hurricane ties with fasteners in shear over the single timber bolt in tension any day. Increasing the construction firm's profit is definitely NOT my top priority as a homeowner and garage owner.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Because ...

So it's basically a time constraint issue ?

 

[acer66]

So it's basically a time constraint issue ?

Yes but as pointed out using ties makes finishing the drywall more difficult.
So not only saves it time installing them,it also makes it easier for one the next guys which in my last job was me and there was no crown moulding to hide the waves created by ties easily which is why I would not use ties anymore unless I have to.

Come to think about it now next time using ties I would use drywall shims in between the ties on the top plate to avoid the waves.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yes but as pointed out using ties makes finishing the drywall more difficult.
So not only saves it time installing them,it also makes it easier for one the next guys which in my last job was me and there was no crown moulding to hide the waves created by ties easily which is why I would not use ties anymore unless I have to.

Come to think about it now next time using ties I would use drywall shims in between the ties on the top plate to avoid the waves.

The drywall issue does make sense. I was thinking more along the lines of garage/shop and no drywall, not really of the house building side of it. granted I do realize that some guys are sheet rocking their walls.

My original thought was a defect error or non-working product. That's why I was curious about your concerns. They do make sense when you consider the custom/production home building use.

 

[Dzlpete]

Any company that artificially creates a problem, then develops, tests and patents a proprietary solution, AND lobbies the building code enforcement and creation officials is effectively creating the problem, AND their sole solution.
I have less than zero interest in contributing to that business model!
Granted, there are times and places where something other than the usual building practice is needed, but I do not agree with blanket, across the board code changes and mandatory compliance.
As far as uplift goes, any builder worth his salt had better know how to toenail a rafter or truss down properly to avoid “uplift” . The code lays out in most instances an uplift of several hundred pounds at most, in most instances.
If you can’t properly nail something down to that spec, probably should do something different for a living.
When the truss engineer says you need more, you should have more than one acceptable option.
It does not say in the code book to specifically use Simpson products, but the code enforcement officers in most cases will not accept anything but- lest you slow your project down to argue with them, you best step in line.

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of buildings have been built and are still standing prior to “the magic bracket” with the Simpson name on it.
There is no end to the level of distaste I have for that company.

If you cannot nail a rafter down properly, who is to say you can nail that POS bracket properly, and oh, by the way, make sure you use the “special” Simpson nails too, or else.....

 

[JamesW84]

Apparently, I've given a lot of money to the devil recently on my build.

I used two Simpson 6" Truss Screws per each side of the truss for 1000 lbs of uplift resistance on each end. I'm not sure I needed two, but given my experience so far, I'm not taking a chance. If your truss isn't aligned exactly over a stud, you can run the screws from directly underneath, which offers the most uplift resistance.

I didn't split any trusses.

For Lateral resistance, I'd maybe choose something else. I have a unique situation.

here's the chart for connectors:https://www.strongtie.com/hurricanetiesforplatedtruss_trusstiedowns/h-tsp_productgroup_wcc/p/h.tsp#LoadTables

 

[TurnipTruck]

Since I was able to borrow the extended-point nailer, it was a no brainer to use the brackets and the specific hardened nails. Not too worried about the drywall in a shop.

 

[manwithtools]

The fact that Simpson is now promoting a rafter / truss securing screw tell us that the
TimberLok is a well designed and accepted method of securing trusses. I've used the rest of Fastenmaster's product line extensively in recent deck constructions. There is simply no comparison between their fasteners and the conventional lag bolt and carriage bolt methods. Every time I have a exterior wood connection to tackle, I look at their website first to see what innovative product they have that is applicable.

No, I don't work for them. I just really appreciate their products.

I'm with others, I think the Simpson products are overpriced and resent somewhat the mandated use of their product. Particularly I don't like the aesthetics of the products and packaging. If you are going to charge a premium for your legislated use product, then at least show some other type of value.

 

[mike93lx]

The fact that Simpson is now promoting a rafter / truss securing screw tell us that the
TimberLok is a well designed and accepted method of securing trusses. I've used the rest of Fastenmaster's product line extensively in recent deck constructions. There is simply no comparison between their fasteners and the conventional lag bolt and carriage bolt methods. Every time I have a exterior wood connection to tackle, I look at their website first to see what innovative product they have that is applicable.

No, I don't work for them. I just really appreciate their products.

I'm with others, I think the Simpson products are overpriced and resent somewhat the mandated use of their product. Particularly I don't like the aesthetics of the products and packaging. If you are going to charge a premium for your legislated use product, then at least show some other type of value.

OK they are just trying to take advantage of the market segment. That doesn’t mean it is or isn't comparable in strength. Just marketing and sales

 

[theoldwizard1]

As a structural engineer, I'll use the hurricane ties with fasteners in shear over the single timber bolt in tension any day. Increasing the construction firm's profit is definitely NOT my top priority as a homeowner and garage owner.

Nailing or screwing into end grain is weak.

 

[matt_i]

Nailing or screwing into end grain is weak.

This is true but not applicable to any of the applications discussed in this thread.

Its all into the "side grain" no matter if the H1Z or the long screws are being used....


My perspective is this...I didn't use Timberlok but I extensively used GRK-RSS and *man* are those things impressive. I assume similar technology is in use. One could actually use the GRKs if purchased long enough, probably the ~6" version would be appropriate.

In the Simpson h1Z, I questioned all of the 1-1/2" nails or hex screws in a very short area that are immediately opposed by same type of fasteners, which seemed like it could lead to a "chip out" failure if the grain isn't long and straight. My bottom chord was a 2x10 due to the attic storage truss and I feel certain the H1Z is also designed for 2x4 bottom chords, so its a "1-size fits all".

 

[Dzlpete]

The single Fastenmaster screw has either 2 or 3 times the uplift rating of one of those little Simpson bowtie type hurricane clips if I remember.
More than adequate unless you need to secure certain types of girder trusses. Then , you just use one in each ply, and you are still usually way over what you need.
And no bumps in your sheetrock.
Just the idea of needing “hurricane clips” 150-200 miles inland of shore here in the mountains of MA is a bit crazy.

 

[Chennig]

I am going to go with the Timberloks as I will be sheet rocking the inside and it’s a hip roof. So the time savings is going to help.

Thanks all for your input.

I will take plenty of pictures this weekend and get around to starting a build thread.





Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[rayra]

Yes but as pointed out using ties makes finishing the drywall more difficult.
So not only saves it time installing them,it also makes it easier for one the next guys which in my last job was me and there was no crown moulding to hide the waves created by ties easily which is why I would not use ties anymore unless I have to.

Come to think about it now next time using ties I would use drywall shims in between the ties on the top plate to avoid the waves.

If you are getting waves in your drywall over the ties, you're either putting in too many drywall screws, too close to the tie locations AND you are probably improperly using screws on the ties, which stand too proud and are contributing to the creation of 'waves'. You're supposed to use flat-headed nails, purpose-made for the intended shear-strength. The ties aren't just a one-sided location bracket.
Somehow the bulk housebuilding industry full of illegals here in CA can use ties and hang drywall without such waves. What is it you are doing differently / wrong?

 

[rayra]

...
Its all into the "side grain" no matter if the H1Z or the long screws are being used....

...

No, that is not the issue. With the big screw the issue is pulling the screw out or thru either piece of lumber, on the axis of the screw itself. With the tie, the issue / force is in shear. Shear forces applied to all those nails you are supposed to use. The properly nailed tie bracket is supposed to be stronger than the pieces of framing it is nailed to.

 

[rick carpenter]

Your insurance company may like the ties better.

 

[Notgrownup]

I used and would rather use Hurricane ties. Much more contact patch or anchor strength with the nails. Plus it’s code here...

 

[mc1984ss]

Re: Rafter Tie vs 6” Timberlok screw

Another good reason to use the screw over the plate is it can eliminate "frost spots" this sometimes happens where the plate is against the back of the drywall and it transfers the cold to the drywall. This could be eliminated of course bif you put them on the outside of the wall instead of the inside but I believe they are supposed to be on the inside.

I talked to my local building inspector he was familiar with the screws and that's what was used on my shop and home

 

[PugetDude]

Any company that artificially creates a problem, then develops, tests and patents a proprietary solution, AND lobbies the building code enforcement and creation officials is effectively creating the problem, AND their sole solution.
I have less than zero interest in contributing to that business model!
Granted, there are times and places where something other than the usual building practice is needed, but I do not agree with blanket, across the board code changes and mandatory compliance.
As far as uplift goes, any builder worth his salt had better know how to toenail a rafter or truss down properly to avoid “uplift” . The code lays out in most instances an uplift of several hundred pounds at most, in most instances.
If you can’t properly nail something down to that spec, probably should do something different for a living.
When the truss engineer says you need more, you should have more than one acceptable option.
It does not say in the code book to specifically use Simpson products, but the code enforcement officers in most cases will not accept anything but- lest you slow your project down to argue with them, you best step in line.

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of buildings have been built and are still standing prior to “the magic bracket” with the Simpson name on it.
There is no end to the level of distaste I have for that company.

If you cannot nail a rafter down properly, who is to say you can nail that POS bracket properly, and oh, by the way, make sure you use the “special” Simpson nails too, or else.....

Since you're such a purist, can we assume you're still building homes with handsaws, a hammer and a bucket of nails? Diagonal rough-cut 1x subfloors instead of plywood? No housewrap? Single pane wood windows? You my not like the "politics" behind code changes, but it's hard to argue the science, testing data and empirical evidence after a high-intensity weather event.

 

[rburke65]

The Simpson hurricane truss ties are a pain. I did them on an “Extreme Make Over” locally.....my god that’s a lot of nails.

 

[JamesW84]

The Simpson hurricane truss ties are a pain. I did them on an “Extreme Make Over” locally.....my god that’s a lot of nails.

Yup. Palm nailer would make short work of it. By hand you'd have Jello arm pretty quick.

I installed 12 HTT5 hold down brackets (each side of overhead door and one on each corner wall). 26 nails in each one. Palm nailer all the way. I had never heard of them before, but it was amazing.