Railroad Track questions

[Davefr]

The local steel plant makes rail. 240' lengths welded into 1600' lengths. I have seen mini mountains of scrap rail that didn't make the grade. I'm happy with this :

so I haven't attempted to get a new piece of rail. Regards Barry

WOW!!! That looks great!!

 

[snapmom]

 

[TexasDmax]

There is a plant about 70 miles from me that still makes creosote ties. When you drive by you can see they are in full production and not using up old stock. Of course this is Texas and we are kinda like the "Honey Badger" of the country when it comes to EPA. Also, when I was growing up my Dad had a piece of track for an anvil, it works great.

 

[GRX]

Nice anvils. I have seen some great ones made from old marine dock cleats.

 

[Hiball]

Grandma please. If it was up to some of you guys you'd have everyone sitting inside sucking their thumb where they are nice and safe. Quit living in fear.

Unlawfully Aquiring Something and Living in Fear are 2 different things, There are Legal ways to aquire Small Chunks of Railroad Track and if one knew the Right Guy i suspect they would just give it to you. Im Gonna Pm Trackwelder as i know he will probably have some insight on any EPA Regulation changes, If Memory serves me Correct New York (Trackwelders Home state) was one of the first states to initially Ban Creosote in the Ground and after some Legislative changes based and "Railroad Hardship" Claims it was revoked for Railroads. Creosote is some Bad ****, The Numbers dont lie.... It is Not good for you and the amount of Lawsuits regarding exposure are Thru the Roof. Keep watching the News.. The Class1 Railroads are about to start crying about the "Positive Train Control" thats being forced down there throats.

 

[trackwelder]

Well to start anybody caught taking any material from the railroad regardless of how long it has been lying around is likely to be prosecuted. I have never been asked for a rail drop and surely would not risk my job doing so.

As far as creosoted ties we still use them and I really do not see them going away.
Here in NY the railroads and power companies are exempt from the state mandated creosote ban. Creosote is nasty stuff and I wash it off quickly if any happens to get on me.

Heres a link with some tie info http://www.progressiverailroading.com/mow/article/Maintenance-of-way-Crosstie-market-update--27899

 

[Hiball]

Well to start anybody caught taking any material from the railroad regardless of how long it has been lying around is likely to be prosecuted. I have never been asked for a rail drop and surely would not risk my job doing so.

As far as creosoted ties we still use them and I really do not see them going away.
Here in NY the railroads and power companies are exempt from the state mandated creosote ban. Creosote is nasty stuff and I wash it off quickly if any happens to get on me.

Heres a link with some tie info http://www.progressiverailroading.com/mow/article/Maintenance-of-way-Crosstie-market-update--27899

Thanks for the Input.. Maybe i misunderstood the Track Supervisor as far as the EPA Banning Creosote Ties and setting a Deadline. Might have had something to do with 12 hours of 2.4 MPH... LOL

 

[Mr.Magoo]

Grandma please. If it was up to some of you guys you'd have everyone sitting inside sucking their thumb where they are nice and safe. Quit living in fear.

I'm with this cat, who the hell is worried about terrorism and fear. If your into that **** then they got you where they want you. Control with fear is the name of the game and about 98% of you people got the disease. Remember, KNOW YOUR ENEMIES, THEY ARE YOUR LEADERS!!!! And as for railroad iron, very different for me. I own an orange grove with a railroad easement going through it since 1902. In 1999 after abandonment the current owners who were from Salt Lake came through to salvage the iron, wood and even the ballast. I bought back the quarter mile easement as it was offered to the owners first. There was no problem getting as much iron as I wanted, I didn't take much.The crew was willing to let some loose, it was all probably going to China anyway. After the salvage operation, I'm still finding plates and spike out there. The spike makes great cold chisels.

 

[Barry Tucker]

I have an abandoned railroad that runs across my property. It's been abandoned for close to 40 years. I took some plates and spikes for recycling.
At the recycling center they asked where I got them. After I told them, I was told to take them home. The recycling center is a subsidiary of the company I work for. If that wasn't the case, I almost think they would have turned me over to the police that was there. Regards Barry

 

[LSU]

Thanks for all the replies.

I never thought a simple post about finding a 1' piece of track would wind up with discusssion about possible post 911 terrorism issues, EPA issues and issues involving possession of stolen property.

I agree that removing track from a railroad line is a crime. I also think that a scrap piece of track that lies along the railroad's servitude is property of the company installing the track. I think if one works for a railroad and carries off some track their going to lose their job. No dispute on this.

I won't go into the concrete versus cresote discussion because I don't need a 1' piece of either.

I refuse to believe that possession of a 1' piece of rail is going to cause me to wind up at Supermax Prison in Colorado sharing a jail wing with Zacarias Moussaoui of al-Qaeda fame.

I've seen folks who have used track as mail box supports, corner fence posts, guard rails on private property, etc. I think that once a piece of property (in this case a piece of scrap track) is abandoned for a certain period of time (and I'm not talking about a defunct rail line on property still owned by the railroad) it is abandoned under law.

If the scrap track winds up at a scrap yard and I buy it - you can't convince me that I've done anything criminally wrong. Now if I buy 50 tons of scrap rail off the back of a truck and try to sell it, that might be a different story.

I think about all the World War II pistols and rifles that I've seen for sale that have "Property of US Government" stamped on them.

Yea, I agree the government owned them at some point but I suspect the guns were put into private commerce (or stolen by some G.I. long deceased) and are now legal to own. I'm not talking about owning a nuclear bomb, machine gun, etc. I'm talking about a normally legal pistol or rifle that my dad or other carried home after the war.

Anyway - I never thought a post asking about how to find a piece of rail track would be so much fun to read.

Thanks to all posters.

I'd ask folks to PM me if they had a spare piece and I'd pay the postage but I suspect mailng a piece of rail is a crime under some silly Federal Statute.

Plus the postage would be more than the machine shop would charge me.

Again, thanks for all the posts.

 

[trackwelder]

LSU, nobody is saying that you cannot legally own a small piece of rail. If you went to a scrap yard and bought a small piece that would be just fine. It real simple, don't trespass on railroad property, or take any material thats on it.

 

[uart]

LSU, nobody is saying that you cannot legally own a small piece of rail. If you went to a scrap yard and bought a small piece that would be just fine. It real simple, don't trespass on railroad property, or take any material thats on it.

The thing is, nobody had even suggested trespassing on railway property or stealing it at the point in this thread when the whole terrorism thing was dragged out. Which was a bit over the top in my opinion!

 

[kxxr]

Another answer to the OP about how to cut rail is: cutting torch.

 

[G_P]

I just remembered I have a piece of some kind of rail that is really wide. The top has a "V" in it as well? I hit it with a lawnmower on a piece of property that was once a farm and upon digging it up I now have a 12" or so chunk of it. Was it some kind of overhead track? I talked to the decendants of the farms old owners and they could not remember ever seeing anything like it on the farm. I know farmers tend to have all kinds of stuff lying around so it could just be scrap but it really looks like some kind of overhead hoist track.

Its horribly rusty from being buried and has no visible markings on it.

When it stops raining I'll try to drag it out and get some pictures.

 

[4x4gearhead]

My local steel dist. actually sells 1 1/2 ft sections of rail as "anvils" one can be had for like $30 I think. So check your steel place, maybe they can give you a longer piece.

 

[kruegdr]

Looks like I'm a little late joining the fray.

To the OP - find a small maintenance area and just ask if they have anything. The worst answer you can get is "no". It's not a crime to have someone give you an old, short piece of rail. There's several types of rail you can get. If you are looking for something for an anvil, get head-hardened rail. As for size, get something around 132lb/yd or larger. The largest you'll find in normal service is 141 lb/yd. (Yes, I know the Pennsy had larger sections, but it's not common).

Hi-ball is right about getting prosecuted for terroristic activities. There's been several people prosecuted for pulling up codeline wire and other things that are critical to the railroad.

As for scrap, RR's tend to take that seriously. A friend of mine who's an RR cop helped plan a bust of scrap thieves with another local RR, and even got the local SWAT team involved. Lots of the guys arrested already had outstanding warrants for worse stuff, so I consider prosecuting scrap thieves to be pretty helpful.

As for Csmitty, I was around when he showed me the rail. Was definitely a plug that was pulled out for a UT defect. And yes, the RR definitely did set their property on fire from the rail grinder.

gtrotter, they don't lay out rail to get it to "acclimate" it to the area. They lay it out in preparation for a changeout in the near future. Rail doesn't take very long to come up to temperature.

And finally, about ties:
Concrete ties are not specifically for passenger lines. They are great because they use elastic fasteners which are stronger than spikes. They are a lot heavier and resist thermal track buckles better than wooden ties. However, they are extremely heavy, and brittle sometimes. That's why you need the good ballast section and subgrade (as Bart mentioned).

Creosote is alive and well. See the FAQ at the Railway Tie Association's website http://www.rta.org/Default.aspx?tabid=70

 

[Jeeprz!]

I just remembered I have a piece of some kind of rail that is really wide. The top has a "V" in it as well? I hit it with a lawnmower on a piece of property that was once a farm and upon digging it up I now have a 12" or so chunk of it. Was it some kind of overhead track? I talked to the decendants of the farms old owners and they could not remember ever seeing anything like it on the farm. I know farmers tend to have all kinds of stuff lying around so it could just be scrap but it really looks like some kind of overhead hoist track.

Its horribly rusty from being buried and has no visible markings on it.

When it stops raining I'll try to drag it out and get some pictures.

I have no idea what it is, but since you found it partially buried on an old farm I wonder if it was used as a weight on an old plow or disk and happend to fall off years ago without being noticed.

 

[Hiball]

The thing is, nobody had even suggested trespassing on railway property or stealing it at the point in this thread when the whole terrorism thing was dragged out. Which was a bit over the top in my opinion!

There have been similar threads here in the Past concerning this very subject, There is always someone who pipes up and says "Just go down to the Local, Abandoned RailYard and Pick up a Piece, They wont Care.. Joe Blow Down the street to i had his permission to get whatever i needed" Yes.. My Comment was a bit Pre-emptive, I just dont want to see someone get in trouble over something so trivial.

Hi-ball is right about getting prosecuted for terroristic activities. There's been several people prosecuted for pulling up codeline wire and other things that are critical to the railroad.

As for scrap, RR's tend to take that seriously. A friend of mine who's an RR cop helped plan a bust of scrap thieves with another local RR, and even got the local SWAT team involved. Lots of the guys arrested already had outstanding warrants for worse stuff, so I consider prosecuting scrap thieves to be pretty helpful.

As you Probably know.. they take it very serious because heres how things work in the Real world. JohnnyNeedsomeRailforhisAnvilproject goes down to the Local RailYard looking for a small piece to Make himself a Fancy Anvil and gets Run Over by the Hiball trying to make a living. Now Hiball has to deal with US Court system by giving repeated Depositions because JohnnyNeedsomeRailforhisAnvilProjects Family wants to sue.

To the OP: By All Means find you a Piece of Track and make a Anvil, Its not the first time ive seen these Members pics here at GJ. They offer a Nice small area to beat things together and a Cool conversation piece to boot.

 

[ZRX61]

Here's mine:

So far I have ground the burr off the sides & cleaned up the top with a flap disc. Also laid out where I need to cut it, next move is the Gas Axe..

 

[blueflame6]

I made this anvil in the mid 70's, still going strong. Also have some extruded nails with dates on them I guess to date the individual ties themselves...21, 23, 25, etc..this site brings back the memories........

 

[trackwelder]

The thing is, nobody had even suggested trespassing on railway property or stealing it at the point in this thread when the whole terrorism thing was dragged out. Which was a bit over the top in my opinion!

Maybe you need to reread this thread.

Several people stated that they have in the past obtained railroad material and thought it was no big deal. I have been to several yards in the past to reclaim just a fraction of what has been stolen and the railroads are tired of it. If you are caught removing items no matter how trival you think they are you stand a good chance of being arrested.

I was just trying to add some useful insight to the thread, unlike your useless comments.

 

[Need4racin]

Here's mine:

Call the SWAT Team, we have a terrorist among us!!

 

[Outlawmws]

I made this anvil in the mid 70's, still going strong. Also have some extruded nails with dates on them I guess to date the individual ties themselves...21, 23, 25, etc..this site brings back the memories........

Nails like that are usually used around here on telephone/power poles. I've never seen one on a RR tie.

 

[ndnchf]

Here's mine, rough as it is. Picked it up 20+ years ago at a flea market. Seeing some nicely polished and painted rail-anvils here, I may be inspired to give it a make-over!

 

[Hiball]

Here's mine, rough as it is. Picked it up 20+ years ago at a flea market. Seeing some nicely polished and painted rail-anvils here, I may be inspired to give it a make-over!

This Place will do that to you.. Whats the story on that Old Motor behind your anvil? Hit and Miss? I spend some time at the Threshers show in Iowa and enjoy looking at all the Variations.

 

[ndnchf]

I think that old rail-anvil will clean up nicely. I need to weld up a couple little holes in the top, clean, polish and some paint, and it will be a purty hunk of iron.

Whats the story on that Old Motor behind your anvil? Hit and Miss?

Close - its an old Maytag two cylinder washing machine motor. Back in the days before rural electrification, gas powered washing machines were quite popular. Of course you had to put them on the back porch to avoid the exhaust fumes.

 

[LSU]

Another answer to the OP about how to cut rail is: cutting torch.

Thanks. I don't own a cutting torch but if I were to come across a piece of rail (legally , I might have a reason to buy one.

New Post: Anybody got an idea how to hide a cutting torch in my garage so my wife doesn't see it?

And, please, please no one suggest I build a wall of railroad ties to hide it behind because I don't want decide if I should use concrete or cresote railroad ties to conceal it and the implications of what the EPA, OSHA, Homeland Security, TSA or the USMC might have to say about hiding a the cutting torch behind railroad ties (either concrete or cresote) in a residential neighborhood w/o permits, zoning, etc.

All I really want is a 1' railroad tie to put on my workbench so I can stop beating the daylights out of the anvil on top of my (most likley) Made in China (not a Wilton) vise.

I'll keep looking and let ya'll know what I find.

Again, thanks for all the posts and comments. This certainly has evolved into an interesting thread. When I posted it I sort of wondered if anyone would even reply. This was my bad because I should have never doubted the wisdom of GJ.

 

[ZRX61]

Call the SWAT Team, we have a terrorist among us!!

That was the only piece I could carry back to my truck from a yard sale, he also has a couple of 3ft sections & another that was about 8ft..

 

[uart]

The thing is, nobody had even suggested trespassing on railway property or stealing it at the point in this thread when the whole terrorism thing was dragged out. Which was a bit over the top in my opinion!

Maybe you need to reread this thread.

Sorry but you are the one that needs to reread it. At the point in the thread when the "terrorism" issue was brought up (#4) nobody had even mentioned going onto railway property. It's only three posts, so go read them now ok.

 

[B17E1943]

Here's mine; been looking for a while and finally picked this up at a yard sale last month with a bunch of tools. Cost was practically nil.

I hope the railroad police don't have the dragnet out for me now.

 

[Outlawmws]

SNIP
New Post: Anybody got an idea how to hide a cutting torch in my garage so my wife doesn't see it? SNIP

Wow, I can't remember the last time SWMBO was more than about 6-7 ft inside my garage... (Side door to the house, washer/dryer on one side, dirty laundry baskets on the other, and right next to the dryer, a wire shelf rack with bulk TP and paper towels flat against the side of the dryer...) Been like that for most of the past 23 years...

I can put anything that will fit anywhere else, and she would never notice. heck I hide Xmas presents for her out there for months with no problem at all...

 

[NCCheesehead]

Here is mine I picked up at a yard sale. Its looks more like trolley track as it is about 3-1/4" tall. I blasted and painted it with some por15 while drinking beer killing time in the shop. The por15 has held up to the beatings for about 1.5 years

 

[Hiball]

Sorry but you are the one that needs to reread it. At the point in the thread when the "terrorism" issue was brought up (#4) nobody had even mentioned going onto railway property. It's only three posts, so go read them now ok.

I thought i remedied this issue in Post #58? Its Not Illegal to Buy Railroad Property, Its only illegal to if you Trespass onto Railroad Property and Acquire it Unlawfully. "I".. "Me".. "Hiball" was the one who passed the Information on to Prevent anyone from getting a Wild Hair and trying to find a Piece of Scrap in or around Railroad Property. I would hate to see someone get in trouble over something Trivial, Railroads hands have been forced on these issues do to all the Lawsuits. As i stated in #58, My Response was Pre-emptive.. I shared a story in regards to some Donkeys stealing Copper wire, Which effectively put the signals in Fail-safe Mode (all Red). Obviously.... that is More serious than sneaking into a yard and stealing a Scrap piece of Rail but its still stealing. If thats your Cup of tea and that makes some of the members feel like Men.. Knock yourselves out. How bout we see some more pics of Railroad Track made for Hammering? Yes.. Please.

 

[Hiball]

New Post: Anybody got an idea how to hide a cutting torch in my garage so my wife doesn't see it?

The Trick is to make her think its for building her something.. Use the Heat to twist her up some Hanging flower baskets Rods etc... Seriously though.. I dont think i could function without my Oxy/Acetylene Torch, I use mine Quite Regularly.

 

[LSU]

Thanks, Hiball -

Not a bad idea. I've used the "Honey, I've got this idea and this is why I bought this tool" excuse before - - -

Around the time my kids were being born I used the kids as a reason to buy a whole bunch of wood working tools so that I could build a changing table, children's table with chairs and a a bookshelf or two.

I think I managed to buy a table saw, band saw,a plunge router, biscuit joiner, an early edition power saw (8" Delta) and a planer. I still have all of these and it has been about 24 years since the first build. Oh, I forgot that I also bought a 220v air compressor and a Devilbliss lacquer spaying gun to finish it all.

I suspect I could have gone to Ethan Allen and bought the furniture for cheaper than the tools but I had a great time building them all and I got a like a mileage out of the furniture.

Kids are grown and the furniture has been given away to friends and relatives but I still have the tools and used them to build playgrounds, playhouses, etc.

Now, if I could have only figured out 24 years why I needed a 1' piece of track for the changing table, then I would have never started this thread.

Also, if I had stolen the 1' piece of track 24 years ago, I'm sure the statute of limitations would have run, assuming I had not gotten caught.

Aw, just kidding, I wouldn't have stolen it.

Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone on how to find the track.

Now everyone, go build something for some kid.

 

[blueflame6]

Nails like that are usually used around here on telephone/power poles. I've never seen one on a RR tie.

Outlawmws, got a few pics of my nails. The RR ties were so rotted I pulled them out with a pocket knife, along with a couple of spikes. I just thought they were curious at the time ('76 ish). They range from around 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" long, some with external extruded dates some with internal dates. All older than me............

 

[jhelrey]

I watched a few guys weld new track together. It is a cool process. They have a stone pot with basically gun powder and metal in it. They light it and put the cover on it. It flows over the track and welds it into one piece. They use a special tool and grind the welds down.

 

[Outlawmws]

Outlawmws, got a few pics of my nails. The RR ties were so rotted I pulled them out with a pocket knife, along with a couple of spikes. I just thought they were curious at the time ('76 ish). They range from around 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" long, some with external extruded dates some with internal dates. All older than me............

These are mostly nails my MIL got for me at an antique store. I had a couple probably from yard sales or flea markets.

 

[GRX]

I watched a few guys weld new track together. It is a cool process. They have a stone pot with basically gun powder and metal in it. They light it and put the cover on it. It flows over the track and welds it into one piece. They use a special tool and grind the welds down.

It is actually Thermite not gunpowder. Look up "Exothermic welding".

 

[ekeller]

I got the privilege to work a tie train a couple years ago and was told by the track inspector that..."The EPA had banned the railroads from purchasing any more creosote covered ties, they could in fact still use any pre-purchased or already stock they had in supply". Occasionally I'll see (smell) a gon full of Creosote ties in the yard but the majority off track being laid secured by concrete ties of late. I never try and purposely lie to anyone here, so I will try and re-confirm..... Meanwhile just because you see some ties hit the ground doesn't mean theyre not pre-purchased or stock ties.

The rr I work for hauls uncoated ties from a Coopers plant to another plant to be treated and then back. About 25 gons a week every week.